StarCraft® II

Mengsk = Amon? (Potential spoilers)

Posts: 1,044
Was just going through the Master Archives, finishing off achieves I missed, and felt like watching the final cutscene after I beat The Reckoning. While viewing, several things stuck out that produced this thread: Could Mengsk be Amon?

Proof:
Hybrids: The Dark Voice said some hybrids were his "greatest creations". Mengsk is producing hybrids.

Final HotS cutscene:

"You are by far my greatest failure, Kerrigan"

"I made you into a monster"

These quotes resound with Narud's quote that the Zerg have served their purpose and are nothing more than a broken tool.

The Artifact: Why else would he have it? Sure it may have been to stop Kerrigan, but maybe he had some other purpose.

In conclusion, there is question as to why Mengsk even was there in the first place, and how Kerrigan killed him. If Mengsk really is Amon, then Arcturus Mengsk must have been some "dormant" form. The Artifact was used to power him up, but he was still weak in his human form.

Post your thoughts.
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Posts: 280
I once speculated that Mengsk was Amon or serving Amon as well, based on WoL. He appeared to be pulling everyone's strings the whole time.

Tychus appeared to have been given orders to kill Kerrigan when he was released. But how would Mengsk know that Tychus would get that chance, unless he was in on the whole artifact thing going on? And if he knows all about the artifact, which was apparently used to resurrect Amon, then maybe he was working for Amon in some way. Compound this with the fact that he is clearly building hybrids, and Mengsk becomes a major suspect in Amon's conspiracy.

Yet Narud could have been directing everyone in WoL, including Mengsk.

There was a lore panel a while back in which the writers seemed to suggest that Mengsk didn't know that Tychus would get the chance to kill Kerrigan - he had Tychus working as a general-purpose spy and gave him his orders to kill Kerrigan only when the opportunity arose, not before. That was right after one of the writers said something along the lines of, "Uh oh, I think this is a plot hole."

The writers also said at one point, "Someone at the Dominion knows what they're doing." They could be talking about Narud, of course, but maybe not.

So it is still possible that Mengsk knew quite a bit about what was going on with Amon, but since he was killed (at least he appeared to be killed), it seems unlikely right now. I only wish he had said more before he was killed.

As for "I made you into a monster," I have also asked that question, and the usual answer is that he did make her into a monster - by leaving her on Tarsonis and/or training her to be a killer, not by actually making the Queen of Blades.
Edited by Torloch on 5/14/2013 5:05 PM PDT
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Posts: 345
The Artifact: Why else would he have it? Sure it may have been to stop Kerrigan, but maybe he had some other purpose.

Emil Narud have stolen Xel'Naga artifact in Flashpoint and probably brought him to Mengsk

Mengsk is just using Narud to produce Hybrids. He don't know what Narud really wanted to do, just gave him all the resources and laboratories.
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05/14/2013 09:58 PMPosted by Existor
The Artifact: Why else would he have it? Sure it may have been to stop Kerrigan, but maybe he had some other purpose.

Emil Narud have stolen Xel'Naga artifact in Flashpoint and probably brought him to Mengsk

Mengsk is just using Narud to produce Hybrids. He don't know what Narud really wanted to do, just gave him all the resources and laboratories.


This, because Mengsk was desperate to find a way to defeat Kerrigan, and he would turn to anyone who could promise him a solution. It's just that Narud was killed before he had a chance to turn on Mengsk.
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Mengsk isn't Amon, because he got cooked by Kerrigan. Point, blank and period.
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Posts: 2,952
Mengsk isn't Amon, because he got cooked by Kerrigan. Point, blank and period.


But perhaps Mengsk has not "tasted death," just like Tassadar. Maybe Mengsk underwent some sort of unseen transformation in all those years we didn't see him, like he was secretly imbued with the artifact's energy and what Kerrigan cooked was just a shell. What irony it would be if Kerrigan flies across the universe only to see that Mengsk is at the end of it all!
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Posts: 26,121
Mengsk isn't Amon, because he got cooked by Kerrigan. Point, blank and period.


It was too quick and painless. I had expected Kerrigan to rip out his intestines and strangle him with it, although if that was the case, Blizzard would have had to given HotS an "M" rating...
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Posts: 1,936
I realize this game borders on fantasy, but you guys really are off-the-bender with this Mengsk/Amon noise.

He calls Kerrigan his greatest failure, because he was schooling her to be his number one assassin, and she turned on him.
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Posts: 280
I find this exchange from 2010 BlizzCon to be very interesting:

-- 20:37 -- Q. [Man #9]: Hi. I was just wondering what Mengsk’s actual plan for Tychus was, given Raynor had to go through just to get to Kerrigan.

Chris: I think it pays, Mengsk had been fighting Raynor for years, to a standstill. Different battles, hit-and-run tactics, and he could not make this rebel go away. So he used things like the media to try and paint Jim as a has-been and things like that. But essentially with the Kerrigna threat, you know, well technically… Hold on, let me compute. I think you stumbled upon a giant plot hole... Let’s talk this through, the family; if Mengsk let Tychus out of prison before the Zerg invasion began…

Brian: Indead, Why did he do that? Well I know my version of the events. [laughs]

Chris: Pull this off, I’m very depressed.

Brian: Well, to me again, Mengsk is a chess player. He is a mastermind, but not, I want to make clear, you know, sometimes people say “Oh, this guy’s a mastermind, so yea he saw all the moves coming, he saw everything, all of it.” And we’re not saying that. He can’t see the future, and he’s not the source of all plots in the StarCraft universe, just a lot of them. But as Chris mentioned, Jim Raynor was the biggest thorn in his side. Like he you know, per the press conference at the beginning of Wings of Liberty, he thinks that Jim Raynor is the worst thing that could happen. But he’s smart enough to know he can’t just assassinate the man, that would just turn him into a martyr. So, he needs to “destroy” Jim. And it seems to me, that as soon as he realized he had this guy in jail, he had Tychus Findlay, that’s a perfect opportunity to put him in the suit, which is the gun to his head, and then unleash him on Jim and see what happens. You know what I mean? If the Zerg hadn’t shown up again, if Kerrigan hadn’t rolled on out of Char, you know, there’s a good chance that within six months, Mengsk would have found an opportunity to use Tychus to destroy Jim in some other way. It was a fishing line. It was, “I’m going to throw this hook out there.” There’s only one fish in the pond, and then, all of a sudden, there’s another fish in the pond and it’s like, “Wow, this is great!” It was a very good thing for Mengsk.


So Mengsk isn't the mastermind behind everything. He didn't know that Kerrigan was going to be de-infested until it happened. It is kind of humorous to imagine Mengsk sitting there saying, "Kerrigan is about to be de-infested? Wow, this is great! Better get Tychus on the line." But apparently, that is exactly what happened.

But as Metzen seems to admit, the writers did a pretty poor job of communicating this to us - he even calls this a "giant plot hole." Based only on what we see and hear in the game, it is perfectly understandable for us to think that Mengsk is the mastermind behind everything that is going on. All the evidence seems to point that way.
Edited by Torloch on 5/16/2013 12:00 PM PDT
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Posts: 7,830
So Mengsk isn't the mastermind behind everything. He didn't know that Kerrigan was going to be de-infested until it happened. It is kind of humorous to imagine Mengsk sitting there saying, "Kerrigan is about to be de-infested? Wow, this is great! Better get Tychus on the line." But apparently, that is exactly what happened.


It isnt like the way you are saying it. You see Arcturus previously tried to attack kerrigan with a large force, and failed. He isnt going to risk his own men to try it again.

However, with this "magical" artifact, a large army may not be needed. Raynor is perfectly suited to go in, quickly use it, and leave, seeing how raynor has been doing similar operations against arcturus for a while now.

How could arcturus get Raynor to do this though? Well, he did find a way. If Raynor would be unable to pull this off, what did he lose? Nothing really, Raynor isnt in the dominion, and tychus was just a criminal.
Edited by Brathearon on 5/16/2013 2:03 PM PDT
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Posts: 91
The only problem with your theory is that Amon is supposedly still alive whereas Mengsk was killed off by Kerrigan.
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Posts: 280
It isnt like the way you are saying it. You see Arcturus previously tried to attack kerrigan with a large force, and failed. He isnt going to risk his own men to try it again.

However, with this "magical" artifact, a large army may not be needed. Raynor is perfectly suited to go in, quickly use it, and leave, seeing how raynor has been doing similar operations against arcturus for a while now.

How could arcturus get Raynor to do this though? Well, he did find a way. If Raynor would be unable to pull this off, what did he lose? Nothing really, Raynor isnt in the dominion, and tychus was just a criminal.


True - I don't think Mengsk found out about the attack on Char right when it happened. He found out before. I think he did influence Raynor to do it for him so that he wouldn't lose much if the attack failed. After all, how could Valerian just "borrow" half the fleet without his father noticing? Clearly he let Valerian take half the fleet and perhaps he deliberately tricked Valerian into taking half the fleet.

But the writers are trying to make it clear that Mengsk didn't set in motion the plan to de-infest Kerrigan. When he found out about what was happening with Kerrigan it was like a happy surprise ("Wow! This is great!").

Mengsk capitalized on the events of WoL, but he didn't cause them. Someone else did.
Edited by Torloch on 5/16/2013 3:07 PM PDT
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Posts: 26,121
So Mengsk isn't the mastermind behind everything. He didn't know that Kerrigan was going to be de-infested until it happened. It is kind of humorous to imagine Mengsk sitting there saying, "Kerrigan is about to be de-infested? Wow, this is great! Better get Tychus on the line." But apparently, that is exactly what happened.

But as Metzen seems to admit, the writers did a pretty poor job of communicating this to us - he even calls this a "giant plot hole." Based only on what we see and hear in the game, it is perfectly understandable for us to think that Mengsk is the mastermind behind everything that is going on. All the evidence seems to point that way.


True, and I believe despite Mengsk is gone, his past actions will be revealed more in LotV, and we'll find out what's been happening.

Mengsk may not be entirely stupid, but he never seemed to grasp the whole "love makes people do crazy things" concept, which was why he never understood why Raynor and Kerrigan fought so hard for each other.
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Posts: 103
I used to think Mengsk was working for Amon. That he actually was Amon never really crossed my mind. But regardless, this way of thinking was, for me, proved wrong when Kerrigan revealed Amon had died before her infestation, and when she said Narud/Duran was trying to bring him back for millennia. Mengsk may have been old, but not that old.
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Posts: 26,121
I used to think Mengsk was working for Amon. That he actually was Amon never really crossed my mind. But regardless, this way of thinking was, for me, proved wrong when Kerrigan revealed Amon had died before her infestation, and when she said Narud/Duran was trying to bring him back for millennia. Mengsk may have been old, but not that old.


Yeah, unless Narud killed Mengsk before WoL and simply took his place via shapeshifting...
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Posts: 103
05/28/2013 02:09 AMPosted by ragnarok
I used to think Mengsk was working for Amon. That he actually was Amon never really crossed my mind. But regardless, this way of thinking was, for me, proved wrong when Kerrigan revealed Amon had died before her infestation, and when she said Narud/Duran was trying to bring him back for millennia. Mengsk may have been old, but not that old.


Yeah, unless Narud killed Mengsk before WoL and simply took his place via shapeshifting...


But how does that lead to Mengsk being Amon? That's what I was saying: Mengsk couldn't have been Amon, he died before Mengsk was even born.
Edited by Greenmor on 5/28/2013 7:48 AM PDT
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Posts: 31
Mengsk is a man who would do anything for power and control, he is a man who used a zerg invasion to wipe out his enemies and forced one of his top officers to stay behind to ensure the zerg wipe them out. So we take that same logic, and believe that if Mengsk was offered a powerful and deadly bio-weapon (Hybrids) soldiers made of alien DNA and was fully under his control, he would take the offer.

It can be believed that Mengsk knew about the hybrids to an extent, but not in the fullest which implies why he has labs being supervised by Narud (Narud is Duran spelled backwards 0.0 ) and is creating these monsters. He refuses to see things in other lights, to see things other than how he would like them,
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05/28/2013 07:47 AMPosted by Greenmor


Yeah, unless Narud killed Mengsk before WoL and simply took his place via shapeshifting...


But how does that lead to Mengsk being Amon? That's what I was saying: Mengsk couldn't have been Amon, he died before Mengsk was even born.


It wouldn't make sense, and I don't think Blizzard will go THAT bizzare...
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Posts: 88
Amon died long befored Mengsk was born, nuth said
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06/16/2013 01:08 PMPosted by Justin
Amon died long befored Mengsk was born, nuth said


That's my point, but we still don't know enough about the guy yet...
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