StarCraft® II

Balance Patch

Developer
Posts: 143
Thank you everyone for playtesting and giving us feedback on the balance test map.

We wanted to let you know our thoughts after extensive testing on the balance test map, hearing your feedback, gathering pro level feedback, looking at the ladder stats, and watching the various tournament games around the world throughout HotS.

1. Pro level balance is looking great in all 3 regions.

2. Ladder data is showing no sign of imbalance at any skill level.

3. We think it's too early to be making changes to promote different types of play. Even at the pro level, ZvP for example has changed a lot within the last couple weeks which makes us think players still need time to explore the game.

4. Oracle/Burrow changes could be problematic as you guys bring up, and we really don't want to risk messing with a game that's already really solid. Especially since the game is still changing frequently without balance patches, we just don't think it's a good time to be exploring new options yet.

5. A change for ZvZ is still looking like it's necessary.

More specifically for ZvZ, we're starting to think:
- Defending against early Mutalisk harasses are so much easier now with the Spore change.

- Best case scenario, it'll be possible to not only tech to Mutalisks but other options as well.

- Worst case scenario, even if Muta/Ling/Bane is still the best way to play the matchup, it'll be easier to mix Infestors in due to Mutalisk offense being weaker and defense being stronger. Which means games that go to Mutalisk + Infestors will be more common compared to only mutalisks, and from this point onwards, there's potential that strategies can branch out to other units.

- We'd much rather go in smaller steps to address this issue rather than tweaking something big that does something so drastic that could cause problems in other matchups.

Therefore, we're currently looking at just doing the Spore Crawler change next week at the earliest.

We'd just like to point out once again that one of the major reasons that SC2 is looking better than ever right now is because we were able to incorporate our community in the development process. However, the game is definitely not perfect and there's always room for improvement so we will continue to do our best to loop everyone in our thoughts as well as future changes to the game, and thank you again for your help.
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Posts: 6,256
Yay
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ladder data is not showing any evidence of imbalance at any skill level? risky statement
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Posts: 1,659
Hoohaw! Let the meta game settle out! great decision!

(but give some love to some of the units in the game that are not used and chronically perceived as underpowered please)
Edited by Nordis on 5/9/2013 10:40 AM PDT
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Posts: 5,811
Yay
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Posts: 4,005
Awesome. You guys are doing great blizz :) I read somewhere the other day u guys are pulling ahead of dota on twitch views. Its because of the awesomne action packed games that are going on in the hots tournaments :)

keep up the good work. +1 loving hots so far
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Posts: 99
i approve
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Posts: 1,381
ladder data is not showing any evidence of imbalance at any skill level? risky statement


Truthfully, ladder imbalance would have to be at least more than a 60/40 ratio, and last for several weeks, and be analyzed to see if there actually is a problem or just simple learning going on.

Nice job Blizzard!! I'm glad to see that you guys recognize that things will change eventually and we'll have to adjust for that, but I'm really happy seeing you guys let things settle down for now.
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Posts: 891
It's good the response to the test map were addressed so quickly. I can't stand it when the blues remain silent.

And it's good that they're aware of the problems with issues of skytoss vs zerg.
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Posts: 1,538
I am all for lowering the research cost of burrow, but I think that perhaps the research time would need to be slightly increased to compensate, the reason being is that zerg players should not be able to easily deny expansions with a single burrowed zergling so early in the game.

With the oracle change.... I don't really see how the buff can cause issues. Static defense can still take care of oracles.

Blizzard still seems to be missing the point on how to address muta wars in ZvZ. Infestors have become useless against any zerg player with decent muta micro. Mutas are too fast and the fungal projectile is too slow to reliably hit. Plus, if you run out of energy and can't finish the muta off, they fly away and regenerate, and all your infestor energy was just completely wasted.

Buffing spore crawlers only gives Zerg away to postpone the muta aggression, not deal with it! Zerg still has no viable way of dealing with mutalisks on the battlefield. What do you expect us to do, blizzard... bring spore crawlers along wherever the army goes?

Also, Nerf widow mines already, FFS. IMO they need less HP so that terran players cant just walk them into armies without any support, burrow, and still get shots off.
Edited by DeadWombat on 5/9/2013 10:48 AM PDT
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ladder data is not showing any evidence of imbalance at any skill level? risky statement
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Posts: 894
plz leave the balance alone and address the damn technical issues already ( freezing most notably )
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Posts: 14,615
Blizzard still seems to be missing the point on how to address muta wars in ZvZ. Infestors have become useless against any zerg player with decent muta micro. Mutas are too fast and the fungal projectile is too slow to reliably hit. Plus, if you run out of energy and can't finish the muta off, they fly away and regenerate, and all your infestor energy was just completely wasted.

Buffing spore crawlers only gives Zerg away to postpone the muta aggression, not deal with it! Zerg still has no viable way of dealing with mutalisks on the battlefield. What do you expect us to do, blizzard... bring spore crawlers along wherever the army goes?


Nah what he says actually makes a lot of sense.
1 - maybe more possible to defend an early 3rd with smaller investment thanks to spore buff (instead of losing all your anti-air to lings and dying to mutalisks, the spores will do more damage during the fight and it may be enough to tip the balance. maybe)
2 - Even if the game goes mutalisk vs mutalisk, there's currently a point where if you stop making mutalisks you lose. He's trying to move that point and give the defender more leeway to diversify his tech just a little bit without dying.
maybe it opens up ground upgrades. maybe it opens up second spire. maybe it lets you get a small number of infestors out to hurt all of his mutalisks so that he can't fight you, so that you can do what you want. right now you can't do any of that or you lose the game.

at worst, nothing happens, but mutalisks have to be more careful. fine.
Edited by Oboeman on 5/9/2013 10:57 AM PDT
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Posts: 1,538

Nah what he says actually makes a lot of sense.
1 - maybe more possible to defend an early 3rd with smaller investment thanks to spore buff (instead of losing all your anti-air to lings and dying to mutalisks, the spores will do more damage during the fight and it may be enough to tip the balance. maybe)
2 - Even if the game goes mutalisk vs mutalisk, there's currently a point where if you stop making mutalisks you lose. He's trying to move that point and give the defender more leeway to diversify his tech just a little bit without dying.


Try defending a building hatchery at a new base without having the creep there to build spore crawlers first and see how hard it can be.

At its core, this is an issue of mutalisks having no reliable zerg counter. All blizzard needs to do is give zerg that reliable counter, and this whole thing wouldn't be an issue. Trying to force all these spore buffs and making zerg rely only on static defense for mutalisks is just flat-out silly.
Edited by DeadWombat on 5/9/2013 11:01 AM PDT
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at worst, nothing happens, but mutalisks have to be more careful. fine.

I don't know. This doesn't just affect mutalisks. Corruptor flybys will be way riskier!
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Posts: 7,826
I'm slightly disappointed about not having the burrow cost reduced; I liked the concept of making burrow more complimentary to early roach timings in ZvT rather than an investment that you really have to make it pay for itself since the 100/100 cost on top of the cost of the roaches for the timing is pretty significant so early in the game. I'll probably just stick to speedlings and banes instead of burrow roaches.

I hope the spore change does something, don't want to see Blizz resort to making its damage 15 +45 vs biological.
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Posts: 732
Every terran that looks at this "Great gob blizard, but let the game get figured out, i dont want to get nerfed"

Every zerg that looks at this, "WTF, how the hell are you not buffing zerg, and or nerfing terran, its not possible to beat them right now."

Every protoss that looks at this, "fking swarmhosts not getting nerfed.... grumble grumble grumble."
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Posts: 3,501
Every terran that looks at this "Great gob blizard, but let the game get figured out, i dont want to get nerfed"

Every zerg that looks at this, "WTF, how the hell are you not buffing zerg, and or nerfing terran, its not possible to beat them right now."

Every protoss that looks at this, "fking swarmhosts not getting nerfed.... grumble grumble grumble."

QFT :)
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