StarCraft® II

ZvZ made me quit Zerg

I had a lot of fun with Zerg and I still like the race a lot, and I really appreciate all the coaching and mentoring you guys gave me, but the ZvZ "game" has made me quit this race. I just can't stand it anymore. As a novice player I feel like having 1/3rd of my matches being a macro-less rush-fest just isn't helping me learn the game... but more important than that, I just don't enjoy it. SC2 is a game which the objective is to have fun. I have fun in TvT I do not have fun in ZvZ.

I remember when I was climbing the gold ladder w/ all of your advice I would occasionally get into ZvZ matches where my opponent just quit right at the start of the game. I remember thinking to myself "heh, he hates ZvZ that much?" Now I'm right there with them.
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I like ZvZ. It employs a kind of rushed mode. I NEED this by this time, attack at this time to delay this, i NEED to take out this and get here by NOW.

I like it. It's ok.
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I hate rush mode. It forces the game to be an all-in. Either you commit to early aggression you cause enough damage to be ahead or you lose.. or you defend vs early aggression you either hold and win by getting ahead or take too much damage and then you lose.

It's so annoying how it all relies on one good baneling hit within the first 4 mins of the game or w/e. hate it.
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it forces you to be good at microing your banelings, even if you're not attacking.
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I hate the match-up as well. I was wondering if there is a way to keep a baneling from blowing itself up? Aside from forcing it to run around.
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Look here's an example.
http://drop.sc/341247
/edit (btw this was Vs Random so I didn't even know it was a ZvZ I was going to do an all-in build until I scouted him)

And just so you know this isn't just basic QQ... I'll let you know ahead of time. I won the game. So I'm not QQ'ing over a dramatic loss...

All I'm saying is watch this replay, and tell me that it's different from other ZvZ's (ie they aren't all just like this) and look me in my e-eye and tell me ZvZ is in a good place. I don't think me nor my opponent had fun this game you can tell by our frantic clicks on the field during engagements etc it just isn't fun.. it's a stressful lame fight.

Probably the only reason he lost that game is that he missed half my drones with his baneling hit. That's probably the ONLY reason.
Edited by MrPaz on 6/9/2013 10:22 PM PDT
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I feel you bro very hard.... ZvZ is a nightmare, I just had 4-5 zvz in a row.... I just want to quit the game all together haha, the worst part is when I lose to 6 poon even though I know what I have to do to defend... but it's just bs how stupid the match up is no matter what.
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Oh and regards to the replay: no I don't cheat. I found that proxy by pure chance.. i was going to sneak around and was like "holy $*# there's a base here!"
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06/09/2013 10:28 PMPosted by Lightsaga
I feel you bro very hard.... ZvZ is a nightmare, I just had 4-5 zvz in a row.... I just want to quit the game all together


Well if you're not having fun anymore... however I'd say give a race switch a try before you just quit the game. i did and it renewed my fun. My terran game right now is probably only high silver level, and I expect to have a rocky start when the new ladder comes online, but honestly I think in the long run I'll benefit more from knowing how to play another race. I can just bounce back to Zerg too if I feel like bringing my A-Game but I'm dedicating a lot of time to playing Terran and trying to slowly learn the race.

I should have went with Toss though.
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If I had to choose between ZvZ and ZvT I would choose ZvZ, trust me. In diamond ZvT is a nightmare ! Mines everywhere.. They're worst than banelings.
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If I had to choose between ZvZ and ZvT I would choose ZvZ, trust me. In diamond ZvT is a nightmare ! Mines everywhere.. They're worst than banelings.


I honestly have a very easy time vs terran... simply because I don't go ling/bling/muta, makes it a lot less stressfull believe me =p
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It's not my favorite, but it beats the hell out of pvp, and a lot of tvt (esp with hellbat drops ). I just find 1 base play so boring.

It's also faster paced, which helps (for me).

If it was all match ups i'd probably get bored, but 1/3 is ok. Honestly the thing that kills me is roach vs roach, or muta/muta
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I strong dislike ZvZ simply because it seems like everyone early pools now. Ppl would rather just take the risk and get the game over with. TvT and PvP don't really have to worry about baneling type issues where one wrong click and kaboom goes your entire army. Imagine for a minute if you told Terran and Protoss players they could no longer wall off vs zerg. The riots would be hilarious. That's ZvZ every day
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ZvZ is just a waste of time..i play my placement this season with only 1 ZvZ and got a demoted even i won the placement, then i suddenly start think omg if i continue ladder i cant quit the game like a boss which i did on unrank game..and in the end i leave my league and go back unrank gaming again.(where i can play with higher level players instead of holding cheese and rushes in ladder.)
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I feel like having 1/3rd of my matches being a macro-less rush-fest just isn't helping me learn the game

They aren't macro-less.
Good macro skills as Zerg involve being able to keep up with production while watching an army that can vaporize and cost you the game the second you look away.

I like ZvZ, almost as much as ZvT.
Edited by Fawxkitteh on 6/10/2013 1:07 AM PDT
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Honestly, for me.. ZvZ is the only matchup where:

a) I don't care about the outcome
b) Winning feels hollow and ungratifying
c) I don't get angry when I lose
d) I don't watch the replay, cuz I don't care

I just get through them as best I can.
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ZvZ is my best match up :P
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I feel like zvz is the best mirror since the spore buff. Mutas have the proper role of map control. I still feel muta is the best opening for a macro game. 8 to 10 mutas can keep your opponent blind allowing you to play greedy and transition to roach/hydra/infestor and eventually gain an advantage due to better econ allowing you to catch up on the roach count . Zvz is a huge macro game once you get pass the ling/bane phase
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you hate rushes?

ZvP = macro, macro, macro, push with SH/queen/viper (spread creep)

ZvT = macro, macro, macro, push with ling/bling/muta/ultra/brood

ZvZ = anything... what do you want to do? burrowed roach harass / ling/muta / hydra infestor.

ZvZ is the only match up where I can build any unit during the course of the game
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ZvZ is good for micro skills, Just remeber upgraded lings will win the game :D maybe some roachs to :D
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