StarCraft® II

Zerg Viper: Useful or Useless?

I haven't used it much myself, nor do I see it used much. What do you guys think of this unit? Personally I think it is kinda weak, and while the cloud is cool, it isn't very big and you would need to have at least 4 vipers (I would think) in order to actually cover most of the army and allow it to do some damage. I've seen it compared to the defiler from BW, but honestly, it is incomparable. I'd rather have plague over a small radius of green stuff that makes units' (in that SMALL radius) range down to melee. It seems very easy to micro out of. For terran, stim; for toss, blink (for stalkers). Also, the cloud (from the defiler) was VERY useful at times. Another perk of the defiler, it can burrow. Personally, I think the radius should be much bigger, and units under the "cloud" should be slowed and denied blink.

What do you think? I think it is a cool unit and can be useful, but it just doesn't have the tools to be one. Any ideas to make it useful? Or is it plain useless?
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I uses vipers all the time. In PvZ I use vipers to "Come over here" Colossus and blind the stalkers so my hydras could rip them to shreds.
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I haven't used it much myself, nor do I see it used much. What do you guys think of this unit? Personally I think it is kinda weak, and while the cloud is cool, it isn't very big and you would need to have at least 4 vipers (I would think) in order to actually cover most of the army and allow it to do some damage. I've seen it compared to the defiler from BW, but honestly, it is incomparable. I'd rather have plague over a small radius of green stuff that makes units' (in that SMALL radius) range down to melee. It seems very easy to micro out of. For terran, stim; for toss, blink (for stalkers). Also, the cloud (from the defiler) was VERY useful at times. Another perk of the defiler, it can burrow. Personally, I think the radius should be much bigger, and units under the "cloud" should be slowed and denied blink.

What do you think? I think it is a cool unit and can be useful, but it just doesn't have the tools to be one. Any ideas to make it useful? Or is it plain useless?


Very useful in competent hands.
Useless if you just suicide them.

Most of my trouble comes from Blinding Cloud/Ultra/Bling/Ling and/or Roaches.
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useless
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I use them every time I get. They are extremely useful against: death balls, mech, tanks, thors, colossus, and high priority air units. It makes it much easier to pull units into your army to pick them off one by one and then if you're tired of waiting to attack a fortified area you can blind them up and rush right in.
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I uses vipers all the time. In PvZ I use vipers to "Come over here" Colossus and blind the stalkers so my hydras could rip them to shreds.


Couldn't they just blink out of there? Also, if they had a lot of stalkers, you would need quite a bit of vipers wouldn't you?
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I haven't used it much myself, nor do I see it used much. What do you guys think of this unit? Personally I think it is kinda weak, and while the cloud is cool, it isn't very big and you would need to have at least 4 vipers (I would think) in order to actually cover most of the army and allow it to do some damage. I've seen it compared to the defiler from BW, but honestly, it is incomparable. I'd rather have plague over a small radius of green stuff that makes units' (in that SMALL radius) range down to melee. It seems very easy to micro out of. For terran, stim; for toss, blink (for stalkers). Also, the cloud (from the defiler) was VERY useful at times. Another perk of the defiler, it can burrow. Personally, I think the radius should be much bigger, and units under the "cloud" should be slowed and denied blink.

What do you think? I think it is a cool unit and can be useful, but it just doesn't have the tools to be one. Any ideas to make it useful? Or is it plain useless?


Very useful in competent hands.
Useless if you just suicide them.

Most of my trouble comes from Blinding Cloud/Ultra/Bling/Ling and/or Roaches.


I trust what you are saying is true, considering you are in top 50 master 1v1 and play a lot of zerg, but do you have any good videos showing that they are "Very useful in competent hands."?
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I use them every time I get. They are extremely useful against: death balls, mech, tanks, thors, colossus, and high priority air units. It makes it much easier to pull units into your army to pick them off one by one and then if you're tired of waiting to attack a fortified area you can blind them up and rush right in.


If you were to run in to a terran player who went mmm, thors, and vikings, or maybe just mmm and thors, wouldn't your vipers get sniped?
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Great vs T mech, great vs P in general.

Unsure about ZvZ but pretty sure they aren't that great.

Vs bio they can be used to snipe dropships or an occasional fungal + blinding cloud combo but not that great as bio can kite hard.
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They're a great unit in the proper situation, but very niche.
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Great vs T mech, great vs P in general.

Unsure about ZvZ but pretty sure they aren't that great.

Vs bio they can be used to snipe dropships or an occasional fungal + blinding cloud combo but not that great as bio can kite hard.


Yeah, I don't think they would be the greatest in zvz, you never know though.
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I use them particularly in ZvT, as blinding cloud can reduce army comps heavy on hellbats to such little range blings can completely roll over them without a fight.
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Vipers are very good units. They are battle changers. Colossus wanna sit behind the protoss army and deal their damage, but you pull them forward and snipe them... then all he ahs is gateway units (hydras kill them quickly).

Blinding cloud and be a good ability also. he gets you in a choke, then cloud the whole choke from his army back with 3-4 clouds and his army walks to your army without dealing damage. Or siege tanks, cloud the tanks and then push his army cuz the tanks cant see anything and become useless units.

The viper is a great unit, although you need a few for them to be used effectively in a fight, but zergs good in number... not like you expect 1 of any unit to do something and win the game. :)
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not like you expect 1 of any unit to do something and win the game. :)


true, very true (unless it is a mule -.-)
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Unsure about ZvZ but pretty sure they aren't that great.

I like them in ZvZ.
I've pulled Ultras up cliffs in Ultra vs Ultra battles.
Pulled Broodlords into IT/Queen/Spore.
And I'm pretty sure they're effective against Roach/Hydra, or Abducting Infestors.

They're rather difficult to use, they require more care in positioning than most spell casters, and without extra buildings nearby to consume they can be over produced or run out of energy.

I haven't played with them too much, on account of them being Hive tech and requiring 10-60 seconds of consuming for the needed energy.
Edited by Fawxkitteh on 6/8/2013 12:37 AM PDT
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I make them in every zvp that makes it past 11 mins, and every zvt where they go mech
VERY useful to get rid of protoss robo units (collosus / immortals) and voidrays, as it pulls them and they get targeted by your army before they do much damage, as well as in zvt they help to engage tank lines / remove thors from army if you want your mutas to do damage etc.

Have to say it is probably the best unit zerg got in HotS

as for amount i usually like ~3-4 depending on the game situation, all with full energy help greatly in fights
Edited by Contend on 6/8/2013 3:51 AM PDT
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06/07/2013 04:32 PMPosted by EvilPenguin
I use them every time I get. They are extremely useful against: death balls, mech, tanks, thors, colossus, and high priority air units. It makes it much easier to pull units into your army to pick them off one by one and then if you're tired of waiting to attack a fortified area you can blind them up and rush right in.


If you were to run in to a terran player who went mmm, thors, and vikings, or maybe just mmm and thors, wouldn't your vipers get sniped?

Vipers have enough range to be useful; the least that will happen is that the MMM army runs up trying to snipe the vipers and you can blind them before they do(You cant get them all if it's a large group) and then by that time the group of MMM is next to your army so they either run away or get slaughtered.

Vikings will counter vipers but give a terran a reason not to get them by going mostly for ground units.

I see that you're having a lot of what-ifs when talking about Vipers, but all of them are negative what-ifs. Just think about what you can do with them instead of what can happen to them.
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I will honestly say that the viper has changed the z v p matchup for me from my least favorite in WoL to my most favorite in HotS. They work amazingly well in z v p, and in the right hands will absolutely make the difference in you winning and losing a lategame fight. Abducting colossus, archons, and void rays away from the death ball makes engagements all of a sudden go completely in your favor. Also, so many people discount how good blinding cloud, they make it so stalkers, immortals, colossus, etc can't even shoot at all until they retreat out of it. Not to mention blinding cloud will let you plow through photon cannons without taking a hit.

They are also extremely good in z v t if your opponent goes for mech. A lot of terrans claim that they counter it entirely, which isn't true, but they still do a very good job at destroying tanks and thors.
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its a unit which when you get you have to win in the next few minutes otherwise the counters destroy it
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Blinding Cloud can make ZERGLINGS counter sieged tanks.
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