StarCraft® II

Why the illogical Kaldir Mission?


There are dog breeds that have wings? Or 4 giant tusks? Or breeds that have no legs at all and move by slithering their body like a snake?

I wouldn’t mind a dog with wings, where do I get one? :p

The best I can offer you is this dog that looks like a mop:

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01846/komondor_1846708i.jpg


It is, it’s also completely and utterly unrealistic. Then again, as someone who studied biology extensively at uni, I’ve long since given up on stories being even somewhat realistic when it comes to things like evolution. Most people have NFI how evolution works and just spout the most stupid garbage possible and label whatever silly system they come up with as being evolution (or if they do, then they have no respect for realism). For some reason, evolution is usually some Pokemon-style changing of the self, not what it really is. Even when authors do feature evolution that is more realistic, they still usually feature Lamarckian ideas as a part of their model, which were thrown out long, long ago.

Uhm, I'm pretty sure SC's authors were using the general dictionary term of evolution, not the exact scientific theory.

The biology presented in SC isn’t even remotely possible (except for maybe a couple of things here and there), as speculative FTL travel could potentially be. E.g. while I loved Abathur as a character, his work is unrealistic rubbish from a biology standpoint. He did say a few generally realistic things, such as unnecessary complexity being bad, but unfortunately, thanks to the high proliferation of viral junk DNA and repetitive pseudogenes found in our genome, our genome is unnecessarily long and complex, so not even that was right. Same goes for the Overmind and his Kerrigan transformation. There’s also a million other unrealistic things to be found- living creatures that can travel through space and still live despite the temperature generally being around 3 degrees Kelvin, the multitudes of Zerg forms that are somehow one species etc.
I just go along with whatever the authors say, there’s no point nitpicking at it and expecting realism and respect for the scientific theories of our own universe. I’d have a breakdown a million times over otherwise. That’s where the fiction side of it comes in- I enjoy it as fiction, I don’t expect it to be realistic science-wise.

Unfortunately that's not a good argument for why you think there's a plot hole in SC1's manual.


That’s different to something that is considered a ‘place’, where beings can hang out in, or be travelled through, or that can be summoned and fired out of a spaceship.

You mean higher dimensions? The void is just referring to the dark templar's power source, which could be anything: solar radiation, vacuum energy, etc. It's also synonymous with regular material space.

Higher spatial dimensions don't exist, or if they do, scientists theorize that they'd have to be extremely small. But I'm pretty sure that FTL in SC uses Einstein-Rosen bridges (wormholes), a mathematically valid construct.


Or having one species being able to convert individuals of another species into being an individual of their own species, which is basically a feat of magic.

Ok, but for all we know, this was an extremely complex and arduous process, which is why the Overmind failed to assimilate the protoss. It wasn't until SC2 that we got an actual cinematic of such absurdity happening in real-time.


I’m simply pointing out that the SC universe has no respect for realism when it comes to other branches of science, such as biology, that there’s also forces in the SC universe that ignore and subvert what we know of the laws of physics, it would hardly be shocking if SC also had little respect for the theories found in the various branches of physics and didn’t feature a universe that is expanding like our own and instead featured a static star map. I think it’s folly to expect SC to be realistic.

I'm pretty sure people would be shocked to find out that galaxies & stars don't actually move in SC dude.
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I don’t see you being a stickler for reality when it comes to things like mutalisks, behemoths and leviathans being able to zoom around and live in space without freezing to death. Even if Blizzard pointed to the example of the only living creature known to survive a short time in space, the tardigrade- without entering a state like the tardigrade does, where it curls up into a ball and coats itself and its organs in protective sugars to be able to survive severe dehydration (in this state it’s effectively dead, only it can be revived, whereas there would be no chance of other animals being revived having done the same thing), then the Zerg creatures which travel space would simply have zero chance of survival. Especially considering that they’re vastly more complex than a tardigrade and travel throughout space for long periods of time, exposing themselves to varying degrees of different kinds of radiation.

First off, zerg floating in space is hardly SC's worst offender. While space is frickin freezing, it also doesn't transmit heat because it's a vacuum. What kills humans is the lack of oxygen and lack of pressure. You can easily imagine zerg using a fluid that won't boil in space that will insulate its internal organs. The real problem is radiation, something that would kill an organism no matter how quickly it heals, but we can asspull some exotic biological shielding for this.

The worst offender in SC1 has to be psionics, but at least you can't point to a specific law of physics and say that it's breaking it (no, levitating stuff is not a law of physics). My personal asspull is that psychics manipulate stuff around them by entangling atoms in their psionic organ (brain, nerve cords). Since atoms can also change into energy, this allows for kamehameha beams, or stuff like the archon merge.

In SC2, I can point to the surface area to strength relationship and ask you how the hell New Folsom's rods/pylons can support a planet let alone themselves witthout collapsing like spaghetti. The cinematic with the primal growing new eyeballs in 2 seconds is a giant f-u to the conservation of energy, but at least we can pretend that they're psionic or something and get this energy from elsewhere. Even though the whole point of primals is that they don't have a psionic connection, so it seriously stretches disbelief.


We don’t know that they do, thanks to it never being mentioned, and there being no evidence for the stars moving in Blizzard’s SC universe. For all we know, Blizzard’s StarCraft universe is set in a Big Crunch scenario (after all, the SC universe was created around the mid-late 90s, when Big Crunch scenarios were far more favoured by the scientific community), around the time where the universe has stopped expanding and is set to begin contracting in the future.

I'm sorry, but so many things wrong with this.

1) SC takes place in 2500 whereas Big Crunch wouldn't have happened for literally 100 billion years.
2) Stars don't stay still in a big crunch scenario. The expansion of space reverses and galaxies plummet back toward one another. This has absolutely nothing to do with stellar drift.
3) The idea that the sun stood still was debunked not in the "mid-late 90's" , but hundreds of years ago after we tracked the motions of stars over many years and it became obvious that the sun was a star.

Anyway, like I've been saying all thread, argument from ignorance is not a good reason for why you think there's a plot hole in the manual.


In this scenario, the positions of stars will be effectively static. There’s as much evidence supporting this as there is the stars moving in SC. Is this likely to be the scenario in SC? I doubt it, I’d lean towards the SC universe being like our own, where evidence suggests that the universe is still expanding, like you’ve been saying. On the other hand, there’s no evidence for this, so it’s impossible to say either way without making some sort of assumption without any foundation based on evidence.

No, just no. The existence of galactic spirals is pretty much all the proof you need that stars aren't static in SC. Galactic spirals are density waves, which means that the galaxy's stars have been moving.
Edited by Gradius on 7/5/2013 7:00 PM PDT
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First point of contention, Harvest of Screams:

On Kaldir, Protoss Starships and all other units and structures, armed with Plasma Shields and Plasma and anti-matter weapons, are frozen solid periodically by a Flash Freeze Storm.


The United States NASA Space Program has been designing space ships for decades which would perform better under the same conditions.
One such ship, the Huygens probe, landed on Titan and performed just fine under conditions below the freezing point of Methane, in the presence of Methane and Ethane rain and snow (flash freeze conditions).


GREAT FOR THEM!!! HOWEVER PROTOSS DOES NOT EQUAL NASA.
Fictional race that already has different methods of thinking and different forms of metal/technology ARE DIFFERENT FROM REALITY. Nothing is wrong with them being frozen.

Point 2: Shoot the Messenger. Lore contradiction.
Why not just fly an observer through the portal, even if you did in fact need the portals? That would be much easier, and you could...warp in an observer from Shakuras (since that's where they come from,) Just so you could then send it back...


It is mentioned Shakuras is out of range of normal communication. Specialized shuttles would be required too make the trip/match the warp.

"Why are we warping out so many carriers and void rays to Kaldir? Are they in need of assistance?"


One way only, warped in from their own ship/other planet take your pick.

Lol, the story behind that mission contradicts itself in so many ways your mind will reel just from trying to think about it.


Meh, There are people who get a kick out of 'lorelols' but some just get annoying.

Point 3, Enemy Within:
More contradictions. The Protoss Ship's onboard shield's between individual rooms are more powerful than it's tactical, external shields. After all, Queens can shoot down protoss Carriers in the previous two missions for God's sake, but Niadra, a Hero Queen, cannot shoot through the shields between individual rooms, a few meters wide, in the Enemy Within mission.


It's not a carrier. It's simply reffered too as a ship. Could be a ship of 'unimaginable scale'. I am aware of the fact that you down a mothership during the mission but if you pit one queen vs a mothership alone then she'll just die too the ship.

Again, the level designer is a complete moron.


Nope. Best level. Most fun.

Horrible authorship. Just ridiculously horrible.


Sounds like you need too unplug your computer.

Back in the Saddle and the Kerrigan contradictions.
Point 1, Ubber telepath, no telepath...
In Back in the Saddle, she must ask Raynor the question, "Where are the Umojans going?" As if she would not know. She's supposed to be the most powerful known telepath in the universe, yet she suddenly can't read the minds of basic Terran troops,


After being deinfested and having to relearn her powers all over again? Tell you what. shoot yourself in the feet. Become bed ridden and then try walking after 3 months. Have fun with that.

Gabriel Tosh and Nova, both supposedly weaker telepaths, are later seen using a voodoo doll to attack Tychus from a distance of 6 light years.


That scene was added to turn a rather dark creepy guy stabbing a doll into a something a bit more cheerful. Also Tychus was drinking so maybe he just had a coughing fit.

Point 2: Ubber telekinetic, no telekinetic.
But at the end of Back in the Saddle.....you guessed it...she can't simply pick Jim Raynor up and levitate him across the busted bridge....even though she performed vastly superior feats in both power and control throughout the mission and in subsequent missions a few hours or days later....


Same argument as before. She's relearning her powers I.e. fiddling with the orb machine and controlling zerg. She also has some measure of difficulty holding those two marines up while choking valarien.
So yeah, that's your argument dead. she slowly get's better!

It's a joke how bad the authorship and planning for these 4 missions really was.


No. It really isn't. It's called Gameplay and Story. Sometimes they don't go hand in hand. Sometimes you ask "why did my character get shot? He would've used his teleport power!"
DnD is a good example of this where player power is trumped by the story being told.

It's sad that 'people' like you have to troll others and say "oh this was terrible because it 'makes no sense'" when in reality it's perfectly fine!

I couldn't possibly imagine publishing something like that and actually charging money for it.


Well then good news for you. I can't imagine you ever publishing something, let alone justifying having to charge for it.
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@reanimation, perfect example of what I'm talking about. This guy here thinks that NASA technology surpasses protoss because SC is "different from reality":



The United States NASA Space Program has been designing space ships for decades which would perform better under the same conditions.
One such ship, the Huygens probe, landed on Titan and performed just fine under conditions below the freezing point of Methane, in the presence of Methane and Ethane rain and snow (flash freeze conditions).


GREAT FOR THEM!!! HOWEVER PROTOSS DOES NOT EQUAL NASA.
Fictional race that already has different methods of thinking and different forms of metal/technology ARE DIFFERENT FROM REALITY. Nothing is wrong with them being frozen.

Not sure if serious or trolling. Can never tell with people around here.
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07/05/2013 06:43 PMPosted by Gradius
Stop saying this plz. The protoss also blame themselves for killing Kerrigan in that same universe.


07/05/2013 06:43 PMPosted by Gradius
Nope. There are other people besides Raynor who deserve that honor. ;)


Well, I suppose you prefer if Raynor didnt do it anyway. Although it is pretty clear that he did.

07/05/2013 06:43 PMPosted by Gradius
But unlike you guys, I have the ability to say that a story is terrible, and yet still admit that I enjoy it


I can as well. Perhaps you missed my comments about SC1's terran campaign?
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LittleRaven ,your way of thinking is so incoherent and so illogical i won't even try to explain. Or maybe you are trolling ? Yea you are probably trolling.
Edited by HardCore on 7/7/2013 1:32 AM PDT
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@OP:

What I don't understand is why the Protoss have to incease their mental "talk" in order to contact Shakuras (this would be refering to the first mission where you have to kill the towers).

With all that superior technology, can't they just open a video feed with Shakuras and be like: LOOK! ZERG! HELP!

What I'm trying to say is, is why is it so hard for a race with such superior technology to send their homeplanet a signal? Granted it could take time but with the level of technology they're at, it would undoubtly be faster than those stupid towers.
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Simple, the missions were there for the sake of having protoss in the campaign.
The protoss is almost next to non-existent in HoTS campaign, and Blizz needed to do something to put more protoss in. Sadly, their wasted efforts resulted in serveral crappy missions and 'meh' storyline.

EDIT: About "Enemy Within", the most advanced race in the entire universe couldn't put even a single security camera or observer in their ship, lol.


Yeah. I mean, the whole part with the pointless slaughter of a bunch of colonists left a bad taste in my mouth.

Especially the fact that, storywise, Kerrigan could have just quickly slipped in, taken the zerg, and leave, leaving the Protoss none the wiser.
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Kal'dir is just better off not existing. It's almost like someone had a brain aneurysm and came up with the idea of having a planet freeze units, but ended up bullshytting everything else for the arc afterwards, and Blizzard went with it.
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@OP:

What I don't understand is why the Protoss have to incease their mental "talk" in order to contact Shakuras (this would be refering to the first mission where you have to kill the towers).

With all that superior technology, can't they just open a video feed with Shakuras and be like: LOOK! ZERG! HELP!

What I'm trying to say is, is why is it so hard for a race with such superior technology to send their homeplanet a signal? Granted it could take time but with the level of technology they're at, it would undoubtly be faster than those stupid towers.


In Brood War, Zeratul and Artanis didn't learn of Aldaris' insurrection from Raszagal until they got back from their expedition. This further supports the notion that Shakuras is indeed beyond normal transmission range.

07/18/2013 11:42 AMPosted by Iliya
Especially the fact that, storywise, Kerrigan could have just quickly slipped in, taken the zerg, and leave, leaving the Protoss none the wiser.


And have them show up later on screaming for blood at the worst possible moment, just like in Brood War... only this time, they would have come with a new massive fleet and may even have offered the Dominion assistance in disposing of their common enemy.
Edited by JohnnyZeWolf on 7/18/2013 5:38 PM PDT
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And have them show up later on screaming for blood at the worst possible moment, just like in Brood War... only this time, they would have come with a new massive fleet and may even have offered the Dominion assistance in disposing of their common enemy.


Considering all they were doing was colonizing a planet, letting them believe that they had driven the Zerg off would have left them feeling like they had won and would give them no reason to follow.

I still maintain this set of missions was pointless. And now, we got a ship full of Zerg on its way to Shakuras with even more of those things that aren't even aware that they're alone.

I at least hope we'll be able to kill that queen in HotV.
Edited by Iliya on 7/21/2013 3:39 PM PDT
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I still maintain this set of missions was pointless. And now, we got a ship full of Zerg on its way to Shakuras with even more of those things that aren't even aware that they're alone.

I at least hope we'll be able to kill that queen in LotV.


Either that or Kerrigan would order Niadra to stop killing the Protoss and come back to her...
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Considering all they were doing was colonizing a planet, letting them believe that they had driven the Zerg off would have left them feeling like they had won and would give them no reason to follow.

I still maintain this set of missions was pointless. And now, we got a ship full of Zerg on its way to Shakuras with even more of those things that aren't even aware that they're alone.


There is a difference between an event being pointless and it being a bad choice on a character's part.
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Considering all they were doing was colonizing a planet, letting them believe that they had driven the Zerg off would have left them feeling like they had won and would give them no reason to follow.

I still maintain this set of missions was pointless. And now, we got a ship full of Zerg on its way to Shakuras with even more of those things that aren't even aware that they're alone.


There is a difference between an event being pointless and it being a bad choice on a character's part.


Answer me this Bratheron:

Assuming Kerrigan had just taken Nafash's brood and left Kaldir without fighting the Protoss AT ALL, what do you think would have happened on the Protoss end once Shakuras got the news?
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There is a difference between an event being pointless and it being a bad choice on a character's part.


Answer me this Bratheron:

Assuming Kerrigan had just taken Nafash's brood and left Kaldir without fighting the Protoss AT ALL, what do you think would have happened on the Protoss end once Shakuras got the news?


Almost the same thing as they would do once zeratul talks to them about kerrigan, and/or when Niadra is discovered.

Also, i don't think there would be any news to give. There were still living zerg on the planet, they'd only report that they were leaving some time after nefash was defeated.
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Answer me this Bratheron:

Assuming Kerrigan had just taken Nafash's brood and left Kaldir without fighting the Protoss AT ALL, what do you think would have happened on the Protoss end once Shakuras got the news?


Almost the same thing as they would do once zeratul talks to them about kerrigan, and/or when Niadra is discovered.

Also, i don't think there would be any news to give. There were still living zerg on the planet, they'd only report that they were leaving some time after nefash was defeated.


Yeah but you also have to remember, by the time Kerrigan arrived on Kaldir, Nafash's brood had not yet adapted to the flash freeze.

Maybe the Protoss just expected the swarm to freeze to death, now that the commanding Broodmother was gone...
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Minor nitpick before I disappear, but it IS kinda sad that the Protoss didn't develop any means to protect themselves from the flash-freezes after being established there as a colony.

Whatever happened to those "orange shields" that were displayed in the HotS gameplay trailer, someone in development had the right idea but then Blizzard decided to drop that gimmick and just ended up making the Protoss look more incompetent then they already were.
Edited by Retloclive on 7/21/2013 5:09 PM PDT
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Yeah but you also have to remember, by the time Kerrigan arrived on Kaldir, Nafash's brood had not yet adapted to the flash freeze.

Maybe the Protoss just expected the swarm to freeze to death, now that the commanding Broodmother was gone...


Its possible, but I think it would raise more alarm bells when they do not hear from this research group than if they see the zerg suddenly leave when they are active again. From WoL (such as the colonists missions) they should at least be aware that they are active.

Minor nitpick before I disappear, but it IS kinda sad that the Protoss didn't develop any means to protect themselves from the flash-freezes after being established there as a colony.

Whatever happened to those "orange shields" that were displayed in the HotS gameplay trailer, someone in development had the right idea but then Blizzard decided to drop that gimmick.


I dunno, i get the feeling that the original idea for the mission was that the protoss were completely unaffected by the flash freeze (till you destroy specific buildings) while you had to deal with it (until you got the adaptation).
Edited by Brathearon on 7/21/2013 5:01 PM PDT
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Its possible, but I think it would raise more alarm bells when they do not hear from this research group than if they see the zerg suddenly leave when they are active again. From WoL (such as the colonists missions) they should at least be aware that they are active.


Yeah, I believe once enough time passed without hearing from them the Protoss would go to Kaldir to check things out, and then know what happened.
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07/21/2013 03:21 PMPosted by Iliya
Considering all they were doing was colonizing a planet, letting them believe that they had driven the Zerg off would have left them feeling like they had won and would give them no reason to follow.


Or it would have been seen as a sign of weakness on her behalf and thus led the Protoss to believe the Queen of Blades was now vulnerable for an attack, which was true. Nafash didn't come to Kaldir to fight the Protoss and she did exactly what you wish Kerrigan could have done - flee. As a result, the Protoss hunted her down.

I still maintain this set of missions was pointless. And now, we got a ship full of Zerg on its way to Shakuras with even more of those things that aren't even aware that they're alone.


It will keep them busy for a while.
Edited by JohnnyZeWolf on 7/21/2013 6:21 PM PDT
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