StarCraft® II

Early roach pressure into expand and mutas.

Posts: 39
Below are a few strats ive been trying in all matchups with relative success, i will try and explain the overall plan:

14 gas
14 pool
@ gas finish drones
@ pool finish Queen + roachwarren + ling speed
make a couple lings while queen is done
@ queen finish inject and start banking

when inject is finished make roaches and move out for early pressure.
behind this early pressure take an expand and drone up

Now either my pressure does some significant damage and i can pump roaches to victory, or i can keep the pressure up for as long as i can while i expand, double upgrades and tech to spire.

Please critic my build, i havent mastered it and only started playing hots again couple days ago, but so far with a 12 win streak it seems to work quite well against all matchups.

http://drop.sc/341563
http://drop.sc/341564
http://drop.sc/341565
http://drop.sc/341566
http://drop.sc/341296 - worst cannon rusher ive ever seen.
http://drop.sc/341562
http://drop.sc/341561
http://drop.sc/341560
http://drop.sc/341557
Edited by HMTehz on 6/11/2013 2:30 AM PDT
Reply Quote
Posts: 10
I like the idea and will give it a go in the silver/gold/platinum leagues.
Reply Quote
Posts: 605
Seems like a worse version of the build Khalador went over on TL

Which is

15p
16 h
16 gas
17 OL
18 scouting lings
drone up to 28
Roach warren
3x OL
12 roaches until 52 supply

Anyone who is semi competent at scouting should identify the lack of expo early roach warren and be able to react. But if its getting you wins then go for it.
Edited by Anxiety on 6/11/2013 6:00 AM PDT
Reply Quote
Posts: 2,770
I'm not intending to insult or anything, but any build that doesn't get your natural up quickly as Zerg is a HUGE gamble against most players once you move higher up the ladder. Your attack is essentially an all in, but players at gold level are not very good at handling aggression and macroing, so that is most likely why it has the feel of a pressure move.

The build in Anxiety's post is a lot better as it gives you a stronger economy to fall back on and thus makes a muta transition much stronger.

All of that being said, its actually not a bad idea to focus on refining your current build and executing it as crisply as possible before moving to the 2 base version. The reason is that it is easier to macro efficiently on a lower economy, so I would personally consider your build a kind of training before moving to a slightly more difficult one.

Again, hope none of this offended, I actually really enjoy reading posts from people who try to do their own styles, its just that in this particular case, the idea already exists in a much stronger form.
Reply Quote
Posts: 39
thanks guys, im actually trying to experiment with one base openings for the reasons comadiroma said, its alot easier to macro one base vs 2 and lower leagues do seem to have trouble dealing with early pressure and crumble to multi pronged attacks.

however as i progress and refine the build i want to try and change this meta thinking that zerg needs to expand quickly, since BW its been the logic that zerg needs to stay one base ahead, which i agree but i want to experiment with more one base openings and playing zerg more aggressively.
the whole hatch before pool and drone up just doesnt seem to be my style, rather than follow everyone else and do the economic stuff i want to see how far i can get off these one base agression into expand builds. i have no doubt 2 base is better but im curious if little tweaks here and there can make one base viable.

Thanks for input TeHz

EDIT: the one base play was inspired by my experiance on the korean ladder and seeing how aggressive they are. it sounds silly but my mission is to change the meta and find a new way to approach zerg early game.
Edited by HMTehz on 6/11/2013 9:12 PM PDT
Reply Quote
Posts: 15,183
EDIT: the one base play was inspired by my experiance on the korean ladder and seeing how aggressive they are. it sounds silly but my mission is to change the meta and find a new way to approach zerg early game.


No offense, but you'd need to get out of gold/plat/diamond to do that. You can do really silly stuff and still win, that wouldn't fly in anything resembling a good game.

For example, in any zvz, you should just straight up die. 1 basing is a huge tell, they should send in the overlord once they get suspicious, scout roach warren, and 1base roachs are a build order loss if he just builds mass lings.
Reply Quote
Posts: 39
No offense, but you'd need to get out of gold/plat/diamond to do that. You can do really silly stuff and still win, that wouldn't fly in anything resembling a good game.

For example, in any zvz, you should just straight up die. 1 basing is a huge tell, they should send in the overlord once they get suspicious, scout roach warren, and 1base roachs are a build order loss if he just builds mass lings.


i know it sounds silly. but i still think one base plays are underused. ZvZ you obviously want to scout before expanding, you would never FE without scouting the your opponent is also doing a FE.

it a big ask to get people to understand, or even take it seriously, but i want to be differant. i dont want to be stuck in the meta game. hell i know one basing sucks, but thats why i want to use it, to see how far it can go.

on a random note, WTF is up with bronze/silver level cannon rushes? this is the third ive destroyed in 2 days.. they wall me in, let me macro and never take an expand? i was dicking around till i got bored and tried to get 200 pop of pure ultras.

http://drop.sc/342721 - long game, just for lolz.

EDIT: surely theres viable one base strategies, regardless of roaches, lings or banes. has anyone truely had an in depth look at one basing in HOTS? thats what im trying to get people to do here, i know its completely the opposite of the meta, but i dont think people have even considered to give it a chance.
trust me i know how silly it sounds, and i know alot of you higher league players will laugh at it, but i want to find a way to make it work.
Edited by HMTehz on 6/12/2013 2:20 AM PDT
Reply Quote
Posts: 2,224
No offense, but you'd need to get out of gold/plat/diamond to do that. You can do really silly stuff and still win, that wouldn't fly in anything resembling a good game.

For example, in any zvz, you should just straight up die. 1 basing is a huge tell, they should send in the overlord once they get suspicious, scout roach warren, and 1base roachs are a build order loss if he just builds mass lings.


i know it sounds silly. but i still think one base plays are underused. ZvZ you obviously want to scout before expanding, you would never FE without scouting the your opponent is also doing a FE.

it a big ask to get people to understand, or even take it seriously, but i want to be differant. i dont want to be stuck in the meta game. hell i know one basing sucks, but thats why i want to use it, to see how far it can go.

on a random note, WTF is up with bronze/silver level cannon rushes? this is the third ive destroyed in 2 days.. they wall me in, let me macro and never take an expand? i was dicking around till i got bored and tried to get 200 pop of pure ultras.

http://drop.sc/342721 - long game, just for lolz.


No one in masters scouts before expanding in ZvZ. If you know how to deal with everything and have decent control even something like hatch gas pool is pretty safe vs everything that can be thrown against you. The 10p gas openings are definitely the hardest to hold but its all doable.

Even then if you dont want to hatch first, 15p 16h gives you a very safe build which is almost identical to hatch first in economy. Honestly the only thing i think is weak about that opening is that the creep in your natural is less advanced, so it can be harder to get a spine crawler down vs a 14/14 in time. I find 15h works out a tad nicer for early aggression too as both injects always pop simultaneously.

Roach openings in ZvZ at least in my opinion are very weak. It is not possible to build any dangerous amount of roaches off 1 base in time. 2-3 spine crawlers and zergling production will hold even the most dedicated 1 base roach ling all ins with ease. There were successful roach openings earlier in sc2, for example

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Destiny%27s_ZvZ_%28vs._Zerg%29

However people are much better at holding them than they used to be and the increasing map sizes in sc2 hurt roach openings a lot. Even for a macro opening securing a natural off a 1 base roach opening can be a huge pain. 3 roaches will block the ramp sure but you need another 8 odd roaches at least to push groups of speedlings out of your natural. It is also extremely unforgiving, if speedlings get into your main your slow roaches will not be able to catch them all before they do huge damage to your drone line.

Expanding early with banelings is far safer and much better for aggression. For 1 base all ins a simple 14/14 into banelings off 1 base saturation is still a pretty successful build.

ZvP and ZvT this could be more successful.

Gate expand. Protoss scouts 14/14, protoss should probably 3 gate expand or SG expand but most of them are very greedy and will probably try to 1 gate expand anyway. If they do that they will have a very hard time surviving. Forge expand, protoss should probably just build a couple more cannons and take free win. Plenty of prior examples in this matchup at least

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=317003

ZvT iv found 14/14 aggression is far more viable than it has any right to be. Hypothetically any terran should be laughing his way to the victory screen vs this opening but a lot of terrans dont actually react to what they scout early; especially in lower leagues and if the terran does not react a standard expand into hellions is again very hard to hold with.
Edited by SliTaz on 6/12/2013 2:34 AM PDT
Reply Quote
Posts: 39
thanks slitaz, i will try some variations with a 15 hatch or 15 pool and see how it goes.

well....... so far my build is doing well, i incorperated some banes in my ZvZ games and it seems to work.

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj12/anthony5640/WINNING_zpsc2716208.jpg
Edited by HMTehz on 6/12/2013 6:02 AM PDT
Reply Quote
Posts: 2,224
thanks slitaz, i will try some variations with a 15 hatch or 15 pool and see how it goes.

well....... so far my build is doing well, i incorperated some banes in my ZvZ games and it seems to work.

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj12/anthony5640/WINNING_zpsc2716208.jpg


Nice win streak :)
Reply Quote
Posts: 10,069
No one in masters scouts before expanding in ZvZ.

I haven't seen very many people scout before expanding in ZvZ, and I just dropped into that league limbo of diamond players dropping to gold or whatever.
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]