StarCraft® II

Why doesnt zerg have an anti-armor unit?

or if they do, please tell me which unit it is and why since no units deal extra damage to armor (no spines do not count, their structures, not units.
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dont think so, they donbt really need, it they swarm the other race with pure numbers.
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guess thats true
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Does the Ultralisk count? Considering it does 44 DMG with ups.

The corrupter as well. It does bonus to massive, I don't know any massive unit that is not also armored. Although there are non massive armored units.

It's not in game for multiplayer but the aberration does bonus to armored.
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I double checked the Ultralisk and the infestor both used to do bonus DMG to armor. However they in previous patches modified then to do flat DMG now instead of a bonus mechanic.
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I would say we at least have the best anti-light unit in the game. Then HoTs came along...
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What about infesto.....oh wait, 6 to 10 nerfs later. Nevermind.
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The good news is Zerg does have an anti armor unit.
The bad news is it can't move and is 150 minerals.
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Ultralisk does 35 flat with +3 per upgrade. So 44 with L3 upgrades.

It used to do 15 +20 armored until December 5th when they patched it in the beta.
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We have no specific anti armor unit. And we only vaguely have a single anti-light unit (baneling which has !@#$ty AoE).

Ultra and infestor used to be anti armor, but that was aparenty too OP... Even though terrans have marauders and healbats (anti armor and anti light, respectively) and toss are packing stalkers and colossi (same deal).

We HAD aberration in campaign, which was freaking awesome IMO, but then it was decided to be not what we needed... ~.~ Like a T1/T2 melee anti armor which could move without blocking most all other ground units, thus complementing their use in swarm tactics was too OP. But a low cost, multi use anti air/ground mine with massive AoE that attacks from burrow is ok?
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We also *had* the lurker. Which was obviously overbuffed and given to Terran instead.

But it was largely useless because zerg isn't meant to counterbuild. Just unit spam.

I mean, every top level player tells you the same damned thing. (Build anything and don't engage their army at all costs; no matter what you build, it'll lose in a straight up fight.)

You know the race is borked when the best way to kill immortals is to build roaches.

Lings, roaches and mutas were all equally good at fighting pretty much anything as long as they were controlled properly. Mech and colossi were obviously the big exception to the rule.

Now that we can actually counter colossi and trade cost efficiently with mech, I don't see how anything's gonna change to give zerg an armored counter. You'd have to actually remove swarm hosts or nerf them as badly as infestors to make a situation where you'd want to build an armored counter (because even a zerg armored counter is unlikely to be a hard counter).

TBH, SC2 should just remove the armored moniker altogether. All it does is create a wonky balance where marauders are way too good vs stalkers, roaches are bad at everything and can't be countered in zerg mirrors, and the immortal can't be balanced against other armored units due to not being as spammable and having no fancy micro to manage.
Edited by SirZergalot on 6/13/2013 7:28 PM PDT
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we don't counter with units, we counter with style

You can also that we don't counter units, we counter attack!

zing!
Edited by Oboeman on 6/13/2013 8:00 PM PDT
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06/13/2013 07:26 PMPosted by SirZergalot
You know the race is borked when the best way to kill immortals is to build roaches.

This is not the best way to kill immortals. It is very specifically the best way to kill immortals when your tech is way behind due to massive investment in drones, a third hatchery, and taking gas extremely late compared to a protoss player. When your economy is superior to the protoss, but your tech is awful, then flooding lings and roaches is the best option simply due to lack of other options. If you go for a fast tech build, you have the option of using hydralisks, mutalisks, or even swarm hosts. Killing immortals with roaches is a choice forced by lack of tech, don't pretend that it is the best option.
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06/13/2013 06:22 PMPosted by Braunz
dont think so, they donbt really need, it they swarm the other race with pure numbers.


Zerg doesn't have strength in numbers unless you go pure lings. Queens take up supply (unline mules and Chronoboost) and every unit is 2 supply or more except for lings.
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06/13/2013 06:22 PMPosted by Braunz
dont think so, they donbt really need, it they swarm the other race with pure numbers.

I have been criticised for comparing SC2 to broodwar before, but the 1 supply hydralisks (much more about swarming than roaches...) did explosive damage (which basically means double damage vs. armored targets). So I have no idea where the idea that swarming means we don't need a damage bonus vs. armored comes from. Do you have any reason to think that "swarming" is a good replacement for a damage bonus vs. armored units? In either case, zerg is not about swarming unless you do a sauron zerg play, which is extremely rare.
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Build Ultralisk, Don't forget to A click.
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^ thats something that protoss players love doing, only they have the most luck doing it.
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dont think so, they donbt really need, it they swarm the other race with pure numbers.

I have been criticised for comparing SC2 to broodwar before, but the 1 supply hydralisks (much more about swarming than roaches...) did explosive damage (which basically means double damage vs. armored targets). So I have no idea where the idea that swarming means we don't need a damage bonus vs. armored comes from. Do you have any reason to think that "swarming" is a good replacement for a damage bonus vs. armored units? In either case, zerg is not about swarming unless you do a sauron zerg play, which is extremely rare.


1. Armored was not a tag on BW.
2. Hydras did not do "double damage" to any unit, they did their normal damage to large units and 75% to medium and 50% to small. Also "normal" damage was 10, which means that they only did 7.5 damage to medium and 5 to small units.

Ultimately the idea that we need a specific unit with bonus damage against armored is silly, but if you really feel that you must have one, go play WoL and use the ultralisk. It had bonus damage against armored. Of course in HOTS it does that same "bonus" damage to everything, so yea...

Although this is actually very correct.

You know the race is borked when the best way to kill immortals is to build roaches.

This is not the best way to kill immortals. It is very specifically the best way to kill immortals when your tech is way behind due to massive investment in drones, a third hatchery, and taking gas extremely late compared to a protoss player. When your economy is superior to the protoss, but your tech is awful, then flooding lings and roaches is the best option simply due to lack of other options. If you go for a fast tech build, you have the option of using hydralisks, mutalisks, or even swarm hosts. Killing immortals with roaches is a choice forced by lack of tech, don't pretend that it is the best option.
Edited by Comadiroma on 6/14/2013 7:08 AM PDT
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