Storyline makes no sense (spoiler)???

Posts: 564
Ok, I just really don't get it and am hoping someone else spends enough time searching about these things or on the forums here to make sense of it to me. The first SCII made sense. This one, however, seems to have a lot of things that just make no sense at all.

To keep this organized, here are some of the things that I don't get about this storyline. Keep in mind, if you have yet to finish the game, this WILL be a spoiler to you:

1. In order for Kerrigan to become a primal, she is told she has to be full of hatred, etc. It makes it sound as if she needs to be extremely malevolent and dark to survive the transformation. However, after she transforms, she is no less compassionate than before she transformed. At multiple points, she goes out of her way to ensure human's survive as she seeks her revenge on Mengsk. It just seems to me that her personality after the transformation is completely contradictory to what she was told it would do to her. That ties into the 2nd point...

2. In the end after killing Mengsk, she talks about losing her humanity. However, just before you started the final mission, while talking to Valerian, she agrees to go out of her way to ensure no civilians are harmed. How is that not an act of altruism? In what way has she lost her humanity? She still cares, loves Jim still, is more powerful than ever, so what has been lost? Her words just don't match up with the drama and compassion that she displays?

3. The Xel'Naga artifact affects her completely differently now than it did in the first one. How is it that the artifact suddenly changed how it affects her? No explanation, it's just now instead of letting off a wide-ranged blast like it did in the first SCII, it shoots out electric jolts at Kerrigan. Makes no sense.

4. Why did Zeratul let Kerrigan pound the sh*t out of him? He shows up to give her a message, and he just lets her pound him into the ground until he finally feels like showing her the vision. I get that he didn't want to kill her, but why not say something right from the start, or in some way try to defend yourself?

5. Dakara collects essences and seems to continually try to become more and more powerful. However, the guy basically looks like a crippled zerg, with one arm missing, replaced by a smaller stubby arm. For someone with his agenda and his accomplishments, why does he look like a deformed and crippled zerg? Why not grow back that arm to its full size?

6. Why does Kerrigan have to spend so much time regaining specific types of zerg? The only thing they lost was her, but suddenly now they have to go through a bunch of trouble just to make many of the same zerg she used to. It seemed ridiculous to me that the zerg started out so weak, and took most of the game to finally regain many units that she had well before SCII in the original SC.

---

Anyway, this storyline just seemed like it was very poorly thought out to me. It is riddled with contradictions. It is also extremely anti-climactic. The cut-scenes were all pretty shoddy, except for the one of her vs the shape-shifter. Other than that, nothing impressive. It would have been nice to see something of Amon in this one, especially considering we got a taste of him in the first SCII. When all that happened was "confront Mengsk, Mengsk tries to kill her (big surprise), she wins, kills him," I was like are you f*cking kidding me?! This is what I spent hours on end to see?!!!

I just really hope the final expansion makes more sense of things, because this one was a huge disappointment to me. It just seems like they aren't putting the thought into it like they did in the first SC.
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At multiple points, she goes out of her way to ensure human's survive as she seeks her revenge on Mengsk. It just seems to me that her personality after the transformation is completely contradictory to what she was told it would do to her.


But what would have happened had Valerian not requested that she spare them? What if Raynor wasnt even alive at the time?

06/16/2013 01:28 PMPosted by Ascendant
In what way has she lost her humanity?


She isnt human =)

3. The Xel'Naga artifact affects her completely differently now than it did in the first one. How is it that the artifact suddenly changed how it affects her? No explanation, it's just now instead of letting off a wide-ranged blast like it did in the first SCII, it shoots out electric jolts at Kerrigan. Makes no sense.


it isnt exactly different. It weakened her before and it does so now. It doesnt seem to be functioning at full power though, it may have been damaged from its previous use. It looks burned to me.

06/16/2013 01:28 PMPosted by Ascendant
I get that he didn't want to kill her, but why not say something right from the start, or in some way try to defend yourself?


kerrigan didnt wait for an explanation.

5. Dakara collects essences and seems to continually try to become more and more powerful. However, the guy basically looks like a crippled zerg, with one arm missing, replaced by a smaller stubby arm. For someone with his agenda and his accomplishments, why does he look like a deformed and crippled zerg? Why not grow back that arm to its full size?


he probably feels like the smaller arm is more useful.

6. Why does Kerrigan have to spend so much time regaining specific types of zerg? The only thing they lost was her, but suddenly now they have to go through a bunch of trouble just to make many of the same zerg she used to. It seemed ridiculous to me that the zerg started out so weak, and took most of the game to finally regain many units that she had well before SCII in the original SC.


Like zagara, they no longer felt that the queen of blades was around anymore and they were on their own. Some come easily, but others do not come until kerrigan becomes more powerful.
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1: Hatred, not malevolent, Zurvan was talking about her hate for mengsk.

2: She is no longer a human.

3: You are comparing gameplay to cutscenes/lore, and how do you know it wasn't re-purposed for Mengsk's personal use.

4: Kerri attacked the instant she saw him, he didn't really have time to grab her face first.

5: Dehaka just lost the arm, you would know this by clicking on it in supreme ("it is still bleeding profusely" -dehaka's arm)

6: When she was deinfested, the individual broods fractured and split, as well as fighting against each other, so the various species were split across the korprulu sector (with none having access to corruptors)
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But what would have happened had Valerian not requested that she spare them? What if Raynor wasnt even alive at the time?


That is besides the point. The fact of the matter is that if she had lost her humanity, she wouldn't have even cared to hear what they had to say.

She isnt human =)


I'm not sure if you're trolling here or don't understand the definition of humanity. It does not mean you *are* human, it means you have human qualities, especially in regards to compassion, which she displays on numerous occasions after her transformation. Take a look at the actual definition. I think you are confusing "humanity" with "anthropomorphic."

kerrigan didnt wait for an explanation.


Just re-watch the video. He stands there and stares at her for a few seconds, then continues to do so while she runs at him. He had at least 5-8 seconds to say or do something, yet he just stands there and WAITS for her to hit him.

Like zagara, they no longer felt that the queen of blades was around anymore and they were on their own. Some come easily, but others do not come until Kerrigan becomes more powerful.


She has Abathur. He STILL remembers how he created her as the Queen of Blades, yet he somehow lost the other coding for the rest of the swarm?

-----

I can't say I'm impressed with any of your responses. They seem more apologetic towards Blizzard's shortcomings than actual valid explanations. No offense, but you don't seem to have done anything other than look at things from a very shallow surface glimpse. None of it is believable in the least, as once you apply any sort of logic to the situations, they break apart.
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1: Hatred, not malevolent, Zurvan was talking about her hate for mengsk.

2: She is no longer a human.

3: You are comparing gameplay to cutscenes/lore, and how do you know it wasn't re-purposed for Mengsk's personal use.

4: Kerri attacked the instant she saw him, he didn't really have time to grab her face first.

5: Dehaka just lost the arm, you would know this by clicking on it in supreme ("it is still bleeding profusely" -dehaka's arm)

6: When she was deinfested, the individual broods fractured and split, as well as fighting against each other, so the various species were split across the korprulu sector (with none having access to corruptors)


1. Why would the hatred have any relevance if it wasn't something that would have an impact on her final transformation? That's like saying someone has to have a lot of flight experience for a particular position, but once you actually get the position, flight experience has absolutely nothing to do with the job in any way whatsoever. It doesn't make sense that hatred is what drives her through her transformation, but then after the transformation, she's just as compassionate and loving as ever. That is not a logical cause and effect scenario.

2. Like I had mentioned in my reply to the previous poster, you guys need to learn the definition of humanity.

3. Gameplay and cutscenes should coincide. I'm not even sure what your point was to that, as you seemed to indicate it should be expected that cutscenes may have no relevance or similarity to cutscenes which are supposed to add depth to the game. As far as re-purposing it, I could see that, but it should have been something that they filled you in on, rather than just completely changing how it worked with no depth to the situation.

4. Again, already covered this one in my last response.

5. I will have to take a look at that. I suppose it is something I had overlooked. However, it still doesn't make sense why he grew it back in a way that made him deformed, and he is with Kerrigan for quite some time, yet there is no change to it. So, he seems as if it's something that is permanent. Considering her original brood, which was inferior to the primes, could die and be reborn fully again, he seems inferior even to her previous brood, let alone the fact that he is supposed to be a prime that is superior to them.

6. Again, already covered this one. She has Abathur. That is all she should need for reforming any of the brood.
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I'm not sure if you're trolling here or don't understand the definition of humanity. It does not mean you *are* human, it means you have human qualities, especially in regards to compassion, which she displays on numerous occasions after her transformation. Take a look at the actual definition. I think you are confusing "humanity" with "anthropomorphic."


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humanity

"humanity may refer to: "

First thing listed, the human species.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/humanity?s=t

first definition

"all human beings collectively; the human race; humankind."

Just re-watch the video. He stands there and stares at her for a few seconds, then continues to do so while she runs at him. He had at least 5-8 seconds to say or do something, yet he just stands there and WAITS for her to hit him.


That isnt a lot of time. I've seen similar scenes (potentially hostile encounters) where a person approaches slowly and even waits for a MUCH longer period of time before explaining the situation.

She has Abathur. He STILL remembers how he created her as the Queen of Blades, yet he somehow lost the other coding for the rest of the swarm?


What are you talking about? Are you talking about when Abathur didnt recognize kerrigan?

6. Again, already covered this one. She has Abathur. That is all she should need for reforming any of the brood.


Oh i see what you are saying now. The thing is though Abathur's job isnt to control the swarm. The swarm as it is right now is fine and functional. The brood mothers are controlling the swarm separately from the queen of blades.

If you mean the unit specifically (like corruptor mentioned above) i suspect it is a similar problem like she had in BW.

06/16/2013 03:24 PMPosted by Ascendant
They seem more apologetic towards Blizzard's shortcomings than actual valid explanations.


Why would I do that? I didnt like HotS.
Edited by Brathearon on 6/16/2013 7:13 PM PDT
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Posts: 43,169
Ok, I just really don't get it and am hoping someone else spends enough time searching about these things or on the forums here to make sense of it to me. The first SCII made sense. This one, however, seems to have a lot of things that just make no sense at all.

To keep this organized, here are some of the things that I don't get about this storyline. Keep in mind, if you have yet to finish the game, this WILL be a spoiler to you:

1. In order for Kerrigan to become a primal, she is told she has to be full of hatred, etc. It makes it sound as if she needs to be extremely malevolent and dark to survive the transformation. However, after she transforms, she is no less compassionate than before she transformed. At multiple points, she goes out of her way to ensure human's survive as she seeks her revenge on Mengsk. It just seems to me that her personality after the transformation is completely contradictory to what she was told it would do to her. That ties into the 2nd point...

2. In the end after killing Mengsk, she talks about losing her humanity. However, just before you started the final mission, while talking to Valerian, she agrees to go out of her way to ensure no civilians are harmed. How is that not an act of altruism? In what way has she lost her humanity? She still cares, loves Jim still, is more powerful than ever, so what has been lost? Her words just don't match up with the drama and compassion that she displays?

3. The Xel'Naga artifact affects her completely differently now than it did in the first one. How is it that the artifact suddenly changed how it affects her? No explanation, it's just now instead of letting off a wide-ranged blast like it did in the first SCII, it shoots out electric jolts at Kerrigan. Makes no sense.

4. Why did Zeratul let Kerrigan pound the sh*t out of him? He shows up to give her a message, and he just lets her pound him into the ground until he finally feels like showing her the vision. I get that he didn't want to kill her, but why not say something right from the start, or in some way try to defend yourself?

5. Dakara collects essences and seems to continually try to become more and more powerful. However, the guy basically looks like a crippled zerg, with one arm missing, replaced by a smaller stubby arm. For someone with his agenda and his accomplishments, why does he look like a deformed and crippled zerg? Why not grow back that arm to its full size?

6. Why does Kerrigan have to spend so much time regaining specific types of zerg? The only thing they lost was her, but suddenly now they have to go through a bunch of trouble just to make many of the same zerg she used to. It seemed ridiculous to me that the zerg started out so weak, and took most of the game to finally regain many units that she had well before SCII in the original SC.

---

Anyway, this storyline just seemed like it was very poorly thought out to me. It is riddled with contradictions. It is also extremely anti-climactic. The cut-scenes were all pretty shoddy, except for the one of her vs the shape-shifter. Other than that, nothing impressive. It would have been nice to see something of Amon in this one, especially considering we got a taste of him in the first SCII. When all that happened was "confront Mengsk, Mengsk tries to kill her (big surprise), she wins, kills him," I was like are you f*cking kidding me?! This is what I spent hours on end to see?!!!

I just really hope the final expansion makes more sense of things, because this one was a huge disappointment to me. It just seems like they aren't putting the thought into it like they did in the first SC.


1. It's not about being full of hate. The only reason she even survive the pool on Zerus was because she wanted to avenge Raynor's "death".

2. She didn't lose her humanity, it was more that her rage was still driving her when Mengsk was alive, though that was over with when he died.

3. Unlike his son, Mengsk is not an expert on alien artifacts. He may not know how to use it as effective as Valerian did in WoL. To me, I still say the artifact may be able to deinfest her even in primal form, we just never got to find out.

4. Zeratul could already tell that Kerrigan was mourning over Raynor's "death" when he reached her. After what happened during the Brood War, she would expect him to kill her for what happened to Raszagal. It was better to let her get it out of her system first.

5. We don't know how long it'd take for his arm to grow back, that's all.

6.Because of her memory loss, she initially didn't know how to lead the swarm as effectively anymore.
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Posts: 564
Brathearon, for brevity, I’m going to refrain from quoting you and just respond to what you said. I appreciate your thoughts on the matter, however, in response to what you wrote:

None of your definitions for humanity are applicable. You used the collective definition rather than the individualized definition. The individual definition (one that would be used on one single person such as Kerrigan) is defined as, “the quality or state of being humane (compassionate),” or “human attributes or qualities.” Anyway, she still retained her human qualities, including compassion, love, etc., so the only thing that I can see that she lost is a frail human body for one reinforced as a primal zerg form. So again, I have to ask what “sacrifice” was made that Zurvan kept warning her of?

Here are some direct quotes from Zurvan that seemed pretty straightforward:

“if your rage makes you strong enough.” Not your will, not your love for Raynor, your rage.

“it comes at great cost.” What cost? The only thing it changed about her was it made her far more powerful. Other than that, she retained all her memories (unlike last time) and she still has her humanity (in regards to compassion). So, what has been sacrificed? What cost?

“is your hatred still strong enough to make the sacrifice?” Again, it is not about her willpower, determination, etc. It is focusing purely on her hatred, which alludes to the fact that her hatred is where she will draw her strength in the process of becoming a primal. However, if anything, she seems less violent towards humans AFTER the transformation than she was before.

----------------------------------------------------------------

As far as what you said about the scenes, just because other scenes you’ve seen were poorly designed as well, it doesn’t make that one better. Do you remember Zeratul in the first SCII? He had lightning-reflexes and held his own. In the scene in HotS, 5-8 seconds IS a lot of time for him to have had the chance to say something to her. He is extremely intelligent, so there is no reason he shouldn’t have reacted faster. It would be one thing if he knew she couldn’t harm him and just wanted her to blow off steam first, but you can tell with the sigh he let out when she grabbed him while he was on the ground that her blows did injure him to at least some extent. It doesn’t make sense that he just dealt with being her punching bag for a while.

------------------------------------------------

As far as the swarm, I meant what you had said about units. Abathur should still have their genetic designs, and they all come from larvae, so there is no reason they should have to re-capture them. Nothing was done to Abathur that would have made him forget them, so as soon as she had access to a hatchery, she should have been able to make any unit that Abathur could make, meaning any of the old ones she used to control while with him. I understand they did this for gameplay, but it doesn’t have storyline to flow with it. It just doesn’t make for a realistic scenario.
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Ragnarok, again, I appreciate your feedback as well. However, in response:

1. It's not about being full of hate. The only reason she even survive the pool on Zerus was because she wanted to avenge Raynor's "death".


See my direct quotes above, or even better, play through that part of the game again. You will see that it all revolves around her hatred and of making a sacrifice, of which none seemed to have been made. She lost nothing, only gained power.

2. She didn't lose her humanity, it was more that her rage was still driving her when Mengsk was alive, though that was over with when he died.


Her exact words are that she lost her humanity. It is in the final cut-scene.

3. Unlike his son, Mengsk is not an expert on alien artifacts. He may not know how to use it as effective as Valerian did in WoL. To me, I still say the artifact may be able to deinfest her even in primal form, we just never got to find out.


As I already stated, I know they may have very well done something to the artifact, or powered it differently. However, there was no depth given to the situation, which is what this expansion lacked overall in my opinion, depth.

4. Zeratul could already tell that Kerrigan was mourning over Raynor's "death" when he reached her. After what happened during the Brood War, she would expect him to kill her for what happened to Raszagal. It was better to let her get it out of her system first.


I get what you are saying, but like I stated in my last post, it doesn't all add up. When she attacks him, she doesn't seem to do so out of concern, but out of anger. What does she have to be angry with him about? She did everything to him and his race, they just attempted to defend themselves against her. In addition, as far as letting her get it out of her system, if he said what he needed to say right from the start, there wouldn't have been anything to get out of her system.

5. We don't know how long it'd take for his arm to grow back, that's all.


When he dies in the mission that you control him in, how fast does he respawn? Why does he still respawn with a disability? Rather than trying to justify the situation, really think about him, his role in the story, and how the zerg actually function, and you will see it doesn't make sense that he's walking around with a stub for an arm.

6.Because of her memory loss, she initially didn't know how to lead the swarm as effectively anymore.


Again, she has Abathur, and all zerg come from the hatchery's larvae. I already covered this in my last post, so I will leave it at that.
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1: The cost was that she became unable to ever be with her people or her friends, she is now one with the swarm (she even said that at one point).

2: Definition 2, on dictionary.com "The quality or condition of being human".

3: (responding to your last post), not much depth in BW either, basically do this. BW had 24 missions and 3 cutscenes to cover the entire brood war, HotS had 20 missions and 6 (or so) cutscenes to cover a period of a couple weeks. (she only spends a couple days on each planet)

4:(again, your last post) She has plenty to rage about, she just found out a couple days earlier the man she loved had been "killed". Considering her situation it isn't surprising she lashed out like that.

5: He heals, he doesn't respawn, and game =/= lore. Also, he isn't with her that long, only a couple of days.

6: but the ability to morph into the higher level units can only be unlocked by having access to such things as warrens, dens, spires, and infestation pits, also, she doesn't even spend that much time reuniting the swarm. AND, since when can abathur create species?
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06/16/2013 10:36 PMPosted by DarthCaedus
1: The cost was that she became unable to ever be with her people or her friends, she is now one with the swarm (she even said that at one point).


From how Zurvan was describing it, it seemed like it was a far greater cost. Your description of a "cost" is arbitrary, and would be more appropriately defined as personal preferences (ex. does she want power or to continue looking like a human). How was Zurvan to know that she didn't want the power, the swarm, etc.? Also, this still doesn't explain why her transformation focused on her hatred and rage, yet it did not seem to be a factor in what she became after the transformation.

2: Definition 2, on dictionary.com "The quality or condition of being human".


Lol, so many of you keep focusing on the one single definition that is the non-typical use of the word. Also, in what way does she lose being human? By becoming more powerful? By gaining a stronger control over the swarm? She loses nothing, she only gains power. She still has her human qualities, so attempting to use the above definition purely on her physical appearance is coming off as desperate to prove a point imo.

3: (responding to your last post), not much depth in BW either, basically do this. BW had 24 missions and 3 cutscenes to cover the entire brood war, HotS had 20 missions and 6 (or so) cutscenes to cover a period of a couple weeks. (she only spends a couple days on each planet)


HotS also cost $10 more (a 33% increase compared to BW). In addition, BW had plenty of depth. It covered Protoss delving into the Xel'Naga technology, depth into the dark templar, an in-depth conflict between the UED and and Terran Dominion, interaction between Raynor and the Protoss, and Kerrigan taking over the swarm. I'm at a loss as to how you felt it had no depth?

4:(again, your last post) She has plenty to rage about, she just found out a couple days earlier the man she loved had been "killed". Considering her situation it isn't surprising she lashed out like that.


Since this is now wandering off topic, I'm not going to bother with anything more than saying her reaction seemed directed at Zeratul, not a general venting, and it also doesn't explain why he just took a beating without defending himself at all.

5: He heals, he doesn't respawn, and game =/= lore. Also, he isn't with her that long, only a couple of days.


Wrong. There is even an achievement that reads "Don't let Dahaka die..." It doesn't say don't let him have to heal, it clearly says don't let him die. Besides, Kerrigan was able to quickly regenerate both herself and her brood way back in SC, so it doesn't make sense that such a powerful primal couldn't easily do the same. Of all the adaptations he would have scooped up, he passed up regeneration? I mean c'mon, really think about that.

6: but the ability to morph into the higher level units can only be unlocked by having access to such things as warrens, dens, spires, and infestation pits, also, she doesn't even spend that much time reuniting the swarm. AND, since when can abathur create species?


This is similar to the claim you made about Dahaka. Again, you have to play through the game again to see what I'm talking about.
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6. Why does Kerrigan have to spend so much time regaining specific types of zerg? The only thing they lost was her, but suddenly now they have to go through a bunch of trouble just to make many of the same zerg she used to. It seemed ridiculous to me that the zerg started out so weak, and took most of the game to finally regain many units that she had well before SCII in the original SC.


She got what she could on the run , her minions did the job for her (Abatur with the time and planning) and small zerg forces did the evolving/fighting.

What's truly illogical about this subject is that many times she could have gained control of feral zerg and be done with the matter in a couple of seconds ... but I guess that wouldn't be as action packed , kids need the action and time fillers , you know ....

Btw , don't try to use logic argumentation with Brathearon , I don't mean to insult the dude , but you cannot have a debate with him (Brathe , do not answer to my posts please)

PS: I agree with the rest of your post
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06/17/2013 06:42 AMPosted by HardCore
Btw , don't try to use logic argumentation with Brathearon , I don't mean to insult the dude , but you cannot have a debate with him (Brathe , do not answer to my posts please)


Posting this on every thread I post on can be considered harassment. Even if i dont report you, someone else can. If you dont want to read what i have to say, put me on ignore.

None of your definitions for humanity are applicable. You used the collective definition rather than the individualized definition. The individual definition (one that would be used on one single person such as Kerrigan) is defined as, “the quality or state of being humane (compassionate),” or “human attributes or qualities.” Anyway, she still retained her human qualities, including compassion, love, etc., so the only thing that I can see that she lost is a frail human body for one reinforced as a primal zerg form. So again, I have to ask what “sacrifice” was made that Zurvan kept warning her of?

Here are some direct quotes from Zurvan that seemed pretty straightforward:

“if your rage makes you strong enough.” Not your will, not your love for Raynor, your rage.

“it comes at great cost.” What cost? The only thing it changed about her was it made her far more powerful. Other than that, she retained all her memories (unlike last time) and she still has her humanity (in regards to compassion). So, what has been sacrificed? What cost?

“is your hatred still strong enough to make the sacrifice?” Again, it is not about her willpower, determination, etc. It is focusing purely on her hatred, which alludes to the fact that her hatred is where she will draw her strength in the process of becoming a primal. However, if anything, she seems less violent towards humans AFTER the transformation than she was before.


He is asking if it will be worth it. That is, if she has enough hatred to throw away her humanity. That is what zurvan means

Remember what happened with Stukov? How did he take not being human? He talked about how he could never go home, the same thing will apply to kerrigan.

As far as what you said about the scenes, just because other scenes you’ve seen were poorly designed as well, it doesn’t make that one better. Do you remember Zeratul in the first SCII? He had lightning-reflexes and held his own. In the scene in HotS, 5-8 seconds IS a lot of time for him to have had the chance to say something to her. He is extremely intelligent, so there is no reason he shouldn’t have reacted faster. It would be one thing if he knew she couldn’t harm him and just wanted her to blow off steam first, but you can tell with the sigh he let out when she grabbed him while he was on the ground that her blows did injure him to at least some extent. It doesn’t make sense that he just dealt with being her punching bag for a while.


it isnt about being badly written, it is an approprate way to approach such a situation. It perhaps would have been even better to hold his hands up, but zeratul is a protoss and the same etiquette (hands up) woudlnt apply.

Had zeratul attempted to defend himself, kerrigan would continue to attack even more violently.

As far as the swarm, I meant what you had said about units. Abathur should still have their genetic designs, and they all come from larvae, so there is no reason they should have to re-capture them. Nothing was done to Abathur that would have made him forget them, so as soon as she had access to a hatchery, she should have been able to make any unit that Abathur could make, meaning any of the old ones she used to control while with him. I understand they did this for gameplay, but it doesn’t have storyline to flow with it. It just doesn’t make for a realistic scenario.


Well like i said before, i suspect it is a similar reason that she was unable to do so in BW's zerg campaign. Just like she was no powerful enough to control the swarm, it may be possible that she isnt powerful enough to control complex zerg efficiently.
Edited by Brathearon on 6/17/2013 5:51 PM PDT
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06/17/2013 06:42 AMPosted by HardCore
6. Why does Kerrigan have to spend so much time regaining specific types of zerg? The only thing they lost was her, but suddenly now they have to go through a bunch of trouble just to make many of the same zerg she used to. It seemed ridiculous to me that the zerg started out so weak, and took most of the game to finally regain many units that she had well before SCII in the original SC.


She got what she could on the run , her minions did the job for her (Abatur with the time and planning) and small zerg forces did the evolving/fighting.

What's truly illogical about this subject is that many times she could have gained control of feral zerg and be done with the matter in a couple of seconds ... but I guess that wouldn't be as action packed , kids need the action and time fillers , you know ....

Btw , don't try to use logic argumentation with Brathearon , I don't mean to insult the dude , but you cannot have a debate with him (Brathe , do not answer to my posts please)

PS: I agree with the rest of your post


I see what you are saying as far as #6. I can see why she might need to round them up again. Though I get that they did it that way for gameplay, the thing is that she went to so many planets that had all the various types of zerg on them that I wouldn't have seen it as out of her way to simply grab the ones she needed. Nonetheless, of all my issues with inconsistent and/or contradictory storyline, #6 is the one that I saw as the easiest to be justified.

As far as what you said about Brath, I completely see what you are saying. He is not logical, and despite what he says, he really comes off as a Blizz apologist.
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Posts: 1,996
06/17/2013 10:00 AMPosted by Ascendant
Nonetheless, of all my issues with inconsistent and/or contradictory storyline, #6 is the one that I saw as the easiest to be justified.


You can justify almost anything , but that doesn't mean you can wash away the bitter taste of cartoonish naivety;

You can logically justify mass murder , that doesn't mean the specter of horror goes away , that doesn't mean it is right in any way.
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As far as what you said about Brath, I completely see what you are saying. He is not logical, and despite what he says, he really comes off as a Blizz apologist.


What would my motivation be for being a blizzard apolotist? Long before i posted on this thread I said i did not like HotS. I've given you similar reasons that other people have as well.
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06/17/2013 12:37 PMPosted by Brathearon
As far as what you said about Brath, I completely see what you are saying. He is not logical, and despite what he says, he really comes off as a Blizz apologist.


What would my motivation be for being a blizzard apolotist? Long before i posted on this thread I said i did not like HotS. I've given you similar reasons that other people have as well.


Brath, you've chosen to use one specific definition of humanity, when you know very well that it is not the typical definition, nor is "human" defined purely by physical characteristics. So, you are funneling down a definition to suit a case where it does not apply just to defend a faulty storyline.

You have attempted to justify why Zeratul went retard and let Kerrigan pound him. Sure, you can *try* to justify it, but it is still reaching for an excuse.

You justify with extraneous explanations to things rather than analyzing them in-context and from a realistic perspective. You seem like the type of person who would enjoy arguing with someone that the sky isn't blue, then delve into a pseudo-pedantic explanation of it.

I posted my questions on here to see if someone had heard some type of logical explanations from Blizzard, like maybe these things were delved into more detail in a book or online story from them somewhere. I wasn't looking for personal and unsubstantiated apologetics, which is all that you have presented thus far.

Many of the gaps you have filled in with your own incorrect and unobservant assumptions, like "maybe he felt the smaller arm was more useful." If you watched how he attacked in the mission you control him in, you'd see he doesn't even use his smaller arm, but only attacks with the larger one. This is consistent with all your assumptions from what I've seen... you just aren't very observant and are filling in the gaps with your own imagination.

As far as your claim that other people have given reasons, I have been able to easily dismiss every reason given, because none of them came from a reliable source from Blizzard, nor were any logically feasible. Sure, I may be over-analyzing the game in some people's eyes, but a part of what makes me enjoy a game is the story and depth to that story. In that regard, the game was severely wanting, and from the feedback I have received on here so far, it seems clear that Blizz made no effort to fill in the gaps.
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Brath, you've chosen to use one specific definition of humanity, when you know very well that it is not the typical definition, nor is "human" defined purely by physical characteristics. So, you are funneling down a definition to suit a case where it does not apply just to defend a faulty storyline.


That is the definition i see it commonly used. The reason those definitions are listed first is because they are more common. You will also notice that it is this definition that is used when you see "faith in humanity". That is why I emphasized how it was listed first.

It also makes perfect sense because she is no longer part of the human race. Like stukov, she can never go back to being normal. You will notice that when you use the most common definition of "humanity" you no longer have the issue with the story.

You have attempted to justify why Zeratul went retard and let Kerrigan pound him. Sure, you can *try* to justify it, but it is still reaching for an excuse.


There is a million reasons for why zeratul was extremely careful with why he was very hesitant, and it isnt something rare.

Many of the gaps you have filled in with your own incorrect and unobservant assumptions, like "maybe he felt the smaller arm was more useful." If you watched how he attacked in the mission you control him in, you'd see he doesn't even use his smaller arm, but only attacks with the larger one. This is consistent with all your assumptions from what I've seen... you just aren't very observant and are filling in the gaps with your own imagination.


So he doesnt use that arm to fight, maybe he uses that arm to reach into small places his bigger arm cant get to. Maybe the upkeep cost for maintaining it wasnt worth it to him, there could be many reasons. Perhaps that arm has a better concentration of nerves. Maybe that arm has an enzyme in it for more efficient "essence" collection.. Not everything about survival is the ability to fight.
Edited by Brathearon on 6/18/2013 8:47 AM PDT
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2. In the end after killing Mengsk, she talks about losing her humanity. However, just before you started the final mission, while talking to Valerian, she agrees to go out of her way to ensure no civilians are harmed. How is that not an act of altruism? In what way has she lost her humanity? She still cares, loves Jim still, is more powerful than ever, so what has been lost? Her words just don't match up with the drama and compassion that she displays?

Destroys multiple worlds wholesale when there was no need. Slaughters an innocent protoss colony for no logical reason instead of just leaving. Has to be convinced to spare civilians on Korhal...twice. I'm not convinced the artifact did the greatest job of restoring her humanity. Blizzard wants to have it both ways, and now her character is completely contradictory. Kerrigan is no better than Stalin or Hitler, only now she has transient spurts of humanity/compassion once in a while.
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@Ascendent, on the topic of Dehaka, GAMEPLAY =/= lore. Dehaka dies IN-GAME, he heals IN THE LORE.

@Gradius: The worlds she ordered destroyed were dominion production worlds, not exactly a major civilian target.

Killing the protoss was out of self-defense, if she ran from them then, they would have never stopped chasing her and would have got to her before she was powerful enough to resist them.
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