StarCraft® II

Uninstalling.

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Delicious tears
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I beat some gold level players and I have like 50 matches played total in the past year. How the hell is your macro "perfect"?
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Moving on. :P
Edited by Paladin on 6/27/2013 6:52 PM PDT
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You're absolutely correct, as are others in the thread.

I'll take the responsibility for my own shortcomings. I see now that my efforts are not enough to bring me to a good skill level. I have no basis to support the false self-appraisals I'd seen.

Moreover, I recognize that what it takes (or at least, what I think it takes) to improve as a Zerg/SC2 player is not a fun or rewarding experience for me, and that I likely don't have the desire or capability to do it. Fox and grapes if you like, but just.. giving up.

Sorry for the public outburst. Thread can be deleted or locked.

Aside from the obvious about perfection, that other people have already pointed out, I would just reexamine my goals. First, I would point out that while yes, being in gold league, in the grand scheme of things, means you're not very good at the game.

The problem with SC2 is that it is a very skill based game and the community has taught to consider anything below masters as horrible players, and that it is should be the goal of every player to always improve, to push yourself, train and practice tirelessly.

To me, this is nothing short of ridiculous. Not everyone has the capacity to reach masters or grandmasters, no matter how easy some people claim it to be (usually done by gamer elitists & trolls). We don't all have time to play 3-6 hours a day; we have jobs, other hobbies, kids, etc, and even if we did, not everyone can ever reach that level.

That is just the truth of it. If every person who played this game had the ability to become a gosu player, we'd all be in masters and above.

So why set yourself up for it? I personally don't have any interest in hitting that high. Of course it would be nice but I know I never will, nor do I even really want to. It doesn't even appeal to me. I play this game just for entertainment and fun.

I suggest you do the same, and suddenly not being a high league player is not so very upsetting, and you can just enjoy the game.
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Posts: 260
You're absolutely correct, as are others in the thread.

I'll take the responsibility for my own shortcomings. I see now that my efforts are not enough to bring me to a good skill level. I have no basis to support the false self-appraisals I'd seen.

Moreover, I recognize that what it takes (or at least, what I think it takes) to improve as a Zerg/SC2 player is not a fun or rewarding experience for me, and that I likely don't have the desire or capability to do it. Fox and grapes if you like, but just.. giving up.

Sorry for the public outburst. Thread can be deleted or locked.

Aside from the obvious about perfection, that other people have already pointed out, I would just reexamine my goals. First, I would point out that while yes, being in gold league, in the grand scheme of things, means you're not very good at the game.

The problem with SC2 is that it is a very skill based game and the community has taught to consider anything below masters as horrible players, and that it is should be the goal of every player to always improve, to push yourself, train and practice tirelessly.

To me, this is nothing short of ridiculous. Not everyone has the capacity to reach masters or grandmasters, no matter how easy some people claim it to be (usually done by gamer elitists & trolls). We don't all have time to play 3-6 hours a day; we have jobs, other hobbies, kids, etc, and even if we did, not everyone can ever reach that level.

That is just the truth of it. If every person who played this game had the ability to become a gosu player, we'd all be in masters and above.

So why set yourself up for it? I personally don't have any interest in hitting that high. Of course it would be nice but I know I never will, nor do I even really want to. It doesn't even appeal to me. I play this game just for entertainment and fun.

I suggest you do the same, and suddenly not being a high league player is not so very upsetting, and you can just enjoy the game.


I want to expand, or maybe just reiterate some of what Indie said. I think it's important.

Set a goal for yourself. Play for a few weeks, and reevaluate your goal. Also look at your expectations and think about why you want to be where you think you want to be. If you're gold, do you really want to be Plat? If you're Plat, will you be happy with staying Plat?

Plat might not be as achievable as it once was. Gold might be a good place to hang out for a few seasons. There's a huge huge gap between Plat and Diamond. Gold and Plat is somewhat of a gray area, or it used to be. Silver - gold is someone blurry also.

Also it's different for every race. A Plat Terran isn't the same as a Plat Protoss. So you have to actually watch other players and other replays, especially against mirror matches to try to figure out what playing at that level actually means. It's also remembering that Zerg is going to take 3x the work as P and T.

So you need to think about why you want what you want. Then you make sure you have smaller milestones so you can have achievements along the way. Like working the way to the top of your league first. That's usually my goal. Then see if you can carefully stay at the top of your league for a few weeks.

Anyway never, ever beat yourself up about what rank you are. The matchmaker is good but the ranking mechanism is only ranking you based on whatever is going on during the current season. I was consistently Plat in WoL and it says I'm silver now. Same thing happened to my brother.

I didn't say to myself, "urk I need to get back to Plat" I focused on beating silver. Because maybe silver is the new Plat. I have no idea because the leagues can get full, or more high level gamers.... and limited capacity. So don't even worry about it. Just do your best and set goals that are within your reach and then you can re-evaluate. :)
Edited by Paladin on 6/27/2013 6:53 PM PDT
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Posts: 1,939
Why oh why did I click to view that post.

Looks like thebats learned something new in his psych 201 class today and wants to talk about it with people he doesn't know again.


06/25/2013 04:42 PMPosted by tEhbAtZ
mathematical skills needed to do such complex programming


06/25/2013 04:42 PMPosted by tEhbAtZ
innate ability to understand just about anything.


Theoretical physics? No problem.


Nasareth, don't forget that a degree in CS automatically makes you an expert in all things RTS, and pretty much makes you a master of mathematics and theoretical physics. I imagine when batz looks at his unranked ladder games all he sees is lines of green machine code running down the screen like in the Matrix. He is basically Neo, and his opinion is fact.


If I could like this post twice, I would.
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Posts: 163
06/23/2013 11:41 PMPosted by TechNo
scout well, macro perfectly, defend perfectly


macro perfectly


I don't think I've ever seen a gold league player claim that their macro is perfect.

I promise that you don't macro, scout, or do anything anywhere near perfectly. You seem deluded towards your actual skill level. This kind of attitude is very bad for improvement, your ego is holding you back.

You should post a replay, I'd love to see what perfect macro looks like.


What about macro that is strictly better than our opponent's? I see that a lot. A lot of Zergs that I know have dropped down a league because of HotS patch Terrans. They have great macro. they are losing to people that are really a league level of skill behind them. I'm definitely not defending any Infestor patch Zergs, because I know they exist, but those guys all switched races as soon as they weren't OP anymore. Guess which race they switched to...
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Posts: 260
Ath. I know. I totally agree. I've said it in several posts. So I totally totally agree.

The leagues have different meanings to different races. It's very clear and very true. I've never seen it before, but man... it's obvious now.

Good post!
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06/27/2013 06:50 PMPosted by Paladin
Anyway never, ever beat yourself up about what rank you are.


High league players play a lot of games, and probably win less than 60% of their games.

Mid league players who quit probably play less games, and mistake 50% to be a terrible w/l record.


I really don't mind it. Ladder rank has never mattered to me, and even win:loss ratios don't bother me if I feel I was outplayed, outclassed, or encountered something I wasn't ready for. I really like losing to new/creative as a matter of learning something firsthand, and for someone that learns best by rote, losing to something repeatedly usually means i'll take note of it and do my homework.

The only losses that irritate me are the ones I felt I've seen a thousand times, practiced for, prepared for, responded/executed "properly" to, and still lost. The lesson there is that I'm probably not responding/understanding as "properly" as I'd hoped, and that I should wrap my head and abilities around that instead of blaming the races/game. Even if something is legitimately imbalanced, David Kim probably won't respond to it in a timely fashion that can be relied upon, so you might as well just count on yourself from the beginning.


What about macro that is strictly better than our opponent's? I see that a lot. A lot of Zergs that I know have dropped down a league because of HotS patch Terrans. They have great macro. they are losing to people that are really a league level of skill behind them.


While I agree that this is what was happening in most of the games that had frustrated me, my initial hyperbole/exaggeration regarding "perfect" macro play was still pretty far out of line. Macro is my strongest ability, but no aspect of my play is even close to perfect.

Even if it is better than my opponents', it may not mean as much to the outcome of the game as I want it to or hope that it does. A handful of marines in a medivac, hellbats tucked into crystals, or a bad widow mine split have been more than enough to prove that and make me question what I think is valuable as opposed to what truly is.

More importantly, it is what it is and if I take Zerg into these matchups, it's still my responsibility to bring home the win and learn my losses. I've never been one to complain about tiers in anything else in my life, so I can't really rationalize it here.
Edited by Hilary on 7/1/2013 6:03 PM PDT
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Posts: 1,997

The problem with SC2 is that it is a very skill based game and the community has taught to consider anything below masters as horrible players, and that it should be the goal of every player to always improve, to push yourself, train and practice tirelessly.

To me, this is nothing short of ridiculous. Not everyone has the capacity to reach masters or grandmasters, no matter how easy some people claim it to be (usually done by gamer elitists & trolls). We don't all have time to play 3-6 hours a day; we have jobs, other hobbies, kids, etc, and even if we did, not everyone can ever reach that level.

That is just the truth of it. If every person who played this game had the ability to become a gosu player, we'd all be in masters and above.


I would agree. I don't have the ability to play at the average masters player's skill level (if such an objective thing exists outside of results/ranking). I do however believe that I have the potential and capacity to work my way there in time if I'm earnest/patient enough.


So why set yourself up for it? I personally don't have any interest in hitting that high. Of course it would be nice but I know I never will, nor do I even really want to. It doesn't even appeal to me. I play this game just for entertainment and fun.


While I enjoy playing SC2, I wouldn't say I really have fun with it. The small amount of fun I actually have is mostly just using lots of speedlings, and others have articulated the "zerglings are now null nine times out of ten" culture shock in transitioning to HotS much better than I have.

I mostly play it to improve myself by proxy; the things I build for myself as a SC2 player benefit other areas of my life and help me be a better person. It's kitschy, but it's just how I approach everything I do.

The simplified inverse of that mentality would seem to be that if I'm doing poorly, it must be the reflection of a problem with my character. In this case was actually very accurate; my patience and analytical objectivity were just not there. It's good to identify that, but an even more important lesson would be that I should disconnect better because that's not always the cause.

In everything I've ever competed for, I've been okay with losses because I was always performing/competing at a "respectable" level and could understand the context of my losses to my betters. SC2 is probably the first thing I've ever pursued (besides math and swimming) that's actually been a real struggle to even make it to a point that I myself respect, which just means I should work harder.

Thankfully/Luckily, there were enough people around to point out that I'm not as good at keeping my ego in check as I'd thought. For that, I don't really have anyone to thank but you guys. :)
Edited by Hilary on 7/1/2013 6:07 PM PDT
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Posts: 1,181
I'm sorry this is happening to you but I don't understand.

You simply need to practice more and learn from your mistakes. Apparently you aren't learning from what you're doing wrong because it isn't working. Post replays and we can tell you what is wrong. You may need someone to tell you what you are messing up on :)
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06/27/2013 04:20 PMPosted by Sanlumiere
I was going to note that thebats doesn't actually refute any opposing viewpoint


The subject matters are far to complex to entail a full description of the said topics to the preponderance of proof.

Therefore, I am merely not wasting my time spoon-feeding you like a child. Instead I know I am right and am instead relishing in dancing circles around you. Its quite hilarious, actually.

I was hoping to find someone with the required intellect to have a reasonable discussion with. But, alas my fishing returned nothing but minnows this trip. Its too bad--I'll just have to try another fishing hole, as the Sc2 forums has only yielded one keeper thus far.
Edited by cOreX on 7/2/2013 6:53 PM PDT
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07/02/2013 05:35 PMPosted by cOreX
I was going to note that thebats doesn't actually refute any opposing viewpoint


The subject matters are far to complex to entail a full description of the said topics to the preponderance of proof.

Therefore, I am merely not wasting my time spoon-feeding you like a child. Instead I know I am right and am instead relishing in dancing circles around you. Its quite hilarious, actually.

I was hoping to find someone with the required intellect to have a reasonable discussion with. But, alas my fishing returned nothing but minos this trip. Its too bad--I'll just have to try another fishing hole, as the Sc2 forums has only yielded one keeper thus far.


oh hey, i know some of those words.
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Posts: 241
Thebats is corex huh, cool... love that the forum ignores your id not your name.

Anyway, don't quote thebats (sorry, corex) because then I have to see his intellectual acrobatics like spelling minnow as mino. That would destroy my perception of him and I will have to find someone else to look up to.

Unless his fishing trip returned a Japanese province :\
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Posts: 1,653
This thread has been up here for like 2 weeks, like seriously stop bumping it.
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07/02/2013 05:50 PMPosted by Sanlumiere
spelling minnow as mino

A spelling error? Welcome to the internet - you must be new here! Rofl. *shakes head*.
Edited by cOreX on 7/2/2013 6:58 PM PDT
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Posts: 260
Thebats is corex huh, cool... love that the forum ignores your id not your name.

Anyway, don't quote thebats (sorry, corex) because then I have to see his intellectual acrobatics like spelling minnow as mino. That would destroy my perception of him and I will have to find someone else to look up to.

Unless his fishing trip returned a Japanese province :\


It might be the headache I've had for two weeks, or how exhausted I am, but this was really, really funny to me tonight. So I really appreciate it.
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07/02/2013 07:16 PMPosted by Paladin
It might be the headache I've had for two weeks, or how exhausted I am, but this was really, really funny to me tonight. So I really appreciate it.

Glad you liked it :)
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K bye
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I'm glad I don't lose very much.
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