StarCraft® II

Global WCS Race vs Race Win-Rates

Posts: 678
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2013_StarCraft_II_World_Championship_Series/Statistics

Obviously the sample size isn't huge but interesting none the less. Keep in mind all the games are pros or very high level players competing for important WCS points and money/respect.

Terran is a little better in TvP with a 52.7% win-rate.

Protoss is slightly ahead in PvZ with a 51.3% win-rate.

TvZ is almost perfectly balanced in the WCS with Terrans holding a 50.3% win-rate.

For the very highest levels of play in SC2 the win rates are looking awesome! Obviously there are things that the game could improve on but I don't know how you could complain about these numbers. No race is even remotely close to dominating a MU.

Props to David Kim and the balance team this is impressive.
Edited by iBuyWins on 7/18/2013 12:46 PM PDT
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challenger leagues are in no way highest level. exclude challenger league and include GSTL and proleague. thats the highest level. click at challenger league groups for WCS america for example. there are master and low GM players in the group....
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07/18/2013 12:47 PMPosted by Kampfkoloss
challenger leagues are in no way highest level. exclude challenger league and include GSTL and proleague. thats the highest level. click at challenger league groups for WCS america for example. there are master and low GM players in the group....


You do know balance still affects high masters and low GM players right? It's them + all the better players.

Even if you don't respect the lower half of the players in WCS they're still good and they're playing there best to try and break out into the higher echelon so they can make a name for themselves.
Edited by iBuyWins on 7/18/2013 12:52 PM PDT
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07/18/2013 12:47 PMPosted by Kampfkoloss
challenger leagues are in no way highest level. exclude challenger league and include GSTL and proleague. thats the highest level. click at challenger league groups for WCS america for example. there are master and low GM players in the group....
At the same time, premier league and Code A/S level players make up such an incredibly small sample size that they're useless for balance purposes. There's only so far you can go with the 'it's not the highest level of play' argument before you're in the realm where pure skill can both stamp out and excacerbate imbalance.
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believe me blizz doesnt look at master players when doing patches and that is a good thing. pros are so much MUCH better than master or low GM players.

and statistically hundreds of games are more than enough to do mathematical statements!
Edited by Kampfkoloss on 7/18/2013 12:53 PM PDT
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07/18/2013 12:52 PMPosted by Kampfkoloss
believe me blizz doesnt look at master players when doing patches and that is a good thing. pros are so much MUCH better than master or low GM players.


Yes they do lol. They listen to THESE forums lmao!
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07/18/2013 12:53 PMPosted by iBuyWins
believe me blizz doesnt look at master players when doing patches and that is a good thing. pros are so much MUCH better than master or low GM players.


Yes they do lol. They listen to THESE forums lmao!


He doesn't want to admit the game is balanced lol
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Numbers don't indicate how interesting the matches are,nor how much they hinge on one or two lynch pin strategies, which ultimately makes everything but mirrors very stale.
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07/18/2013 01:10 PMPosted by GroundZero
Numbers don't indicate how interesting the matches are,nor how much they hinge on one or two lynch pin strategies, which ultimately makes everything but mirrors very stale.


I didn't say the matches were interesting. If you actually watch you'll find interesting games but it's all preference really.

I said it's interesting because 80% of the people in the SC2 !@#$% and moan all the time and yet the win-rates for the WCS globally are far more balanced than I ever expected.

I guess you can't please the delusional though. They're going to twist reality to suit themselves over hard facts every time lol.
Edited by iBuyWins on 7/18/2013 1:18 PM PDT
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07/18/2013 01:17 PMPosted by iBuyWins
I didn't say the matches were interesting. If you actually watch you'll find interesting games but it's all preference really.


Oh I do watch, and it's the players making it interesting, not the matchup themselves. There's just so little diversity.

07/18/2013 01:17 PMPosted by iBuyWins
I said it's interesting because 80% of the people in the SC2 !@#$% and moan all the time and yet the win-rates for the WCS globally are far more balanced than I ever expected.


Oh yeah I think the game is pretty much perfectly balanced numerically.

07/18/2013 01:17 PMPosted by iBuyWins
I guess you can't please the delusional though. They're going to twist reality to suit themselves over hard facts every time lol.


Only the few and far between. The Taylor Swifts, Daveroids, and Aurtoss' of this forums will always be more out spoken than the vast majority of the good posters.
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07/18/2013 01:21 PMPosted by GroundZero
There's just so little diversity.


Meh, what can you expect though. These players are trying to make money and win at any cost. The game is going to get figured out. You can't tell pros how to play.

I'm pretty entertained even by matches without a ton of diversity. That's just one facet. If you want to enjoy watching the game you have to appreciate the other aspects like skill, positioning, strategy, etc.

I feel bad for the people that only look for one thing when spectating the game, they're going to be disappointed more than pleased.
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Blizzard just needs to release the statistics they're using and get it over with. That way us players won't say, "Don't use this set of stats, use THAT set of stats!"

The winrates here look balanced. So if this is the measuring stick, good job to David Kim and Company.
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Yeah the game is pretty balanced at the moment contrary tto all the terran whining.
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Posts: 678
The winrates here look balanced. So if this is the measuring stick, good job to David Kim and Company.


Yea, I just brought this up because I think it's a pretty good place to look. All the competition for WCS is hard fought because the players are all fighting for important things here.
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Posts: 16,510
Blizzard just needs to release the statistics they're using and get it over with. That way us players won't say, "Don't use this set of stats, use THAT set of stats!"


nah, they'll say it, just at blizzard instead of other players
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Posts: 1,423
Protoss is slightly ahead in PvZ with a 51.3% win-rate.

TvZ is almost perfectly balanced in the WCS with Terrans holding a 50.3% win-rate.


Except it's mostly Korean Protosses (Hero, Alicia, Oz, etc) playing against foreigners in WCS America dragging the winrates up (56.2% in PvT, 54.1% PvZ)

If you take out WCS AM and only look at Premier league for EU and KR (+ Global finals), you get

PvT: Protoss wins 55, Terran wins 68 (Protoss has 44.7% winrate)
PvZ: Protoss wins 74, Zerg wins 79 (Protoss has 48.3% winrate)
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To be honest, those track well with other stats. It all seems within a small margin.
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Using the top 5% of the players in starcraft 2 is a good determination of balance.
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07/18/2013 01:24 PMPosted by iBuyWins
Meh, what can you expect though. These players are trying to make money and win at any cost. The game is going to get figured out. You can't tell pros how to play.


If you give pros more equal opportunity plays though they'll wind up finding their own styles and the game will be so much more diverse.

PvT: Protoss wins 55, Terran wins 68 (Protoss has 44.7% winrate)
PvZ: Protoss wins 74, Zerg wins 79 (Protoss has 48.3% winrate)


Neither of those are bad. Both in that 5% grace period.
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07/18/2013 02:54 PMPosted by Domon
Using the top 5% of the players in starcraft 2 is a good determination of balance.


More like the top 1/8th percent. The top 5 percent of players includes diamond players.
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