StarCraft® II

Possible changes for balance test map

Posts: 209
08/12/2013 12:20 PMPosted by Dayvie
3. Vipers start with full energy
This change is not needed. Too big of a change and too strong. Viper rushing would be an auto-win build in certain matches if you did this (eg: ZvP vs a robo composition).

Please look at other areas of the game. There are many (eg: MSC early game).

  • Remove MSC's default attack.
  • When MSC uses Photon Overcharge, it 'attaches' to the Nexus and becomes the cannon itself. It can be targeted and can die (thus ending the 'nexus cannon').
Edited by Jaycee on 8/16/2013 8:04 AM PDT
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Posts: 1
i think mines splash damage should be smaller... or the mines them self should at least cost more than 75/25. i just find it crazy that a widow mine that takes no skill for the terran player can kill 30 zerglings
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Posts: 209
08/16/2013 09:43 AMPosted by muriden
i think mines splash damage should be smaller... or the mines them self should at least cost more than 75/25. i just find it crazy that a widow mine that takes no skill for the terran player can kill 30 zerglings
The exact same argument can be made for Banelings and Marines. A poor argument and it explains why you're in diamond.

The mine's splash radius can maybe kill a max of 35 lings. However, this is only under entirely ideal conditions in which the zerg player does nothing to stop it. The lings must get within 2 range of the Widow Mine, if they have speed, to activate it OR they must get within 5 range and stay there. Even then, the mine needs to target a ling within the center of a group to hit all those. If the zerg player doesn't suck, this situation should never happen (just like banes and marines).
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Posts: 152
Make the medivac blip on the map bigger so that it is more visible, same size as Warp Prism would be ideal, not the size of a single marine.

Also and not to be a stickler but zerg has 5 upgrades, protoss has 5 upgrades. Now terran would have only 4 with this change. If you combine the armory upgrades into one. I suggest your lower the health of bio and add in a 3rd upgrade called life which at level 3 gives them the current hp they should have. Or find something because 5-5-4 is unfair especially when both zerg and protoss are vesp reliant whereas terran is just mineral reliant for the most part so they can afford that 5th upgrade. All terran needs to do is spend some extra minerals on cc so that he can call down mass mules and if in need of vesp, they can easily mine vesp with mass map control.
Edited by NerdRage on 8/16/2013 10:33 AM PDT
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Posts: 152
08/16/2013 10:06 AMPosted by Jaycee
[quote="96776569778"]i think mines splash damage should be smaller... or the mines them self should at least cost more than 75/25. i just find it crazy that a widow mine that takes no skill for the terran player can kill 30 zerglings
A poor argument and it explains why you're in diamond.
/quote]

Just because you were grandmaster once upon a time doesn't give you the right to put down another player.
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Posts: 38
Trivia
The viper is David Kim's favorite new zerg unit in Heart of the Swarm.
Source: http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/Viper

This explains everything!
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Posts: 4,950
08/16/2013 09:43 AMPosted by muriden
i think mines splash damage should be smaller... or the mines them self should at least cost more than 75/25. i just find it crazy that a widow mine that takes no skill for the terran player can kill 30 zerglings

Do you mean 30 zerglings in one shot or just 30 zerglings it's lifetime? There is a difference fyi because it is impossible for a widow mine to take out 30 zerglings at once.
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Posts: 7,725
So, after playing some and experimenting, I think mech needs a bit more of a direct counter to its deterrent counters, namely immortals and archons.

I don't know if its via buff or nerfs, but the upgrades do not really affect the zone control ability of mech imho.
Edited by nomufftotuff on 8/17/2013 12:52 PM PDT
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Posts: 1,030
Tieing the weapon upgrades again is a nice sentiment (and will greatly help transitioning to air units) but the whole PvT thing is not "debatable" - past the 15 minute mark things start snowballing more and more in favor of the P, to the point where the T is just delaying their death.

Is it really asking too much to have the warhound back? Not exactly how it was before (it eclipsed the marauder and was generally kinda nuts) but with an armory requirement, reduced base damage (with a bonus to mechanical so it doesn't overlap with marauders) and increase the supply cost from 2 to 3 - problem solved. Immortals shut down mech too easily.

Either that, or buff tanks - maybe it's time to have them deal full damage again in siege mode so that Zealots can't just charge in and massacre them (Yeah yeah we have Hellbats I know but don't you think it's a bit silly to be able to blindly attack into heavy artillery and not pay a hefty price for it?)

It would certainly change TvT dramatically - no more stimming and suicide charging into a tank line to try and snipe them out.

I'm on the fence about Overlord buff, but I like that you're trying to make drops more viable. Viper energy is too much. Just, seriously, NO!
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Posts: 26
This is actually a key point. There is a really rough transition into T3 for zerg where we get useless vipers and wait to die to any terran who is scouting.

Both terran and protoss have anti-caster units (feedback, EMP) and with this tweak.. they will actually have to use them!

I think it is a great idea.
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Posts: 17
Ok my friends, after a huge WTF I think this changes could be fun.

IMO the Overseen speed will put the overseer at the front line and detonates all the mines and anulate terran bio/mine game. Zergs can use hultralisk to soak the mines damage and whit the overseer at the front maybe they don't need to go hive anymore to counter bio/mines. Not sure if it is a good idea but wee have to see to know.

The Armory upgrade can help terrans in so many ways that I cant believe it gone go through.

But the Viper full energy is really sound like a April 1st joke. I think if improve the consume ability is enough. The time terrans and Protoss need to get ghost and HT is huge and depends on upgrades to be useful. Blinding cloud is a very strong ability and can win games even if it is scouted. Please think again on this.
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Posts: 87
T are still waiting for that battlecruiser speed buff that was promised to us...
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Posts: 10,061
This is actually a key point. There is a really rough transition into T3 for zerg where we get useless vipers and wait to die to any terran who is scouting.

Both terran and protoss have anti-caster units (feedback, EMP) and with this tweak.. they will actually have to use them!

I think it is a great idea.

Ghosts will never be worth using against Vipers without some kind of buff.
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Posts: 2
I appreciate wanting to help us zerg players in ZvT blizz. Biomine is the only comp in the entire game I have no solution for! I know of remedies, but it just seems a little too strong when you get to the 20 minute mark.

I dont think these fixes help that though. GIVE US AN ULTRALISK UPGRADE. thats what we need vs Biomine. MAKE ULTRALISK A LESS KITEABLE UNIT.

Or... UN-NERF INFESTOR!!
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Posts: 7,666
08/16/2013 07:39 AMPosted by Jaycee
This change is not needed. Too big of a change and too strong. Viper rushing would be an auto-win build in certain matches if you did this (eg: ZvP vs a robo composition).


Getting a Templar Archives out quickly enough just for a Templar for Feedback is easy enough and the full energy means that they die right away unless they burn energy on useless Blinding Clouds.

08/17/2013 03:22 PMPosted by CKseven
Or... UN-NERF INFESTOR!!


Why do people keep asking for this? The Infestor is in an amazing place, at least in terms of Fungal. ITs being a little better would be nice, but I'd much rather see more attention on Zerg's lesser used mid-game units. Hydralisks are still really bad, and really expensive, and Swarm Hosts are only viable is cheeky midgame all-in contains and late game half map sieges.
Edited by GroundZero on 8/17/2013 5:37 PM PDT
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Posts: 7,666
08/17/2013 02:10 PMPosted by TerranicII
Ghosts will never be worth using against Vipers without some kind of buff.


Oh that's bullsh!t. Terran just haven't tried. Four Ghosts, four snipes, dead Viper. Ghosts and Vipers are only really going to see use in mech play anyway, and the addition of the Ghosts means you have a great way to push back and just generally harass Zerg with Cloaked Ghosts and Nukes.
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Posts: 3,208
I appreciate wanting to help us zerg players in ZvT blizz. Biomine is the only comp in the entire game I have no solution for! I know of remedies, but it just seems a little too strong when you get to the 20 minute mark.

I dont think these fixes help that though. GIVE US AN ULTRALISK UPGRADE. thats what we need vs Biomine. MAKE ULTRALISK A LESS KITEABLE UNIT.

Or... UN-NERF INFESTOR!!


Sir, I'm afraid I will have to escort you off the premises and throw you into the abyss of idiocy.

---

Ultralisks would be un-killable if they were any less kiteable. They aren't affected by marauder slow, and already have their armour upgrade which effectively makes them one of the most armoured units in the game. they tank a TON of damage and deal a lot of damage themselves.

As for the infestor, it's fine where it is. MAYBE the Infested Terrans could use a small buff (perhaps, like widow mine, they recieve armour upgrades only?) Fungal Growth is perfect where it is - it doesn't instantly hit and root everything in place, which gives opponents a chance to split and/or move out of range before they get hit. But they still have to be wary of Fungal Growth, especially cause once they're hit, there's no way for them to escape unless the user forgets to do another Fungal before it wears off.

Please stop being bad and learn to play.
Edited by Miro on 8/17/2013 7:05 PM PDT
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Posts: 104
Damn... this sounds realy good ._.
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Posts: 760
08/14/2013 11:05 PMPosted by TerranicII
They're too expensive given how little damage they do to the units they counter. :p

By this argument you would endlessly buff Vipers no matter how effective they are.

Blinding Cloud is broken against mech as it is, while less useful against other units. The ability needs rework such as a smaller flat 6.5-8 range reduction down to the minimum of melee range, but a larger radius and a short duration where the buff persists on units shortly after they leave the cloud. Something like that alone would make Vipers better while making them more reasonable against mech.
No, I wouldn't. Don't assume.

Vipers are a good unit. They do what they're supposed to do well and they're fairly easy to pick off at the same time with a little micro. They also eat through their energy pretty fast and what are you going to do, Consume your army in the middle of battle? I wouldn't nerf or buff them.

Banelings on the other hand, they don't do enough damage to the units they're supposed to counter given their cost compared to the units they're meant to be used against. This weakness is further compounded by the fact that many of them will die before they even get to their targets. Add to that the fact that they die when they attack and you've got a unit that you have to sink a disproportionately large amount of money into to even stand a chance at winning the engagement only to still come out behind even if you do.
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Posts: 87
Laughing out loud that someone just demanded an Ultralisk buff. Ultralisks were buffed! Several times. In Hots. They are arguably the best unit in the entire game AS IS. If an Ultralisk could chase down stimmed up marines then they would be straight up OP.

And if someone feels inclined to point out that I recently (in this very discussion) requested a Battlecruiser speed buff, then I would counter that I am justified. The Battlecruiser is the one of the weakest tier 3 units in the game. It cannot kite away from anything and is easy pickings for just about anything with some AA.

I know it is about four years ahead of schedule, but I think it is already time to bring back the warhound.
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