Possible changes for balance test map

Posts: 4
nice buffs... for anything bu protoss
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Posts: 2,202
So... you're trying to promote a few things while not fixing the Oracle, Tempest, and Carrier? I am shocked that you, Dayvie, would be willing to modify the Terran and Zerg arsenal to promote a few things yet not doing anything about what the community has asked for ages such as a build time reduction on the Carrier or fixing the Oracle so it can be useful all game long?

There's nothing wrong with looking at the other two races but when you intentionally shaft Protoss and not address the problems that needs your attention, while doing kneejerk reactions like removing the Amulet and Vane upgrades, you disgust me sir.

I wish you would get removed because you are biased towards promoting diversity or fixing issues regarding the other two races when you don't give all the races your full and equal attention.

Protoss is in a horrible shape compared to Brood War yet you're fine with Zerg pressuring Protoss like there's no tomorrow with Roaches/Hydralisks then there's Swarm Hosts that destroys supply and resource cost units with free units. You don't address Protoss' advantage against Terran late game with a powerful Gateway/Robotics synergy, and give Protoss too many opportunities to mindlessly turtle with Photon Overcharge and Sentries while limiting their offensive capabilities, making them weak offensively early game and weak mid-game.

I hope you get fired (maybe this is an overreaction) but I am not impressed by your performance ever since 2010. You apparently don't understand what made Brood War such a successful game, and you're failing to live up to that even now.
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Posts: 640
So... you're trying to promote a few things while not fixing the Oracle, Tempest, and Carrier? I am shocked that you, Dayvie, would be willing to modify the Terran and Zerg arsenal to promote a few things yet not doing anything about what the community has asked for ages such as a build time reduction on the Carrier or fixing the Oracle so it can be useful all game long?

There's nothing wrong with looking at the other two races but when you intentionally shaft Protoss and not address the problems that needs your attention, while doing kneejerk reactions like removing the Amulet and Vane upgrades, you disgust me sir.

I wish you would get removed because you are biased towards promoting diversity or fixing issues regarding the other two races when you don't give all the races your full and equal attention.

Protoss is in a horrible shape compared to Brood War yet you're fine with Zerg pressuring Protoss like there's no tomorrow with Roaches/Hydralisks then there's Swarm Hosts that destroys supply and resource cost units with free units. You don't address Protoss' advantage against Terran late game with a powerful Gateway/Robotics synergy, and give Protoss too many opportunities to mindlessly turtle with Photon Overcharge and Sentries while limiting their offensive capabilities, making them weak offensively early game and weak mid-game.

I hope you get fired (maybe this is an overreaction) but I am not impressed by your performance ever since 2010. You apparently don't understand what made Brood War such a successful game, and you're failing to live up to that even now.
+10. Well said friend well said. Viper change lolol. Idras reaction of the Viper change= REally David Kim is at it again.
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Posts: 1,979
These buffs change nothing. There's still the problems with the widow mines + bio dps...
Terran is too long safe with widow mines. And make protoss harder they spam so maby spells in fights and high master protoss only require 80 apm.... "beautiful storm!!"
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Posts: 344
The mech and air upgrades combined is going to be a very welcome addition. this might be the needed change to get me back into the game. I hope this comes through! **fingers crossed**
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Posts: 1,215
08/12/2013 12:20 PMPosted by Dayvie
debateable

Spelling, blizzard!!!!!!!
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Posts: 736
The first two changes are fantastic. Zerg definitely needs a faster detector to keep up with their faster units. Particularly when Widow Mines are on creep or weird terrain like the water in Gwangalli Beach.

The attack upgrade combination may not sound like much, but it will do wonders for mech in TvZ. If nothing else, it will help Vikings take down Vipers and Broodlord/Corruptor which give Mech problems. But I think if we're lucky we may even see the fabled Terran transition once in awhile.

The Viper buff I'm less sold on, but it seems like a 'might as well,' since everyone immediately consumes with the Vipers anyway. It will offset the buff to air attack a little by not having a building hp cost to new Vipers, but I don't think the extra time really matters in the matchup.
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Posts: 526
Deal.
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Posts: 9,885
Gonna copypaste myself since relevant.

My thoughts is this. Protoss at its core is broken. Wargate really hampers things. Protosses t3 and support are amazing. Like the best in game. And this is compensated for a weak core. ANd it is that core which needs buffing. But warpgate and potential timings make any buff here tricky at best.. Game breaking at worst. Mech and Zerg are not suffering from these problems. HoTs made zerg a complete and well rounded race.Mech at its core isn't broken. Just lack luster and really expensive to support. This buff makes mech which should always be backed with air support much lest costly and more realistic. I don't think I like the Viper buff. But the overseer is a simple change which I think should have been implimented a long time ago,

In short. Fixing mech and helping zerg have better detection are simple easy to fix things. The entirety of the protoss race is not.
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Posts: 736
08/12/2013 01:47 PMPosted by uALLevrybody
Make it so burrowed banelings detonate automatically if an enemy walks over them. (or have it be researchable). ZvT requires so many actions per minute to stay alive in the late game, baneling landmines are super helpful but you have to be paying VERY close attention to them in addition to the multitude of other things going on to properly detonate them.


You can autocast unburrow, it'll do roughly the same thing. Pros do it themselves because they can wait until more units are on top of them, but if you don't have the apm and awareness (I know I don't) it can be worth it to just right click and activate the autocast.
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Posts: 2
If Vipers start out with full energy you will no longer see coli in pvz
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Posts: 629
The viper and overseer changes, good changes. Lets test them. That's exactly what the viper needs. The overseer speed seems very minor to combat bio mine play...but then again, once I get my hands on it, it may make a difference.
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Posts: 3
08/12/2013 02:01 PMPosted by LexMillea
debateable

Spelling, blizzard!!!!!!!
Says the guy who writes Blizzard without a capital. Stop whining.
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Posts: 416
Viper buff => never build Tanks in TVZ ever again.
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Posts: 2,354
Love the thoughts behind the changes. As always, thank you for sharing Dayvie!

I'm slightly concerned that combining the Air/Vehicle weapons upgrades will be too powerful. It opens up many mid-game attack timings in TvP/TvZ, and has the potential to strengthen this area rather than buff the late-game as intended.

Perhaps you could lower the cost of the Armory, or lower the cost/research time of the upgrades rather than combining them. This would still buff the mech-to-air transition without something as significant as 2 upgrades for the price of 1.

Full support for the Overseer and Viper changes (though maybe not full energy), they are exactly what Zerg needs to deal with the mass biomine style.
Edited by Axiom on 8/12/2013 2:29 PM PDT
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Posts: 5,313
I welcome the potential overseer buff. I feel like the Viper buff would not affect gameplay that much. People were just consuming evo chambers anyways.

Mech buff... why not. Seems like a huge buff thought but we'll see. Why not, maybe we wont see MMMM in 99,9% of games after that.
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Posts: 1,102
1) Overseer buff: I heard the words "perhaps late game TvZ goes more smoothly"... are you KIDDING me? Late game TvZ is so far tilted in Zerg favor it's not even funny. Brood Lords, Ultralisks, and Infestors, come on... plus the INSTANT tech switch between BL's and Ultras... Zerg already has one of the best late game units in the entire game, and you're asserting that they're weak late game? What planet are you on? If Zerg ever remembers that they can play WOL style greedy, and to make infestors, TvZ will again be broken. It's only because they forgot that winfestors are a great unit, and that they can play super greedy and not get punished, that TvZ is even right now.

2) Not going to solve the core problem that mech is weak in general. And will also solidify the "mech only" play in TvT. Might also cause problems for TvZ. How about changing Terran ground weapons to be common, and infantry/vehicle armor to be separate?

3) Sure, as long as you fix blinding cloud to make it "Units within blinding cloud have range reduced to 1, and units shooting into blinding cloud also have a range of 1". It's ridiculous that units can't see out, but other units can still see in. This still nullifies tanks completely.

Addendum: WHERE IS THE NERF TO PHOTON OVERCHARGE?!?!?!
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Posts: 1,102
Final addendum: Want to fix mech in general? "Siege tank - Tanks now have 0 base armor and 160 HP (normal) when sieged, and 2 base armor and 240 HP (50% bonus) when in tank mode." Mech = viable now. AND you have a siege line breaker TvT... congratulations.
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Posts: 2,017
08/12/2013 12:20 PMPosted by Dayvie
Having to micromanage your army in every engagement, morph new Banelings, manage 4-5 (or more) bases, and morph new Overseers can be a bit too much.


Glad you agree.....
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Posts: 72
Yes buf Viper and kill whats left of mech in TvZ
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