Call to Action: August 19 Balance Testing

Posts: 266
ok now please buff the maruders hp to 160 but this is a upgrade so its in enginerying bay this is even out pvt and ull have to buff zerg to zerg needs hydralisk buff it starts with 13damage and 100hp protoss is fine and nerf mutalisk 100 hp
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Posts: 3,273
08/16/2013 08:35 AMPosted by llllllllllll
ok now please buff the maruders hp to 160 but this is a upgrade so its in enginerying bay this is even out pvt and ull have to buff zerg to zerg needs hydralisk buff it starts with 13damage and 100hp protoss is fine and nerf mutalisk 100 hp
As a Terran. Hahaha...No.
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Posts: 1,560
08/16/2013 01:22 AMPosted by BALOsaar
Imagine all hyper drives can go a set specific speed. With a hyper drive you are going really really fast, so you can't go through planets or asteroids. The reason why you describe the "Kessel run" in a minimum distance is because the navigation computer is more advanced and can calculate a better route or the one who set the route is more experienced.

Overseers bypass all terrain. That being said, AI pathing in SC2 automatically takes the fastest route available, which is less distance than ground forces.

The rest of that was simply a Star Wars reminiscing phase.

My only concern with this change is if they'll run waaaaay faster than the lings and get sniped on the ole 1-a-click. That's not to say that micro is bad, but a second of ignorance could cost you more supply count than ever before.
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Posts: 736
08/16/2013 08:56 AMPosted by Cerebro
My only concern with this change is if they'll run waaaaay faster than the lings and get sniped on the ole 1-a-click. That's not to say that micro is bad, but a second of ignorance could cost you more supply count than ever before.


They'd be the speed of a hydra, slightly ahead of a slow baneling on creep. They're not going to be running in front of lings or mutas.
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Posts: 659
I cant wait tillmy overseers rush in and get killed with no corruptor support!
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Posts: 1,560
08/16/2013 09:48 AMPosted by TheG
I cant wait tillmy overseers rush in and get killed with no corruptor support!

I can't imagine a situation in which you'll need both Corruptors and Overseers together unless we see some new Banshee oriented Mech builds come along.
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Posts: 7,893
SO far, this map has been fun. My two base timing is quite sharper now, so I can't say if it is "to good"

Spyrian, I may have overstepped my bounds, but a few friends and I have complied some of the most discussed tweaks (which may or may not be overpowerred at this point) into a community map. We wanted to help you guys gather as much data as possible

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/9677847768

Here is the thread and map is contained within

It would be most rewarding if we could get players to play some games on our map after playing blizz's so they coul provide more insightful feedback (hopefully :D).

Good work btw Spyrian!
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Posts: 2,901


A Parsec is a unit of measurement :P

1 Parsec = 3.08567758 × 10^16 meters


Imagine all hyper drives can go a set specific speed. With a hyper drive you are going really really fast, so you can't go through planets or asteroids. The reason why you describe the "Kessel run" in a minimum distance is because the navigation computer is more advanced and can calculate a better route or the one who set the route is more experienced.

So you actually can't say that with an increase of speed you will make a Kessel run in more or less parsecs because it is a unit of distance, not time. If you could have made it less than 12 parsecs before the increase in speed, you will still make it in the same amount of distance.

The Kessel Run skirts a black hole, and the distance (18 parsecs) is based the minimum safe distance to avoid the gravitational pull.

By running closer to the black hole, reducing the route to 12 parsecs, the speed of the ship making the run is the only thing keeping it out of the gravitational pull (mass and weight are factors too, but speed affects these as well). Thus an indirect reference to speed is made when stating that you can do the run with a shorter route (fewer parsecs).

/Geek rant
Edited by Ezekiel on 8/16/2013 12:26 PM PDT
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Posts: 1
very good changes, to me that with this newly WOULD balanced the Zerg, and that if they take their stats in tournaments lately blizz hardly earn zerg (as wcs, gsl, dh, etc) are few who pass, which I disagree is with the mech terran, the terran mech not occupy the unit not because they are bad, but rather because they simply occupy marine, medivac, marauder, mine is counter to everything, there is not anything better than this composition, is good in early and late game, is unstoppable and op.

that's my opinion greetings.
Edited by IIIIIIII on 8/16/2013 1:05 PM PDT
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Posts: 12,350
08/16/2013 08:35 AMPosted by ANLProbe
A parsec is slightly longer than 3 light years.


It is a distance from the sun with a parallax of one arc-second.

Behold the power of triangles.
Edited by Hylozoist on 8/16/2013 4:53 PM PDT
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Posts: 3,485
08/15/2013 11:33 PMPosted by TBird
I see they're not testing any Protoss buffs. Have Protoss been dominating the pro scene lately?
protoss is seen by blizz as the most balanced currently. Zerg hasn't seen any patch attention at all in hots that I can think of off the top of my head since beta so don't feel to bad.
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Posts: 8
I have played a few games on this map. The combined terran upgrades don't seem to make a huge difference at my level.
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Posts: 11
It does not change the fact that widow mines kills almost all zerg army in one second, and neither the terran or the zerg saw what happened hahaha. I'm platinum, I win a lot ZvP and ZvZ, but I can't win ZvT with widow mines. Thinking about changing the race. Maybe Polt 4-0 Jaedong and Innovation 3-1 Soulkey is a clear signal. In my view, Jaegong played a lot better (micro, macro, control), and lost! Zerg race will end if the game continue like this. Honestly.
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Posts: 135
now giving the viper max energy is a little too drastic, It would be like making infestors full enrgy when they pop but thats just me. There should be an upgrade for more energy and even then the upgrade should not make it so it is maxed energy, also if you give vipers that much energy you need to remove the consume ability, buffing them that much is bound to have unfavorable results.
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Posts: 135
Widow mines are a perfectly credible unit to counter zerg due to the fact that zerg is so larva intensive and can out produce any other race in the quickest manner, if there was no unit to control the zerg no race would win. A hatch produces 9.2 larva per minute and injects produces an additional 4 larva after 40 seconds, so a hatch w/ proper injects can acquire 15.2 larva in 1 minute. Now just think about it, clearly zerg is created to outproduce any other race b/c of the larva and the cost of units ( 2 lings for 50minerals and only 1 larva needed ) In order to balance this, and starcraft 2 is far from balanced, sure you can argue otherwise but simply put down to the core it is not completely balanced, so to get to the point there needs to be other units created in order to balance the mass production of zerg, and that is why terran needs more aoe b/c tanks just dont cut it like they did in wol , and widow mines are cheaper and more mobile but mines are easily countered in many diff ways, just a thought :)
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Posts: 6,080
08/16/2013 11:21 PMPosted by DaiCa
now giving the viper max energy is a little too drastic, It would be like making infestors full enrgy when they pop but thats just me. There should be an upgrade for more energy and even then the upgrade should not make it so it is maxed energy, also if you give vipers that much energy you need to remove the consume ability, buffing them that much is bound to have unfavorable results.


I agree.
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Posts: 3,366
08/16/2013 11:21 PMPosted by DaiCa
now giving the viper max energy is a little too drastic, It would be like making infestors full enrgy when they pop but thats just me.
Yes, it is just you. The comparison you make is 100% completely not the same thing. Not even close.

What limits viper energy is nearby buildings they can drain energy off of. What limits infestors is... just time. That's it.

The only difference between a full energy viper and a no energy viper is a little bit of time of him sucking on one of your buildings. The "start out with full energy" buff is practically nothing. It won't change anything.
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Posts: 1,307
I have played about 6 ZvP and 6 ZvT, and have evaluated these opinions based on these games, note that in all of these games my main game plan revolved around using the buffs to any degree, not necessarily to win any of the games, and they were played with a low masters Protoss and a high diamond Terran player, I am a high diamond/low masters Zerg on my other account.

ZvP

Overseer - I actually like this change vs. Protoss alot, scouting is easy, and contaminating Forges and Robotics Bays is pretty easy with how maneuverable the Overseers are. A good little minor buff in this match up,

Viper - I'm really torn on this, and it's definitely in a bad way. This buff seems to almost encourage rushing to Hive and trying to hit some sort of timing with full energy Vipers which seemed tricky as it severely delayed my upgrades and cut into my Hydralisk count, although in a few of the games where I tried a Stephano style Roach max with quick Vipers was pretty good against a Protoss going 3 base, but as SOON as High Templar hit the field, no more Vipers. Period, they just get feedbacked and pop like balloons.

This makes the relationship that the Viper has with ZvP almost totally all or nothing, either you hit some type of timing with the Vipers, or they become obsolete with the first Templars.

ZvT

Overseer - Great in this match up currently, they keep pace with Mutalisks alot better, I can almost bait mine shots with the Overseers and save my Mutalisks from all damage, they are also much easier to save from the bio ball in main engagements, good little buff to the match up.

Viper - Very bad change for this match up, we tried to use mech (so he could of course try the new upgrades) and as long as the Vikings were at least somewhat zoned out by air support, Vipers are now incredibly potent vs. mech, more so then they already were, coming right out and blinding the mech army is just flat out overpowered vs. factory units. On top of that, it is still supremely useless vs. Terran bio, this change adds nothing to the match up, if anything it actually takes away.

Proposal

Make Blinding Cloud reduce the range by a flat 5 so that mech isn't just totally raped by the Viper and that it can still zone out bio units, but make any bio unit effected by it unable to see for 2-3 seconds, so that just running out of the cloud doesn't just negate the effect of it completely.
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Posts: 6
I dont see how Viper buff changes much. Still gets hardcountered by HT in ZvP. And Terran bio is still very very strong and Viper wont help much against that. When it gets to the point where terran dont bother getting Ghosts to deal with "spellcasters" but instead make more cheap bio you know something is wrong.
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Posts: 12,457
08/17/2013 01:18 AMPosted by Fruitdealer
I dont see how Viper buff changes much. Still gets hardcountered by HT in ZvP. And Terran bio is still very very strong and Viper wont help much against that. When it gets to the point where terran dont bother getting Ghosts to deal with "spellcasters" but instead make more cheap bio you know something is wrong.

EMP affects every Protoss unit, thus the Ghost is very useful in TvP.

Ghosts aren't worth anywhere near their cost in TvZ or TvT, and aren't needed. There is no case in TvT or TvZ where an expensive Ghost is significantly better against a caster than another unit that normally counters units of that type to be worth purchasing a Ghost to deal with that counter instead of the unit that can kill the caster and a host of other units.
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