Call to Action: August 19 Balance Testing

Posts: 7,892
While we're at it, let's combine Protoss shield and ground armor upgrades as well. Ground armor will upgrade ground shields, and air armor will upgrade air shields.

In fact, let's take away everything that made each race's upgrades unique.

A bit of sarcasm there, sorry, but I'm firmly against these cheap kinds of changes rather than addressing the problems more directly.


Terrans upgrades are blatantly underpowered compared to Protoss. +1 armor for Protoss benefits every single ground composition the race has, allowing mindless and easy transitions throughout the game. If you really want upgraded air as well, you get the shield upgrade which benefits "everything" and air armor and attack upgrades from a cybercore, you get at the start of the game anyway.

It's obvious Terran upgrades need a rework for mech to become viable, just the questions if these ones are the correct method.


It's the the upgrades that are the problem, it's the unit interactions we have.
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Posts: 12,452
08/20/2013 09:03 PMPosted by SleepyFoX
It's obvious Terran upgrades need a rework for mech to become viable, just the questions if these ones are the correct method.

The problem is not the upgrades, it is the strength of the actual units themselves. Which is precisely why Blizzard doesn't seem to want to fix mech.
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Posts: 1,724
08/20/2013 12:57 PMPosted by Doncroft
Making the Terran upgrade system blatantly overpowered


Say what?

This helps mech timings (but not macro mech) and bio mech greatly. Though more needs to be done on mech units this change promotes a lot of diversity which you should be for.

Not everything has to be about you winning games on the ladder Don.
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MVP - StarCraft
Posts: 28,388
Say what?

This helps mech timings (but not macro mech) and bio mech greatly. Though more needs to be done on mech units this change promotes a lot of diversity which you should be for.

Not everything has to be about you winning games on the ladder Don.

Terran having four upgrades vs the other races having 5 is ridiculous.
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Posts: 7,099
^ Can't tell if serious.
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Posts: 3,751
It's the the upgrades that are the problem, it's the unit interactions we have.

The problem is not the upgrades, it is the strength of the actual units themselves. Which is precisely why Blizzard doesn't seem to want to fix mech.


http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/9653245392

Protoss is often 1/1 or even 2/2 before Terran even has their 1/0 mech upgrade, and Terran cannot afford 2 armories + upgrades + all of the factories to get "mech started" vs Protoss.

This needs to change, and combining the mech/air upgrades obviously helps but it does not target this issue enough. Armory price needs to be reduced to 100/50 to allow Terran players to upgrade mech units at a reasonable time in the game on par with Protoss/Zerg.

You guys at blizzard are missing a huge point on even attempting to make mech viable. Upgrades in a game of SC2 are one of the most important factors of your units's fighting strengths.

It is ridiculous that you do not recognize of course 1/0 mech Terran is having insane difficulty vs 2/2 or 3/3 Protoss units + immortals.


Avilo rants and cries alot, but in this part I agree with him 100%. When Terran go for compositions of anything besides pure bio, Upgrades blatantly favour Protoss it's not even funny.

Maybe you don't realise the importance of upgrades, most lower level players don't, but at higher levels it makes a BIG difference. I think combining the mech and air upgrades will help more than Avilo says and assist with dealing with Tempest switches, but if these aren't enough then mech upgrades need to be looked at in another way.

It's an important step in the direction to help mech.
Edited by SleepyFoX on 8/21/2013 1:36 AM PDT
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Posts: 980
@sleepyfox: agree on cheaper armory if you dont forget to make bio upgrades more expensive. otherwise once again bio gets even stronger...
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Posts: 1,724
08/21/2013 12:33 AMPosted by Doncroft
Terran having four upgrades vs the other races having 5 is ridiculous.


Different races are different. Now you sound petty and jealous.

Having a bad day mayhaps? Na its probably the usual bias.
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Posts: 3,751
Having a bad day mayhaps? Na its probably the usual bias.


What does mayhaps mean.
Edited by SleepyFoX on 8/21/2013 2:31 AM PDT
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Posts: 3,932
Terran having four upgrades vs the other races having 5 is ridiculous.
The trouble is that terran bio is in a really tight spot right now. Anything that remotely alters bio could tip things over in a bad way. So you won't see changes like making a "light weapons vs. heavy weapons" upgrade or anything like that.

Mech is in a difficult spot mostly because of how upgrades work. Terran has later and more expensive access to the armory when compared to Zerg or Protoss (It's like having zerg ranged upgrades on Spire or shields on T.council). So no matter how you cut it, mech is going to lag behind in a significant way. Perhaps the armory itself is at fault, for being too expensive or not being fast enough to tech up. Perhaps mech upgrades should go to the engineering bay, where it really would make a difference. However, a change like that could tip 1/1/1 builds, etc. and make even more things mess up.

While merging the upgrades will help early mech, it gives a much larger boost to late mech that could end up a lot of trouble. But that's why the test map exists.
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Posts: 27
all i can say is when is blizzard going to learn. and put the right upgrade to the right race to the right unit. Screw this game just refund my money that I paid for this game. and all the hours wasted in playing it.

Why is blizzard so afraid of nerfing terran units when they are the race with dozeeeeennnnnnssssss of build to harrass and still successfully macro.

When is blizzard going to admit that terran splash damage, concusive shell, mines and mule are really unbalance advantage over other race.

Stop playing favoritism make everything balance so all races can enjoy the game.

We get humans are suppose to win over aliens but if you want that why create other race to play with.

If you can't make the right nerf and buff to balance this game just give me back my money and lets call it quits.
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Posts: 199
ultra is already very strong, especially paired with infestors. Now ultra health increase?
More viper usage, ok.... why everyone should mech vs Zerg?
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Posts: 67
Lets just make the infestation pit needed to get level 3 upgrades.

Don't worry about the perfectly balanced widow mine, Terrans will still use that version of a baneling a lot and it will still kill 4 times more than a baneling ever will.
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Posts: 27
Why are mules OP?

Think about it, it may not be op in early game but it is late game.

Mule can be use anytime during the game as long as CC got energy.

If player forgot to queen inject will the game allow another queen inject to make up for it????????? No? Why not? again this is not op at the beginning of the game but it can be late game, that is why it is not allowed. So why doesn't mule have the same restrictions??????? "My boss play terran and he will kill if me if I nerf mule" does that sound familiar? or does it??

Would it be op if Chrono Boost use twice increases probe or upgrades more? I am sure toss will find that lot of fun and very useful. again why is it not allowed????

Come on starcraft team time to man up or start giving refunds. Either do the right nerf or buff the right unit.
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Posts: 27
Why are concusive shell OP?

I have played terran against zerg and wow guess how quickly this ability paired with stim paired with upgrades do damage. So much. If other race can only increase their damage 3x the damage done by terran is increase 5x.

Sure toss got colo, that would have been nice if they won't get killed by Viking.

Sure toss got storm that would definitely be nice if terran don't have EMP

Wow was that a pattern a counter for each ability.

So does that mean banes equals mines. Doesn't mines survive after it has done its damage? yes!!! and banes just die.

How about swarm how then???? they are way to expensive and to slow for a fast phase game against terran.

Infestor then???? Oh yeah their projectile ability now so terran can stim to avoid them.

ok ok ok ULTRA??? have you seen ultra try to kill marine marauder and combo with mines.

Its like wasted gas and minerals. you invested all your money into something and it was pop like a bubble by mines, concussive shell and marines high dps.

Micro???? it doesn't change the fact that concussive shell is OP!!!!!
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Posts: 27
Splash damage OP?????

let me see tanks, mines, nukes, hellions, hellbats, thor missiles, viking missiles.

vs 4 colo splash damage that is laughable doesn't even need and explanation. viking counters colo gg

vs ultra splash damage that is more laughable can ultra kill behind wall or even when unit are at the high ground.

Guess what tanks, mines, nukes, hellion, thor and vikings can.
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Posts: 27
What balance is needed?

Viper need to be a tier 2 units so they can be more useful during the battle. This will encourage more build for all races.

Nydus should be gasless so zerg can take advantage of it more. Either that or give it same ability as bunker so it can be salvage.

Ultralisk should use less supply and little less expensive so they can be more effective against mines.

They maybe good against marines but not mass marines and not mass marinemarauder and not against marinemarudermines combo. Giving them 50 more health will solve the problem and make things balance.

Swarmhost should have ability to move while burrowed. They don't have to have the ability to move all the time but atleast the give it a cooldown time to move to another location after it has release it locust.

So it doesn't have to be too dependent of other units.

Anyway either do the right buff and nerf to the right units or just refund my money and lets call it quits.
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Posts: 140
Lol, MightyThor. Four posts, all of them with excesses of question marks????, exclamation marks!!!!, and lots of redundant talking without actually saying what "the rgiht buff and nerf to the right units" actually is. (Edit: and get your facts straight! Viking missiles don't do splash damage)

And yes, Zerg can use queen energy up in the lategame via transfuse and/or macro hatcheries.

Troll-feeding aside, I agree with those who say an infestor buff would be better than an ultra buff. Better still, how about some love for the poor BL, carrier and BC which are almost never used.

ahydra
Edited by ahydra on 8/21/2013 9:44 AM PDT
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Posts: 1,307
08/21/2013 01:44 AMPosted by DaveDroid
Na its probably the usual bias.


Lmfao, pot calling the kettle black.
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