Tanking With a Vengeance

A very nice paladin player asked me recently about Vengeance. She had concerns about the mechanic, which made me realize that we haven’t done the best job of explaining to players exactly what Vengeance is supposed to accomplish.
Vengeance is a new passive ability gained by choosing one of the tanking talent trees: Protection for warriors and paladins, Blood for death knights, or Feral for druids. When a tank with one of these talent specs takes damage, she gains an attack power bonus based on the damage taken. This bonus can’t exceed 10% of her health.
Vengeance was designed for a single purpose, which is to make sure tank threat scales as other players improve their gear. Imagine a raid of reasonably geared level-85 characters. In the absence of Vengeance, the tank might generate about 50% of the damage of a DPS character. With the tank’s threat modifiers this should be sufficient for her to generate enough threat to keep her targets stuck to her (unless something unusual is going on in the encounter). The problem is that in later tiers the mages and rogues in the raid accumulate gear that continues to increase their damage, while the tank chooses gear that increases her survivability. Tanks will pick up some threat stats along the way, but as their survival is almost always a necessary condition for victory, they choose gear accordingly. In later tiers, instead of doing 50% of the damage of a DPS class, the tank might start to slip to 30% or less of a DPS character's damage. Now threat becomes an issue. Threat needs to be an important part of the game -- I’ll try to explain why we think so in a future blog. However, it isn’t our design intent for threat generation to get much harder in the third tier of content relative to the first.
So that’s what Vengeance is supposed to be. Here is what it’s not supposed to be. Vengeance is not supposed to solve the threat problem completely. A tank shouldn’t be able to just auto-attack and let Vengeance do the rest. Vengeance isn’t a replacement for the tank generating enough initial threat to get the targets to stick to her. She shouldn’t need to rely on Vengeance in the first six seconds of combat. It’s there to prevent the warlock from slowly creeping up on her threat in the middle of the fight. (If this has never happened to your raid, it’s possible that the huge threat transfer potential of the rogue Tricks of the Trade and hunter Misdirection masked how dicey threat really was for you, but those abilities were redesigned for Cataclysm.) In fact, you shouldn’t need Vengeance at all in the first couple of tiers of Cataclysm content. If a lucky dodge streak causes Vengeance to fall off, and that means that you can’t generate enough threat, then either our numbers aren’t tuned correctly, or you need to L2tank.
Vengeance also isn’t supposed to make you scared to attack a tank in PvP. Tanks have enough benefits in PvP, such as being hard to kill and control, especially in Cataclysm when Rated Battlegrounds provide them with a role where they can defend flags or towers. Players generally don’t hit hard enough to trigger the full effect of Vengeance, unless they are all ganging up on one tank, at which point someone in the group should have the ability to dispel it (Vengeance is treated as an Enrage effect for dispel purposes).
Vengeance is a new mechanic, and like many design changes, it may take some tweaking to get right. Maybe it takes too long to stack up or falls off too easily. Maybe it does too much of the tank’s job for her and ends up producing a generation of lazy tanks. Threat is a tricky thing to balance. If it’s too easy to maintain, then the tank isn’t having fun. If it’s too hard to maintain, then nobody is having fun.
Believe it or not, we want tanking to be fun.
Greg "Ghostcrawler" Street is the Lead Systems Designer for World of Warcraft and once killed a dinosaur with a spreadsheet.

Area 52
Coulda fooled me...
Terokkar
Also, as mentioned earlier, this mechanic seems to reward soak tanking as opposed to avoidance tanking. Does Blizz have any thought on what may lead to pure stamina stacking at the expense of any avoidance stats not only being the norm but probably being considered essential for every tank?
Dragonmaw
The Venture Co
I have the same concerns currently, and I really hope that it won't end up being that way in Cata end game as well (though that still is quite a ways off). I can't imagine purposefully going into a fight missing gear so I can get hit more due to the buff falling off too frequently as the highest level of gear does not allow me to keep threat on par with my dps.
Bleeding Hollow
Bleeding Hollow
Pics or it didn't happen :)
Argent Dawn
Absorb: It might be just that insignificant but are you planning on something regarding a different way disc priest might affect the tanking and the initial aggro or are you satisfied with considering it as any other avoidance or mitigation mechanics? I suppose you could say dodging the first two attacks is pretty much the same but still, I am curious about why it hasn't been mentionned anywhere in the formula so far.
Ghostlands
Greymane
Now, about that moose....
The Scryers
Vashj
I keep grouping with ignorant DPS that blow all their CDs the second a pull starts and they die. They blame it on me, etc., etc.
Also, do you not want us to stack dodge anymore? Didn't you say that was one of the reasons you removed Defense?
Sargeras
Vashj
Nesingwary
Doomhammer
You could avoid abuse of this by having the whole stack fall off when you exit combat.
Vashj
Antonidas
people do far to much QQing about the game lately, or maybe
i just started to notice it all.
Khaz'goroth
Gorgonnash
Caelestrasz
So your saying that if we so much as try to get some avoidance we are newbs...
Sounds like you don't know what your talking about.
Sargeras
Is it not possible to somehow code a dodged or otherwise mitigated attack as effectively doing '0' damage, so it at least refreshes vengence and we can't end up screwing ourselves over?
Darrowmere
Stormrage
Whisperwind
Caelestrasz
So your saying that if we so much as try to get some avoidance we are newbs...
Sounds like you don't know what your talking about.
Staghelm
Illidan
Difficulty is what keeps this game refreshing. Keep up the excellent work.
Lightbringer
Lightninghoof
Terenas
Drak'thul
Lightninghoof
Illidan
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=27750115440&sid=2000
^Sums it up best imo. Please adjust it so that threat is actually something that a tank needs to pay attention to after the first minute of the fight.
Ty
Saurfang
Have you even read the article? Taken the thread you are refering to I take it you haven't...
Gnomeregan
Sisters of Elune
Wonderful article, thanks for the clear explanation now!
Jaedenar
Vashj
Hyjal