Guild Flask and Cauldron Hotfixes

We've recently implemented a number of hotfixes directly related to guild achievements, flasks, and cauldrons. When first designing the guild achievements, we overestimated the number of flasks that guilds would be able to make by the time they reached guild level 10, and set the number of Cataclysm flasks required for the two related guild achievements to 10,000 (Mix Master) and 25,000 (Better Leveling Through Chemistry). In reality, most guilds have made fewer flasks than we had originally anticipated they would at this point in guild progression, and many players will soon be unlocking a guild perk (Chug-A-Lug) directly related to cauldrons and flasks.

Today, we've applied a few hotfixes to help bring these flask-related achievements in line with what we had originally intended:

  • Mix Master now requires your guild to craft 1,000 Cataclysm flasks (down from 10,000).
  • Better Leveling Through Chemistry now requires your guild to craft 3,000 Cataclysm flasks (down from 25,000).


We felt it was important to implement these changes as a hotfix rather than waiting for the next content patch, as many guilds will be unlocking the Chug-A-Lug perk this weekend. Please note that while the new values are already in effect, the in-game tooltips will not reflect these changes until the next client patch. If your guild has already reached the new requirement, you'll receive the achievement as soon as someone in your guild creates a new flask.

In addition, we've made a couple other cauldron-related changes:

  • To ensure the Big Cauldron of Battle attained from Better Leveling Through Chemistry feels like a substantial upgrade over the "regular" version, the number of flasks it generates has been increased from 17 to 20.
  • Both cauldrons now last 10 minutes (up from 5).


If you're unfamiliar with guild cauldrons, here's a quick breakdown of how they work:

  • Unlocking the Recipes: Guilds can unlock the Cauldron of Battle alchemy recipe by completing the Mix Master achievement, and the Big Cauldron of Battle recipe by completing the Better Leveling Through Chemistry achievement. Buying either recipe from the guild vendor costs 150 gold and requires you to have reached honored reputation with your guild and an Alchemy skill of 525.
     
  • Creating the Cauldrons: A Cauldron of Battle is a soulbound, one-time use item that requires a mix of 4 Cataclysm flasks and 8 Deathblood Venom to create. When the alchemist places a cauldron on the ground, up to 7 Flasks of Battle can be conjured from it before it's exhausted. While these flasks are tradable, they cannot be sold on the Auction House and will be removed from your inventory if you log out for 15 minutes -- just like mage food. When consumed, the flask automatically gives you the most appropriate buff for your class and spec for 1 hour. The Big Cauldron of Battle works just the same, only it requires a mix of 12 Cataclysm flasks and yields 20 flasks rather than 7.
     
  • Guild Perk Benefits: As guilds level up, they'll receive perks that affect these cauldrons and flasks. At guild level 10, you earn the guild perk Chug-A-Lug, which increases the duration of Flasks of Battle by 50% -- meaning flasks from guild cauldrons will now last 1.5 hours instead of one. At guild level 20, the Happy Hour perk increases the number of flasks conjured from a guild cauldron by 50% (i.e.10 from a Cauldron of Battle instead of 7; 30 from a Big Cauldron of Battle instead of 20). Finally, at guild level 22, you'll earn an improved version of Chug-A-Lug, which increases the duration of Flasks of Battle by 100%, bringing it up to 2 hours.

 

We appreciate all the feedback we've received so far on the Guild Perk system, and we'll continue to make improvements to ensure it's a fun and rewarding endeavor.

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Comments (204)

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Tabbey
Suramar
Tabbey
4/3/2011
im the only alchemist in a very small guild (4or5 player are regularly active with another hlaf dozen playing from time to time.) and i think that this achieve is very reasonable. in between doing dailies and raids i farm quite alot and manage to always keep my GB stocked full of truegold and flasks. don't forget that flasks sell very quickly and you can easily turn a tidy profit from them if you find that your gb is over stocked. and another quick way to get this achieve is to offer "free with your mats" in trade, which can also be very profitable if you are elixer specced. i made over 100 in a few hours of farming and i would say i am well on my way to getting the achieve in reasonable time.
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Xelestial
Echo Isles
Xelestial
2/7/2011
1000 is still pretty much impossible for a 10 man raid guild. We've only made about 170. We got the perk for being level 10 but it's useless of course. They need to at least change the guild level 10 perk to something useful for smaller guilds.
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Vandersus
Hakkar
Vandersus
2/6/2011
So in other words... again, as usual, unless your guild is a large raiding guild, don't ever expect to get any of these perks. Again Blizzard forgets that the largest percentage of it's client base are not hard core raiders.
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Shankari
Sisters of Elune
Shankari
1/30/2011
We got this one - now we're working on the fishing.
Is there ANY possible fixes being looked at for the fish?
10,000 seems like not much, until you realize one of the feast fish is a non-pool fish - and the fish most people want (sagefish and the same one for feast, the lavascale catfish) are ALSO non-pool fish.

Also agree with the comments on glyphs - with the glyphs being permanent, nobody needs to make even 1/10th of this to help their guild.
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Bulbazaar
Doomhammer
Bulbazaar
1/28/2011
I like this change quite a bit, however, I will say that the number 7 for the number of flasks being made is an extremely awkward number. At no point will I be grouping with... seven members in a raid, I don't think :) It just seems a bit random. I would think the chain of progression would go the little flask is for smaller guilds, seeing as it requires only 1000 flasks instead of 3,000. So, naturally, much larger guilds will subsequently reach 3,000 much, much quicker. But that they only make 7 and 20 seems... entirely random. Where are the numbers coming from?
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Reneesmae
Alterac Mountains
Reneesmae
1/25/2011
How about lowering the requirement for That's A Lot of Bait as well...please? Not to many fishers in my guild......but that feast is better than the Boiled Dragon thing.
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Nimun
Darkspear
Nimun
1/24/2011
Definitely should do the same for the inscription achieve. We have three scribes in my guild and only ~300 glyphs made. 25,000 glyphs is enough to glyph 2,777 people. That achieve feels like it was made prior to the glyph change
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Kelari
Anvilmar
Kelari
1/21/2011
I'm glad they changed this, I despaired -ever- making that many flasks for my guild. I do witht hey would adjsut the rate of some herb spawns..I totally agree with the person who mentioned heartblossom. I looked for 30 minutes in deep holm and got 3 flowers. Not 3 different spawns. 3 flowers from -one- spawn.
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Actavia
Shandris
Actavia
1/18/2011
I dont know what all the fuss is about... :P oh wait i'm a Non raiding Herbalist. Cha Ching.
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Kalavan
Doomhammer
Kalavan
1/16/2011
the problem not enough herbs or one flask just takes to many flask there just not worth 250 gold each
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Ihooch
Shandris
Ihooch
1/16/2011
The root problem here is that there are just not enough herbs. Blizz should either up the respawn rate or add more nodes. And its not just whiptail. (On my server, heartblossom is the worst.)

I don't think the answer is reducing the number needed for flasks, because there are other uses for herbs, not just flasks.
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Dethstryk
Blackrock
Dethstryk
1/15/2011
This is a change I agree with.
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Skity
Thaurissan
Skity
1/14/2011
it also causes me great pain to see we have to wait till guild level 20 to see these become truly useful
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Skity
Thaurissan
Skity
1/14/2011
agree with Sherri, i don't understand the logic behind 7 and 20 either. it just doesn't make sense in a 10m or 25m raid to place a cauldron with 7 or 20 flasks in it.
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They are 7 and 20 to make you want the perk to make them 10 and 25
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Loppert
Medivh
Loppert
1/14/2011
Ty! At rate we were able to make flasks due to the competitiveness of Herb farming my guild would have been level 20 before unlocking this perk.
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Anitia
Thrall
Anitia
1/14/2011
Seen the article, read it, checked my guild status and it still says a requirement of 10,000
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Dotemupsilly
Area 52
Dotemupsilly
1/14/2011
@Anitia: If it reads the article again, it will realize that the article states that it was only a hotfix and that the in-game tool-tips will not be changed until the next client patch
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Faulso
Khadgar
Faulso
1/14/2011
'Everyone Needs a Logo' not mentioned... when will this be fixed?
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Matthewalcen
Aggramar
Matthewalcen
1/14/2011
@Faulso: had same prob here, i already have a guild logo, remade another, nothing...
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Sprolls
Wyrmrest Accord
Sprolls
1/13/2011
TY BLizz, We are not that big of a guild!
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Remnos
Thunderlord
Remnos
1/13/2011
Why not Instead of giving you flasks just give you a buff that is exactly the same as the Flask buff would be? and its only click-able once every 5 minutes (Making you not being able to click it 50 times and waste the cauldron like you could do and still can do to feasts making them disappear)
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Necropolis
Bonechewer
Necropolis
1/13/2011
i am glad they lowered it to 1,000 cuz i saw 10,000 and my jaw dropped cuz my guild is lvl 10 and we r no where near that amount lol thnx blizz
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Pukenui
Sen'jin
Pukenui
1/13/2011
Question.. Can the conjured flasks be used to create another cauldron?
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Dadrizzit
Azuremyst
Dadrizzit
1/17/2011
@Pukenui: No, as the flasks received from the cauldron are Flasks of Battle, not Flasks of Draconic Mind, Titanic Strength, etc.
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Holycao
Turalyon
Holycao
1/13/2011
Thank you GOD. I picked up Alchemy about a week ago to help my guild get those achievements...and it's been hell, to speak lightly of it.
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Urikslargda
Borean Tundra
Urikslargda
1/13/2011
Funny that this fix was announced so long ago and yet Battle.net still shows the old requirements.
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Tokà
Darkspear
Tokà
1/13/2011
BAHHH!

You should go down the hall (or were ever) have a pow-wow and get on the same page as Ghostcrawler... you know, the part where he sticks to his gunz and keeps the challenge alive!
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Bulnashtar
Blackwater Raiders
Bulnashtar
1/13/2011
This is very good, TY Bizzard. However is there a way to implement engineering better? engineering skill, besides mounts, is relatively low priority in retrospect to other skills.
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Orlon
Antonidas
Orlon
1/13/2011
This is a really good incentive to even make flasks, seeing as how each one is 24 herbs, 6 volatile life, and 1 crystal vial. You transform 12 flasks into 30 and they last 2 full hours.

if you compare, prismatic elixirs & any cata battle elixir of your choice gave you similar effects over the same 1 hour timespan, You could pick 225 in any secondary stat & a load of resistance ontop of kings and/or mark of the wild which means you get 25%+ more avg reduced raid damage by all magic types.

So as you can see, 6-12 deaths in 1 hour, running back, and getting raid buffed, vs. 1 hr of a buff that's madly expensive. Elixirs > Flasks. With guild achievements Flasks > Elixirs.

Here's how it breaks down at the end:
[normal flasks, +300 primary stat]
(24 herbs + 6 volatile life) x12 @1hr Duration
VS.
[big cauldron of battle @ lvl 25 guild, +300 primary stat]
(24 herbs + 6 volatile life) x30 @2hr Duration <--
VS.
[two elixirs, 225 stat + 90 resist]
(2 herbs) x2 @1hr Duration (but non persistent)
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Kamellade
Thorium Brotherhood
Kamellade
1/13/2011
A lot of people are going on about how by getting the guild perks you get the minimal 10/25 flask you need for your entire raid -after- you've made the rather costly 1000/3000 flasks to use the cauldrons in the first place. I'd like to point out that at the current leveling rate it takes around 3-4 months for a guild to reach level 20. IIRC there isn't actually a guild at 20 yet >.>. I'd double check, but as of this writing the Armory is down again. So yes soon it won't matter anymore for hardcore guilds because they will already be at the point, but what about new guilds starting up, smaller guilds, more casual guilds. They're always 3/5 flasks short for months before managing to get the level they need for their cauldron to finally meet their raid size. Insert point about you not needing the 10/30 size becuase you can just use 7/20s more than once comments here. On a side note at the people saying "I'm glad it takes hours of farming to make enough flasks for one night because the game should be hard" Spending a lot of time for little reward flying in circles and right clicking isn't hard, it's just time consuming with a good bit of irritating luck, and bad node placement mixed in to make you pull your hair out. It shouldn't take me more time to farm the mats for my consumables for a raid than the raid itself.
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Tsukinoki
Trollbane
Tsukinoki
1/13/2011
@Kamellade: And by bad node placement, you mean, for example, the lovely FLOATING TWILIGHT JASMINE in the Twilight Highlands...and the dreaded "tree herb" in Tol Barad by the spiders. Oh, golden minimap dot, torment me no more with your unpickableness!
Agreed, though, it shouldn't take more time to farm mats for the raid than the raid itself. Likewise, my guildies shouldn't expect to drop all the gold they made leveling to 85 on one week's worth of raiding, or be required to level an alchemist alt and spend a day farming mats for food and flasks. The amount required (and the cost for such) is a bit excessive.
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Kamellade
Thorium Brotherhood
Kamellade
1/13/2011
@Tsukinoki: Yes. Yes that was exactly what I was talking about.
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Lichkinglol
Burning Blade
Lichkinglol
1/12/2011
If u get the guild perks there will be no need for any of the cauldrons to be exactly 10/25
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Puntagnome
Lethon
Puntagnome
1/12/2011
First of all to all of those saying the guild progression system is for big guilds only. No, it's def. not. There is a daily cap on points you can earn towards guild progression and just by doing your dailies you can burn through a bit of it. If you have 20 guild members and they do dailies/run heroics/bg's you will get points towards it. It's not that difficult, I promise! If you log on every other day or less then this system wasn't designed for you anyways. I don't understand like stated earlier why it wouldn't be 10/25 flask ratio. Would def. make it a more viable option..
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Miskatonic
Area 52
Miskatonic
1/16/2011
@Puntagnome: The guild levelling system, no. The guild achievements, in many cases yes. No reward attached, but take a look at the glyph achievement and tell me small guilds can do that. Besides that if any guild did do that they would single handedly push the market on glyphs down to 1 silver each. But back to the guild progression system... problem I have with it is it kills new guilds or any that fall behind. Guild experience cap should be based on days since progression system was put in imho, not a daily limit. Hard enough recruiting active enough members to catch up without having your hard work go for nothing because you beat an arbitrary value for the day while still being levels behind.
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Horux
Stonemaul
Horux
1/12/2011
Why don't the cauldrons give the whole raid a flask? It pretty much defeats the purpose because we're having to spend 4 flasks and deathblood venom anyway. With this we are going to be using 7 total flasks to flask our raid instead of 10?
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Heilung
Garona
Heilung
1/12/2011
@Hôrcrux: Because it gives you incentive to level up and get the perk reqarding more flasks per cauldron. Blizzard does not want to cater to our every cry or desire, anymore. They are making the game more scrappy.
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Restochango
Proudmoore
Restochango
1/12/2011
@Heilung: This is dumb. The Big Cauldron uses 12 flasks... why not just make 10 flasks for the raid instead of 2 extra flasks for a cauldron? Total waste. It should be 10/25. I'd rather gather the mats for 10 separate flasks than for 12 just so everyone in the raid can have one, or have 3 people without flasks.
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Caïman
Aggramar
Caïman
1/13/2011
@Restochango: Most raids take more than an hour, for a 10 man you use the big cauldron and everyone takes 2, or you use 3 smaller ones. 10 separate flasks would be lucky to get you into the second boss on your first few 10 man runs.