Tol Barad Balance

Now that Cataclysm is out in the wild, more players are getting geared up and checking out Tol Barad, the new outdoor PvP zone. Today, we wanted to address some of the concerns players have expressed about the zone, including how challenging it can be to win as the attacking team, and provide some insight into our design approach. We also wanted to share some of the lessons we learned from Wintergrasp, discuss the difference between the two zones, and touch upon the recent hotfixes made to Honor Point gains and how we plan to improve Tol Barad going forward. We're confident this zone will provide meaningful and fun PvP for some time to come, but we also recognize additional tuning is required to ensure Tol Barad is everything we intend it to be.
As we mentioned earlier, the attacking faction is having a pretty tough time winning control of Tol Barad -- and we're OK with that, at least in theory. Here's why: When we set out to create Wintergrasp, one of the issues we dealt with was that we were never able to ensure the sides were even -- in fact, they rarely were. Because the smaller team would almost always be assured defeat, we attempted to address team-size imbalance by favoring the attacker. Control of Wintergrasp went back and forth, and the result was that battles lost their impact. On most realms the defenders became complacent, knowing they were likely to lose control of the zone, returning to re-take it when it was their turn to attack. The sides swapped back and forth every few hours, and Wintergrasp wasn’t so much about an epic struggle for a meaningful piece of land as it was a complicated game of leapfrog.
Since then we’ve devised mechanics that help ensure equal team sizes, and we took Wintergrasp's lessons to heart when we designed Tol Barad. Tol Barad is intentionally balanced so that it’s a challenge for the attackers, because we want to make sure that control of Tol Barad matters. For the defenders, there’s a sense of urgency that Wintergrasp didn't have -- if you lose it, you’re going to have a hell of a time taking it back. For the attackers, there are a number of rewards at stake -- such as access to the Baradin Hold raid and additional daily quests -- that we hope players feel are worth fighting for. That sort of tension is what we wanted from Wintergrasp, and what we believe Tol Barad can ultimately offer.
With that being said, we want winning Tol Barad to be a challenge for the attacking faction... but we don't want it to be impossible. Taking Tol Barad should be tough -- but right now it’s a little bit too tough, and it’s something we’re actively working to balance. Earlier, we attempted to temporarily address the issue by offering a far better reward to the winning attackers: Honor Points awarded for successfully attacking were increased tenfold, but that was such a great incentive that it ultimately undermined the spirit of competition. Since then, the reward for winning as an attacker has been brought back down to a more reasonable amount.
While we've already made minor adjustments to improve the gameplay and address select exploits, our job in Tol Barad is far from over. We ultimately want to make sure that any changes we make are all steps in the right direction, and we intend to make several updates in the next minor patch to address design and balance issues affecting attackers that we can't address with hotfixes. For example, we plan to alter the battle slightly so that a team with two bases captured can more quickly and easily capture the third, as opposed to a team with one or zero bases. This way, if the defenders turtle up, it'll be a little easier for the attackers to take their last base before the defense can take one of the attackers' other bases.
We've been reading your feedback, watching trends across our global realms, and fighting plenty of battles in Tol Barad ourselves to get a feel for what's working and what isn't, and we're committed to making Tol Barad a fun and engaging zone. We want owning the zone to be meaningful throughout the lifespan of the expansion -- and while the attackers may always face somewhat of an uphill battle, the defenders should feel much more pressure not to lose than they do currently. Just the same, the attacking faction should feel motivated to take Tol Barad back, but they shouldn't feel that the odds are insurmountable. So keep fighting the good fight, and we'll continue watching the battlefield and listening to your feedback.
Cory "Mumper" Stockton is the lead content designer on World of Warcraft and enjoys a good set of LEGOs.

Sen'jin
Daggerspine
Lightninghoof
Kirin Tor
Emerald Dream
Bladefist
Borean Tundra
Shattered Halls
I played everyday in Wintersgrasp, and sometimes we were outnumbered so severly that there was no hope of winning, but it isn't the battle grounds fault that one side didn't show up. It is like a grocery store blaming the customers for not shopping there. When your side fails because it is lacking participation in a battle ground, don't blame the opposite faction, or the mechanics of the game! Blame the players in your faction. Get people involved, announce the coming fight in trade, yell if you must. And when you fail, let the people on your side know that only 2 people showed up and you got creamed by the other 20 from the the opposing faction, but you still got 20 kills for being there.
The Tol Barad "rebalancing" act is wasting THIS customers time, because they are codling the little kiddies crying over a sc#@!@d knee. It isn't like losing is costing you much gold, grow up, get over it, wipe your nose.
Staghelm
Shattered Halls
Khaz'goroth
also if you are om Aman'Thul TB is very evenly matched with both alliance and horde winning. so i suggest you allaice players if you wanna win TB get some PVP gear and stop crying.
Kirin Tor
Shandris
Perhaps the only thing Blizz could do would be to offer some sort of instructions on how it works in an easy to find place. Either in game or on their site.
I've heard things over and over like, "we're outnumbered", "Horde keeps dropping raid to increase their numbers". Every time I have done a /who during a TB and then popped over to the Horde side and done the same, the numbers are exactly even(give or take 1 every now and then probably due to a new person queuing during my log out)and I have done this on multiple servers all with the same results. BTW, if you didn't know, there is a 5 person minimum per side that can enter before the numbers are supposed to be 1 to 1.
Don't get me wrong guys, TB has been the most frustrating experience in PVP for me as well. I don't come from a server where my faction(Alliance)always wins TB. On the contrary, TB has always been a struggle for us on Shandris. We have had our temporary win streaks but Horde has always come back to dominating with defense after defense after defense consecutively.
As much as it has angered me, I've come to accept after 9 months of pretty much daily TB's, that they just have better players on the Shandris Horde side and almost always have more healers in any given game.
Perhaps this is where your real frustrations should be directed, towards the people you play with. I have seen Shandris players over and over execute the same failed tactics with the same results in the end. TB is as much a race as it is a PVP event IMO. Our people may be able to take a base away from Horde, but when the base is clear or nearly clear, do they in any significant numbers charge to either reinforce our first base or to take the 3rd one while we may be able to take advantage of that capping speed bonus Blizzard implemented? Hell no, they sit there and fight 2 Horde with 12 people and then have a coffee and doughnut break after that, giving all the Horde they just killed plenty of time to rez and take our other base away from us before the last flag even begins to move in our direction. They just do not know what is going on half the time and the other half is just us being out PVP'd, period.
If TB needs to be "fixed", then why have the Shandris Horde always had such an easy time of winning it? They have no problem attacking when we have it either. If we gain TB we usually lose it the next game or the one after that, while during prime time hours Horde has easily held it 4 and sometimes 6 friggin times in a row on some days(granted in the last month or two it has gone back and forth more often than ever).
I'm not trying to flame anyone or diminish the claims of some about certain exploits that I have not personally experienced or looked into. I am just passionate about the game and have had fun times in there. If you just don't personally like TB and you do understand it's mechanics, fine, I can respect that. Just think some of ya are off base in pointing the finger at Blizzard for your bad experiences in their battleground.
TC guys
Shattered Halls
I was never bothered by being outnumbered in Wintersgrasp, sometimes I needed a good stomping.@Onetoomany:
Kirin Tor
Moon Guard
Shandris
Zuluhed
Kil'jaeden
Kalecgos
then it was outlands that became the populated area, people going for all those new mounts like the netherdrakes, the sky guard mounts, haala in nagrand to get the dark talbuks, not to mention the regular talbuks that took a long time to get rep for. but still noob area died out. then when u brought out WotLK, outlands died, the only place that ever stayed alive was Hell Fire because that's where 60-68 was people never went to other zones because they were new and had no clue about the epic mounts they could of gotten in those area's till they were level 80 then they didnt' even bother cuz they were doing dungeons and gearing up and ever went back. and now cata comes out, u take away portals from both shattrath and dalaran and only leave the portals to the main capitals. now SW and org are so populated there are people who crash. sure no one has a need to go to dalaran or shattrath now unless they need rep for other area's or wanna do the dailies and get achievments. but those area's aren't as populated because u took away the thing the made both of them useful, u took away the portals to the capitals. which now people have to fly around to get to other places unless they have all 6 portals to the other zones.
But my point is this, every area the use to be populated by everyone is now dead cept for the noob area's because u placed level cap content in those area's.
U revived a dead area, now why not before u even bring out the new expansion, put in some new patches that can help revive outlands and northrend with somelevel 85 content, bring in something into WG for 85's or bring in some new 85 content to the zones add new phaseing for 81-85 into the zones bring in quests or dailies or fights something that can revive outlands and northrend so everywhere is then populated agian, and bring back the capital portals to dalaran and shattrath.
sure bringing in content to outlands for 85's might really mess things up being that outlands is where the lore about the wild hammers, dragonmaw, as well as gorrash starts, but at least if u bring in phaseing the area's will be repopulated, and realm PvP can be revived once agian in halaa offering people a better chance at getting those mounts.
You don't have to worry about destroying the zones just bring in something that can offer more to the 85's that will bring them back, i mean ur already gonna change up dragonblight in the major patch comeing up. at least that's what it seams like. anyways hopefully u take up my idea to revive both outlands and northrend, before even bringing out the expansion.
Aerie Peak
Ursin
Aman'Thul
Staghelm
I came back a few weeks ago, and it is still the same mess. So far zero Alliance victories in TB since mi September.
This is a disgrace.
Scilla
Dragonmaw
Kalecgos
and it seams alliance has TB more often, the largest horde guild has ruined the econemy because they have over 700 members while other guilds are either 5-200 and most of them are inactive because they gave up on being in a realm where a guild has ruined everything by being TOO BIG.
Anyways, if you want to win TB, u can either find a guild that is willing to work together and listen to others to win TB even agianst the odds. OR you faction change to horde.
Norgannon
Since I can play only when I am not traveling, this is a little deflating. I can care less of the fairness of the game when my time is wasted.
Blizzard, please fix this bizarre 'enhancement' to BGs before I decide that paying for 3 (family) accounts isn't worth my money when my time is wasted. Good luck on the improvements, but please make it quick as I have limited patience for those that waste my time and money. While I am a 'geek' and love playing MMPORGs while not working, I fight to do so when my time can be spent on other more entertaining endeavors.
Crushridge
Aman'Thul
People had started saying that Defending TB 3 times in a row was hard work as it didnt take that long for the attackers to capture a base... i was ok with that..I like attacking.. but now i keep hearing that the teams are unbalanced... uneven numbers just like WG.
I hope thats not the case... Im on an Allied dominated server and will probably not go as often as i did.
Bloodhoof
Fenris
Fenris
Argent Dawn
As I read the comments I just chuckle. If you want it to be like WG, then go play the WG battleground. What fun is there in having the same BG twice? Each battleground provides a different playing experience and challenge to win. If you like the mechanics of what another battleground offers, then go play that one. Just because something is challenging doesn't mean that Blizzard was completely off on how they designed it. It probably means that you just want things handed to you with little to no effort and that just down plays the sense of reward when you do righteously earn it.
If things were truly imbalanced, then why would it be so easy for a side that normally dominates a server's TB to retake it back when they are the attacking team? My point being, that if you really think the attackers have a huge disadvantage, then by that reasoning it should be very easy for the controlling side to maintain control of TB, yet this is not the case on many servers. Take a second and really think about it.
Terenas
Galakrond
I LIKE PIE
I LIKE PIE
I LIKE PIE
I LIKE PIE=D=D=D=D=D=D=D=D=D=D=D=D=D=D=D=D=D=D=D=D=D=D=D=D=D=D=D=D=D=D=D=D=D=D=
Galakrond
Suramar
one last thing, the battle rez exploit still works, watched a horde rogue do it tonight at warden's vigal, we had it won till 20 horde poped from nowhere behind the building
Malygos
Zangarmarsh
This is why Tol Barad is broken. The lesser of the 2 factions on the server rarely feels motivated to take it because the odds are almost always insurmountable for them. Some serious revamping of the zone (I mean, somewhere close to a complete scrapping of the current mechanics and bring in something totally new) is necessary if you want people to even remotely start feeling the way you want them to about Tol Barad.