4.1 Preview -- Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms

4.1 Preview -- Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms

In patch 4.1 we'll be introducing Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms, a new system intended to lower queue times. Call to Arms will automatically detect which class role is currently the least represented in the queue, and offer them additional rewards for entering the Dungeon Finder queue and completing a random level-85 Heroic dungeon.

Any time the Dungeon Finder queue is longer than a few minutes for level-85 Heroics, the Call to Arms system kicks in and determines which role is the least represented. In the case of tanking being the least represented role, the "Call to Arms: Tanks" icon will display in the Dungeon Finder UI menu where class roles are selected, and will also display on the UI when the queue pops and you are selected to enter a dungeon. Regardless of your role, you'll always be able to see which role currently has been Called to Arms, if any.

Call to Arms is meant to lower wait times by offering additional rewards for queuing as the currently least represented role. To be eligible for the additional rewards you must solo queue for a random level-85 Heroic in the role that is currently being Called to Arms, and complete the dungeon by killing the final boss. Every time you hit these requirements (there is no daily limit) you'll receive a goodie bag that will contain some gold, a chance at a rare gem, a chance at a flask/potion, a good chance of receiving a non-combat pet (including cross faction pets), and a very rare chance at receiving a mount. The pets offered come from a wide variety of sources, and include companions like the Razzashi Hatchling, Cockatiel, and Tiny Sporebat, but the mounts are those specifically only available through dungeons (not raids), like the Reins of the Raven Lord from Sethekk Halls, Swift White Hawkstrider from Magister's Terrace, and Deathcharger's Reins from Stratholme.

This system is meant to address the unacceptable queue times currently being experienced by those that queue for the DPS role at max level. The long queue times are, of course, caused by a very simple lack of representation in the Dungeon Finder by tanks, and to some extent healers. We don't feel the tanking and healing roles have any inherent issues that are causing the representation disparity, except that fulfilling them carries more responsibility. Understandably, players prefer to take on that responsibility in more organized situations than what the Dungeon Finder offers, but perhaps we can bribe them a little. While this system gives tanks and healers something extra, the incentive is being provided so that we can help players in the DPS role get into more dungeons, get better gear, and continue progressing.

While the gold, gems, flasks, and elixirs are OK incentives, we knew we needed something more substantial. We had briefly considered Valor Points and epics, but decided that wouldn't be working toward the goal of helping DPS players progress, and ultimately wouldn't keep tanks and healers in the Dungeon Finder system for very long. We settled on pets and dungeon-found mounts as they’re cosmetic/achievement items that players tend to try to get on their own, so why not change that up and offer them a chance to get some of those elusive pets and mounts in a way that also helps other players? Even if they don't get a pet or mount, or get one they already have, the gold and other goodies still feel rewarding enough that it won't feel like a waste of effort.

We think it's a pretty solid incentive to get tanks and healers queuing, give max-level players another way to collect the pets and mounts they so desire, and above all, to improve wait times for DPS players sitting in queues. In the case of lower level dungeons, it's actually not uncommon for DPS to be the least represented role, and so if this new system works out and we're pleased with the results, we may consider applying this same mechanic to lower level dungeons as well.

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Kryptas
The Underbog
Kryptas
4/6/2011
@Alekah: Lol, is that a bad thing? There's majority pure dps queuing, queues take 40 mins or more. The game simply NEEDS more tanks and healers. More incentive for people to actually do that is needed.
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Itsnotmyfult
Khadgar
Itsnotmyfult
4/6/2011
@Alekah: I wouldn't call it discrimination. Let's say with queue and dungeon, it takes 100 minutes, if this saves 10 minutes, that's 10% faster, and 10% over time adds up to better gear a lot soon. If it's executed well, tanks with 333 ilvl gear can carried to 346 gear, then carry a grp on his own. It's not like the gear rewards are, say going to have haste on plate, or these mounts are brand new.
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Apparate
Shattered Hand
Apparate
4/6/2011
@Kryptas: There needs to be more demand for tanks (and to a lesser extent healers) in endgame content. There aren't a lot of tanks required in raiding content compared to the amount of DPS in comparison, and therefore people aren't given much reason to roll a tank unless they plan on sticking with 5-man content or they enjoy the play style.
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Subsistence
Dunemaul
Subsistence
4/6/2011
While I applaud blizzard for trying to find new ways to reduce that queue time for DPS, i have to question whether this is going too far. Additional gold, gems, elixirs, and maybe even a few Non-combat pets are one thing, but allowing them to just randomly get 5 man mounts is a little ridiculous. it extremely diminishes the value of having these mounts and makes it so these classes (that could have soloed the content far sooner than pure DPS classes) are getting another "bite at the apple". I admit i don't have an alternate solution to reducing queue time but honestly, mounts are a step too far.
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Ashalah
Barthilas
Ashalah
4/6/2011
@Subsistence: really? Because it seems it worked when they added mounts to Oculus. Before that, when Oculus popped as a random, at least half the group would leave instantly. After they added the extra rewards, people stayed. It was so bad in fact, that I was never able to finish H Oculus until after the extra rewards because nobody would stay till the end.
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Durogallo
Moon Guard
Durogallo
4/6/2011
It's already been said but I want to make my opinion known too. What do we as DPS get? Faster queues? I don't think that really measures up to what Tanks, primarily, and Healers will be rewarded with. I play all three roles on various toons, but my main is a DPS class I and feel slighted knowing that I don't have a fair chance at those same items on my main. I'll be surprised when the day comes when DPS is called to arms.
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Towercontrol
Rexxar
Towercontrol
4/6/2011
Or you could make tanking something people enjoy doing. Why don't you stop and ask yourselves, Blizzard, why there are no tanks?
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Tivia
The Venture Co
Tivia
4/6/2011
@Towercontrol: Because certain players don't want the responsibility of learning all the fights.

Tankin' good. Healin's good. DPSin's good. But tankin' and healin' are harder by far.
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Muspel
Korgath
Muspel
4/6/2011
@Towercontrol: Tanking is a blast. The issue is that it entails more interactivity than DPS, and a lot of people don't care for that.
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@Orson: If difficulty is the sole reason behind the ratio disparity, then they simply need to make those roles easier, or DPSing harder. Preferably the latter :)
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Zephån
Uther
Zephån
4/6/2011
@Orson: Not when im on my hunter and we have no other cc that knows what hes doing, cc'ing 3 or 4 things is a challenge.
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Towercontrol
Rexxar
Towercontrol
4/6/2011
@Orson:

Right, but if people aren't playing tanks, then it's inherently bigger than just responsibility. Healers have just as much responsibility, if not more, and there isn't a healer shortage like there is a tank shortage. All this will do is cause more problems.
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Theas
Nazjatar
Theas
4/6/2011
@Towercontrol: i dont know how you tank but i have two tanks and know many of people who do it and love it...Like they stated in the post people dont do it because it not fun or bad they dont do it because they cant handle the responsibility that comes with it.
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Towercontrol
Rexxar
Towercontrol
4/6/2011
@Erstein:

If a group has stupid players, everybody that is part of that group has to deal with them, not just the tank.
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Towercontrol
Rexxar
Towercontrol
4/6/2011
@Theas:

Many people do love tanking, but that doesn't change the fact that there is a severe tank shortage. If most people found tanking fun, there would be more tanks.
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@Towercontrol: Yep.

It seems Blizzard is intent on sticking with "This is how we've designed Tanking, and this is how we've designed dungeons. Any problems from now on out are not our problems." :P
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Towercontrol
Rexxar
Towercontrol
4/6/2011
@Real: Exactly.
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Apparate
Shattered Hand
Apparate
4/6/2011
@Towercontrol: My main is a shaman that is restricted to DPS or healing. If I could tank on this toon I would (insert Enhancement tanking joke here) but I can't. That being said, I can't be bothered to tank on my alts (my paladin, warrior, and DK all have tanking off-specs) when it doesn't benefit my main in some way now that tanks are suddenly being rewarded above other roles. I don't care about pets or mounts on my alts; I do on my main though.
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Theas
Nazjatar
Theas
4/6/2011
@Towercontrol: but how are they supposed to change it to make it fun? The difficulty in it has reduced dramaticly i dont how they can make it to were more people want to do it with out making it literally be consecrate hammer the end, d n d hearstrike end...
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Towercontrol
Rexxar
Towercontrol
4/6/2011
@Theas: I dunno, I don't design games. I just play them. ;)
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Bergtau
Blade's Edge
Bergtau
4/6/2011
@Orson:

Healing, maybe. Tanking, no. Tanking is DPS but you're supposed to have aggro. Positioning occurs for DPS too, and often there are specific mechanics that tanks just can't do. If tanking is harder than DPS, it's by a very very small margin.
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Towercontrol
Rexxar
Towercontrol
4/6/2011
@Apparate: Giving more classes a tanking spec would be cool. I'd be all for that.
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Varúlfur
Uther
Varúlfur
4/6/2011
@Orson: i can tank and heal theyre not hard learn your class and you will be fine
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Itsnotmyfult
Khadgar
Itsnotmyfult
4/6/2011
I believe this could work, but seems limited. If tanks/healers don't get the deserter debuff, this will be phenomonal. Let's face it, a healer with a 329 ilvl with 68k mana in stonecore is just disasterous. I know it stinks to have a tank leave bc of an undergeared healer and have to wait for healer to leave or requeue, but if the tank can leave and requeue again to improve his chances to kill the last boss and get the reward, it will help out the dps, just not the unlucky dps with the new healer.

Also, if a tank/healer could queue up with up to 2 dps of their choice, it could help out the dps on their server.
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Errydorus
Anvilmar
Errydorus
4/6/2011
@Itsnotmyfult: I really hope you are kidding. IMO tanks (ESPECIALLY tanks) should get the dungeon deserter debuff even if they are kicked. I hate seeing a tank enter a dungeon and decide he wants to be kicked instead of waiting 30 minutes for a debuff and refuses to do anything. I don't mind waiting but I think that would almost be worse than this current solution they've concocted. And I've seen healers do this as well. It all punishes the pure dps classes and I will NOT tolerate that crap. Again, find a different solution Blizz. NOW.
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Onni
Antonidas
Onni
4/6/2011
Blah even though I have most of those things I still don't like it.
Definitely some flaws with this.
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Emble
Wyrmrest Accord
Emble
4/6/2011
I can understand giving them gold, but mounts and companions? That is just stupid.
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Coaster
Tanaris
Coaster
4/6/2011
Blizzard.. honestly.. this is the best you can come up with? REally?

"Dear Tanks and Heals.. Just put up with DPS, and we'll give you a chance a free pony." Moronic.
If ANY dps EVER gets a chance a mount, .. well, who am I kidding,, we all know that will never happen, don't we?
WTG blizz. punish people for not having the correct strings attached.
/sigh
p.s. and do try to give ANYONE (dps) the line about "
it's actually not uncommon for DPS to be the least represented role, and so if this new system works out and we're pleased with the results, we may consider applying this same mechanic to lower level dungeons as well."
I don't know how many idiots would believe that, but I graduated high school some time ago..
Like someone else said.. just throw free loot at tanks and heals.
And to the people who are telling dps to shut up about it..
Get a clue, grow up, and let people get upset about something legitimate like this. If blizz were to never implement this, it wouldn't change anyone's roll. So really, why implement it now? We'll get the same 'fail tanks' and 'fail heals'. Just at a much faster rate, so they can get their chance a mount or pet.
And tell us, what do dps get again? Oh, that's right.. fail group after fail group, and maybe some points.
Good idea blizz,, freaking stellar.
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Muspel
Korgath
Muspel
4/6/2011
@Coaster: In low level dungeons, I often get instant DPS queues. It depends a lot on when you play, though.
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Yarrthas
Madoran
Yarrthas
4/6/2011
Sure, why not. I recall chaining heroics in wrath as a hobby because I could use professions to get gold out of it, and now that guild exp isnt as large a concern for me maybe I'll have time to tank randoms more often.

I'm not sure the way the vote to kick system works will be properly set up to handle the initial surge of dps geared dps specced "tanks" though. They'll need to be removed, and a lot of people will be waiting on cooldowns from kicking others like them.
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Vaerron
Azgalor
Vaerron
4/6/2011
Hmm.. I hope they realize that while yes, this will probably lower the queue times some, it's going to cause more problems than it fixes. First, this is going to do little more than convince DPS to fill in that "Tank" box on their queue without the appropriate gear... hell this is enough of a problem nowadays anyway. A warrior comes in to tank with arms gear and an obviously AH'ed mh/shield combo... Yes... let's encourage that sort of gameplay.

Don't misunderstand me Blizz, I am a big fan of the difficulty increase of dungeons in Cataclysm, but it's very much NOT conducive to pugging 5-mans at this first tier of content. Maybe when we get to t12/t13 it won't be so bad, but right now, some heroics are still pretty brutal, and even impossible with some pugs who cheese the ilvl system. And then when we initiate a vote kick because that enhancement shaman is pulling 4k dps in H-LC we get penalized as well.

I'm not normally one to join the angry mob, but I think you've got it all wrong here. As it is, I don't tank heroics without at LEAST 3/5 guildies. It's not becaues I don't enjoy tanking, because I do, it's just because I want to deal with a minimum of BS from others. I can trust my guild to not be bad, and I have yet to see much evidence to support my placing that same trust in 4 strangers. Oh sure, some pugs turn out alright, but those are the exception far more than the rule. I understand that tanks are seen as the "leader" of the group, and I am perfectly capable of leading a dungeon. Heck, I am the raid leader for my guild, and while we are nowhere near the "razor's edge" of progression, we're a very capable group of raiders, and I am proud to be in charge of them. The stress difference in leading a 5-man with 3 or 4 guildies in it, versus the stress of leading a 5-man with four people that I don't know from the guy at the LAN center down the street is night and day.

I guess if all that is meant to happen is lower the queue times, than you can probably call this a successful endeavor. It will certainly do that, at least for a while. Once people realize that they're going to get grouped up with kick-happy DPS who are waiting for the slightest hint of a screwup, or a tank who doesn't know which end of the shield faces outward... you'll see a lot of people just stop using the dungeon finder overall. I hope you seriously reconsider this blatant bribing of tanks (and the occasional healer).
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Darkestevil
Nesingwary
Darkestevil
4/6/2011
@Vaerron: Well said... shame it will probably fall on deaf ears.
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Kamirek
Velen
Kamirek
4/6/2011
@Vaerron: couldn't have said it better myself....i never do more than 1 a day cause whats the point, gear is hard enough to obtain IF any ever drops
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Hyto
Balnazzar
Hyto
4/6/2011
@Vaerron: Great comment. Exactly what I wanted to say. So afraid of people just "cheesing" (as you said) the dungeon finder with DPS gear and a shield. This system will mostly end up encouraging people to queue as tank/healer despite being ready/capable. Yes it will lower DPS queues for sure, but at what cost?

My Hunter may be able to get into a dungeon in under 10 minutes, but with a "tank" in full DPS gear who refuses to leave and can't be kicked for another 15 minutes or whatever what is the point? I'll just have to leave and wait re-queue only to possibly end up with the same thing.

Also I feel this will hurt guild groups. Blizz you worked hard at making guild achieves and rewards only to now say "you must solo queue" to get this benefit. Ouch.

I appretiate the effort guys, really I do. I just don't feel this is the correct solution. I guess we'll just have to wait and see how it turns out.
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Vaerron
Azgalor
Vaerron
4/6/2011
@Hyto: You brought up a really good point that I hadn't even thought of: the guild achieves. That's one of the best features Blizz added for Cataclysm (imo) and then this? Must queue solo to get it. I understand the need behind it, but really? That's just... well.. a step in the opposite direction for one of the coolest ideas for this x-pac.
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Greenseed
Spinebreaker
Greenseed
4/6/2011
giving Guild Exp to a tank or healer for Qing alone into Random can work good
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Razelda
Sargeras
Razelda
4/6/2011
I Agree this is going to create more problems then it fixes, I've been playing this game scene vanilla. I am one of the few players that remembers the old days when you start raiding at 51 and doing MC was a weekend fun run when you didn't need gear to get in them.

The Real Problem is with the caster DPS, 98% of the gear that is out is gear i don't want because the gear only hurts my DPS. take for example cookies stir stick, the only Viable DPS wand that has the correct stats that is needed for my class, I have been running Heroic Deadminds ever scene i turned 85 not even once has it doped. The other problem that i've notes is that gear isn't dropping for any of the classes that are in that run. there is about 10X more melee DPS gear then there is for caster DPS. the part that doesn't make any sense to me is the part where there are dungons that can not be done with out caster DPS in the group but yet none of the bosses in the dungon drops caster dps why should I run a heroic that doesn't drop gear for me. (aside from the Random for Valor points)

the other Big Problem with this Exasperation the DPS from the Caster DPS. we should be blowing tanks out of the water with our dps, But because AND I Quote from blizzerds forms "there is no magical Number that the developers strive to develop the Classes to achieve" ... Wait wait... This game is an RPG!!!!!! Numbers are a part of the GAME it's the reason you play an RPGs!!!! Granted it an mmoRPG, It's still an RPG!! D&D is 80% a numbers games. putting that aside, Tanks should not be pumping out 14K DPS tank spec with tank Gear when caster DPS are struggling to pump out 10k dps (and that a vary good player). I know my class Is really struggling, for the people that doesn't know what my class is, I'm a warlock (yes the Dieing Class.) I know that Fully Epic-ed out my classes DPS caps at 14k thats running full heroic epics. A rouge geared at that same level can in turn 19K easy in a raid. i am nothing more then a portable guild summoning stone now that gets replace with the "have group will Traval" spell. the part that really has me pissed about this patch is the notes there taking and changing stuff in every class (except warlocks) that will ether increase the DPS of that class or help it our in some other way, and what notes they do have for Warlocks that only address Affliction and Demo. See when Cath first came out there was a Glitch with the warlock Crit system, warlocks were meant to crit more often then what they are, even now as stand thy have not got'n the problem fixed. Blizzerd said they would have it fixed by this patch and yet nothing.
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Grixil
Spirestone
Grixil
4/6/2011
i have mixed feelings about this concept as well. for one thing most of my toons are either a healer or a tank so i cant say i share the pain of a 30 minute queue. But that being said i do understand where blizzard is coming from. i have tanked a lot of dungeons from level 1-85 and if theres one major common thread ive discovered its that the mentality of a lot of players who play dps classes is VERY poor.

despite blizzard doing everything they can to help dps watch their threat and control mobs there are still a lot of stupid, overactive dps players who just wont cooperate. and what happens when you end up in a group with a dps who wont watch their target or their threat? you end up with the tank being blamed for not keeping threat, then the healer being blamed for the tank being over whelmed and dying. ive gotten bad attitudes from dps players on both my healer and my tank and it definitely makes me less likely to queue for a heroic after it happens. Blizzard is doing this to make up for the horrible treatment tanks and healers get from dps classes in heroics and regular dungeons. Until these dps players learn to be more respectful and more aware of what is expected of them, it sort of forces blizzard to come up with these ideas to basically bribe us tanks and healers to put up with all the bad attitudes so that the dps players can get a dungeon done. So for all you people complaining about this being a bad idea, ask yourself if your one of those players on a dps class that is making the tank and healers job harder than it should be. until the dps players learn to help the group more these ideas are going to keep being implimented in game.
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Conjurebeer
Drakkari
Conjurebeer
4/6/2011
mmmm not fair... i farmed Reins of the Raven Lord for one year....
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Catacombkid
Sargeras
Catacombkid
4/6/2011
@Beerbeard: You don't know what the drop percentage will be on that though. It could be something like 0.00000000000000012% drop chance. Tanks might have to farm for a year to get it. And they might get one of the other rare mounts instead. But I understand what you mean, I think new mounts would be a better solution than mounts that people worked their tails off to get from old content.