Dev Watercooler -- Critical Hits (And Misses)

Dev Watercooler -- Critical Hits (And Misses)

‘Dev Watercooler’ is a blog series that provides an inside look into the thoughts and discussions happening within the World of Warcraft development team. In our first entry, Lead Systems Designer Greg "Ghostcrawler" Street laid down a few ground rules:

  1. No promises.
  2. Don’t read too much between the lines.
  3. No whining about the choice of topics we cover.

 

Critical History Lesson

In the original combat rules of World of Warcraft, melee classes could get 200% crits while casters could only get 150% crits. This was back when all the designers presumably played rogues instead of mages, which according to the forums is what we all play now (which makes our dungeon testing interesting, I gotta tell you.)

Over time, we added talents to allow various casters to get 200% crits as well. Warlocks “could” spend 5 points on the Ruin talent, for example, which you pretty much had to do to be a good warlock. As part of the Cataclysm talent tree evolutions we decided all DPS specs should be able to get 200% crits without investing talent points. There are still some inconsistencies though. Death knights can get 200% crits with both their melee and spell effects, while Assassination rogues get 200% crits with their physical attacks but only 150% crits with their poisons. Healers have always gotten 150% crits, both with their damage-dealing spells and with heals.

The overall design could be described as one that is simple to learn but complex to master. Or put another way, you know most of what you need to know if you’re told that crits do more damage. How much extra damage they do is one of those nuances that more experienced players learn over time and one of the things that makes classes feel different.

Or does it?

You could argue that we’re just keeping old rules that don’t really benefit the game. Is it very interesting that rogue poisons or Enhancement Lightning Bolts don’t have big crits? Does it make you feel different when you pick those classes or specs? Does it feel rewarding when you learn those subtle distinctions? I’d posit perhaps not. Homogenization is something we fight against all the time and one of the primary reasons that we don’t make class A’s ability work just like class B’s ability.

 

Homogenization -- A Dirty Word

If I can be snarky for a moment, players tend to beat the “homogenization!” drum too emphatically when they are losing something that is overpowered, and like to mock it as “flavor!” when we refuse to give them a cool ability that another class has.

Too much homogenization is a bad thing, no question. But do weird crit rules really fall into that category? There is a difference between being complex (which adds depth) and being complicated (which might just add confusion). We’d rather spend our “complexity points” on things that are really meaningful differences. Pick Assassination because you like daggers or poisons or maybe Rupture, not because you like small crits.

There are balance issues to consider too. Assassination rogues are never going to value crit as much as other characters are as long as some of their crits are smaller. We ran into the same issue with the damage-over-time-based specs when their dots couldn’t crit.

 

Healers Love Big Numbers Too

It can be an issue for healing as well. In Lich King, critical heals were virtually wasted because much of the time they were going to be overhealing. In Cataclysm, where healer mana matters more and even big heals can’t trivially top someone off, crits are more valuable. But they aren’t valuable enough. Getting 10% haste allows you to get a heal to a target 10% faster. Getting 10% crit allows you to heal a target 5% more. Is it any wonder that crit tends to get devalued for most healers? Resto shaman like it, but look at how many talents they have that make crits better for them. We’re strongly considering just letting all heals crit for double, just like most attacks. We don’t think this would have huge PvE consequences. Healers will heal for a little more, but even if they choose to start stacking crit, they’re going to do that at the expense of Haste, Mastery or Spirit. It could have bigger PvP consequences. Most PvP healers don’t have crit chances beyond say 10% or so, so they aren’t going to crit often.

We’ve been considering whether healing is too strong in PvP anyway. You may have noticed that we made the tooltips for Mortal Strike and equivalent debuffs intentionally vague for 4.1. As I write this, those debuffs are still at 10% healing, but we’re concerned that healing is too hard to counter and we might change that number. Changing it back to 50% would probably lead to the Mortal Strike debuff being mandatory for Arena comps again, but we never got much of a chance to see its effects at say 20%. A 20% Mortal Strike debuff could easily counter any excessive healing caused by 200% crits.

 

Changes Ahead?

Letting rogues and Enhancement shaman get 200% crits with non-physical damage would be a larger change, and not the kind of thing we would do mid-expansion. But it’s definitely something we’re considering for the future. That would only leave the damage spells cast by healers at the 150% crit range. We think we could make those full 200% crits as well. If we want to make sure the DPS specs still do a lot more damage, we have the knobs to do that. For example, we could buff passives such as Moonfury (the damage bonus for Balance druids) or Shadow Power (the damage bonus for Shadow priests) to make sure their spells still landed a lot harder than the healing specs did, even if the healers got big crits.

If we made all those changes, then any crit in the game would be at 200%. It would be a very simple rule, and I’d argue any loss of class distinction is more than made up for by the positive balance ramifications. As always with this blog series, this is just speculation. You’re more likely to see 200% healing crits sooner, but even that isn’t something we’ve fully embraced yet. It’s just the kind of thing we discuss when hanging out at the bar... er, I mean watercooler.

 

Greg “Ghostcrawler” Street is the lead systems designer for World of Warcraft. He crits on a 19 or 20.

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Comments (653)

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Forborn
Bladefist
Forborn
4/12/2012
Ok here is my two cence on the crit thing. In Lord of the Rings Online everyone does at base 150% DMG on crits melee, ranged, and healers. They also have a chance to devastate a hit for at base 200%. Cirting has a higher chance to of landing than devastse.
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Castian
Darrowmere
Castian
3/30/2012
Well I love how u all just complain toward the pvp aspect of the game. How about learn ur class. Why keep adding and taking away from a class u guys think is OP in PVP and making it worse for us PVE players.
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Undeadyweady
Bleeding Hollow
Undeadyweady
3/25/2012
pie
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Houniao
Bladefist
Houniao
3/4/2012
I would love to hear a discussion about dispels which need a nerf imo. At the very least the mana cost should be MUCH higher for healing classes. So tired of 2s with a healer/melee class and the healer doesn't even heal but spams dispel after dispel and loses next to zero mana. For an ability that is so incredibly op the healers should have to make a choice when to use a dispel rather than just spam it with no consequences. Mages have a spell steal , however the mana cost was raised so that we have to chose when to use it or run completely out of mana. Not the case with healers and a near bottomless pool of mana. So I guess I would love a "watercooler" blog to address where dispels are headed so I know whether running 2s is worth my time. In 3s or more dispels are op but not nearly the same, as heals has to keep both of his team mates in mind and decide if a dispel or heal is more important
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Shev
Firetree
Shev
3/3/2012
i like the getting rid of healers in BG's the're way too OP!!
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Coachswag
Shadowmoon
Coachswag
2/14/2012
Hunters need the drop effect back. I wouldn't mind sacraficing some of my health for more of a drop effect.(pvp not free casting point of view)
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Bloodfreeze
Cho'gall
Bloodfreeze
2/14/2012
It seems that every patch is a "balance" patch now. I will consider it balanced when 1. Mages arent the most OP class in every category of play 2. Warlocks get back to being a force in BG's. I remember BG's where people would scream in chat "get that damn lock" and the lock would burn through 3-5 toons and still jump around looking for more. I was one shoted on my pali tank by a destro lock back in BC...what happened to all of that for locks? Balance patch? Really....for who?
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Nobody ever thinks about us warriors in PvP Arena's or RBG's shame people get rolled in BG's that's what we're balanced around right?...
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Shífty
Gundrak
Shífty
2/10/2012
What you guys need to understand is it is very hard to keep every class and spec all equal so everyone is happy, think of how many spec and classes there are, i would like to see you do that. Also every class should have another class thats really hard to kill and one easy to kill which they have done. Rogues can take warlocks, rogues find it hard to take DK's. DK's can take mages, Dk's cant take pallys.
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Lexxia
Azuremyst
Lexxia
2/28/2012
@Shífty: Downing a DK is about the same difficulty as any other class, but a pally? Nearly impossible!!
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Houniao
Bladefist
Houniao
3/3/2012
@Shífty: mmmm i would say mages pwn dks
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Kyrori
Altar of Storms
Kyrori
2/10/2012
It all seems just numbers to me, and mages will still 3-4 shot me with full arcane blast stack and kill me in a single deepfreeze/silence combo with 4500+ resil
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Houniao
Bladefist
Houniao
3/3/2012
@Kyrori: if your getting killed by an arc mage its because u didnt target him. arc is still a glass cannon with little survivability
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Watercooler, the problem with the fury warrior is that he always runs out of rage. rage needs to be how well he is about to crit, the more rage the higher the warrior will crit. the rage cost is too high. its stupid that any shout cost anything. its stupid that that the warrior has to do battle shout to build rage just so he can fight. i have been caught on my mount and being attacked and i still have no rage to attack. its stupid that i have to jump from stances to stances. the healing is stupid too... dont you get tired of hearing that its stupid? now who really wouldnt want what i am about to say? the warrior's stance should just change his trees. giving him full option to all three trees when he does. the druid can go from melee to tank at no cost. if there is a cost its not must from rage to energy and still have great healing. i am not mad about that. i want the warrior to be more versitle.. when he changes stances from fury to tank his off hand sword changes to his shield and his whole tree opens up to whatever he switched to. the next thing is the healing... it needs to go... the warrior needs to start with 1000 more resilience than any other toon. it sould take 5 toons to take him down like it take five toons to take down a healer. but then you say he can dps. it doesnt matter he souldnt be able to heal or be healed because of tough skin.
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Cantle
Argent Dawn
Cantle
5/13/2012
@Zeik: Well, you see zeik, a druid has little in common with a warr besides its use of rage in one form. If they say gave warrs full rage at beginning of a fight, and the freedom to switch from dps to tank, that'd just be another unfair edge. And they do not deserve any more resil then the rest of he classes, they are already hard enough for a lot of classes to kill now. Giving some warr with 4.5k resil another 1k would be adding wood to the fire and basicaly casuing another complete problem. They'd be liek prot pallies in woltk that could kill you in their 5 sec stun and have the worst gear possible.
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Waydelan
Hydraxis
Waydelan
2/9/2012
how do i get it lol
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Cloberrella
Argent Dawn
Cloberrella
1/30/2012
i like to play with almost all the classes... and sometimes all the specs.... (its getting costly on the gold to spec change so much) and i like the feel of a different experiance but to be honest its getting really annoying that classes are really starting to feel the same to me...
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Versez
Alterac Mountains
Versez
9/28/2011
Assassination isn't the primary PvP spec currently.
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Kyrori
Altar of Storms
Kyrori
2/10/2012
@Versez: "Primary PvP spec" is personal preference to each player, I've seen high rated assassination rogues. Especially on Darkspear and Kel'Thuzad realms.
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Mindexsin
Farstriders
Mindexsin
9/11/2011
well that would be help full to some hunters if there pets arnt like tanks and for hunter who do raids
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Àsh
Stormscale
Àsh
9/10/2011
I like having a lot of class difference. I play most of the classes and it's good to switch toons and have a totaly different way of going about things. Kittys and rogues are basicly the same thing and hunters have everyones abilities. kkep going down that road and you might as well just have 1 class 3 specs and an expanded barber shop with 300 pages of hairslyle to make you feel different.
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Mortho
Arathor
Mortho
9/9/2011
I think you need to do what you do, meaning dont leson so much to the bs ppl like this Spew out.
i have my side of things too like the lake of things outsde of dugeon/raiding a warrior can do, but you have to do 2 things.
1 make it fun
2 make it balanced
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Teensie
Nazgrel
Teensie
9/9/2011
"This was back when all the designers presumably played rogues instead of mages, which according to the forums is what we all play now (which makes our dungeon testing interesting, I gotta tell you.)"

The consensus now is that Ghostcrawler plays a mage, as long as that is "true" then I'm ok with that! =)
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Peephole
Zangarmarsh
Peephole
8/19/2011
Rock, Paper, Scissors. (and class mechanics)
Giving everyone everyone else's abilities? Too many cooks spoil the broth.
If you homogenize too much it deletes the purpose of certain class advantages. I like Throw Down but it's a bit much. I'd much rather have to Stance Dance for cools and have to actually use my class mechanics. Poses more of a challenge and separates the good players from the not-as-good players but what do I know? I'm just another comment on a forum.
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Igniz
Kel'Thuzad
Igniz
6/10/2011
Homogenization is evil to me in that I can't have a Blessing of Might and Abomination's Might on at the same time. My Fel Intelligence is useless etc. Either more unique buffs or let them stack :(
I also hate how my racial is USELESS because it doesn't stack with Motw/Kings.
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Lavennator
Garithos
Lavennator
6/9/2011
I know things are supposed to be balanced and everything now at 85. and i sure this may seem pretty obvious but im thinking the problem with crit now is not the damage they deal but the amount of them that a player can get especially as a melee. (remember when weapon skills went away? lets not forget that each point granted a melee .04% to crit which at 500+ is a pretty big bonus to just lose) with that being said i also feel that critting is fun, the amount of damage or healing will be larger, it will sound louder and more prominent than a non crit, and will also be more satisfying knowing that your ability critted. while i still feel overall things are okay, id like to see more crits overall, especially as a tank where a crit chance will likely be under 1% by default. think about it, why would a level 85 only crit less then 1% of the time whereas even a level 60 basically had a set 5% crit rate.
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1 i like it i think u do know what your doing. but if every 1 is saying u guys play mages maybe theres a reason for that u know because there crazy op and need to be nerfed warrior agaist mage any 1 will tell u not a fear fight so pls do something about that soon
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Discpriest
Nesingwary
Discpriest
9/9/2011
@Axess: when the hell has a warrior ever stood a chance against a mage? why would you ever think they would...
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Druiddz
Alterac Mountains
Druiddz
4/6/2012
@Discpriest: I've seen it. Good frost mage vs Good arms warrior. Warrior destroyed.
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Grommi
Uther
Grommi
6/7/2011
Did I miss the miss portion of this article? DAMNIT. 27 % miss chance ftl.
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Strengthen
Stormrage
Strengthen
6/14/2011
@Grommi: oh yeah!
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Jolleebindu
Skywall
Jolleebindu
5/11/2011
I thought about this a while ago but forgot to comment on it. I like the idea of balancing the throughput of crit with respect to the other stats. However making some heals heal for double has the chance of making heals very spiky. Very spiky heals would be more prone to cause rng deaths and likely result in more over-healing. I would suggest making heally crit give a slightly higher percent but give a smaller bonus i.e. instead of 10% crit with crit heals healing for 200% have 13% crit with 160% healing bonus (both of which would give comparable healing throughput bonuses).
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Aienma
Tichondrius
Aienma
4/27/2011
I am not trying to be rude or rip into anyone, but I call these DevWatercooler things propaganda.

Why do I say this?

"This was back when all the designers presumably played rogues instead of mages, which according to the forums is what we all play now"-This is called Ad Hominem (attacking your opponent, as opposed to attacking their arguments.)

They discourage using certain words like "homonization." Projecting a negative image in order to discredit it (called Transfer.)

And the whole crit topic-Bringing up a topic in order to distract from the real issue.

I am probably totally wrong, but this is how I feel.

They are cool that it lets customers know what the devs are thinking and then allow the customers to provide feedback.

Something bothers me about how these Watercooler things are written though.
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Atrino
Thaurissan
Atrino
5/8/2011
@Aienma: "No promises.
Don’t read too much between the lines.
No whining about the choice of topics we cover."
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Gulansi
Caelestrasz
Gulansi
6/2/2011
@Aienma: i find it funny how you are insulted by the "This was back when all the designers presumably played rogues instead of mages" bit, as they are only taking a stab at those who qq on the forums about how UP their class was and how OP other classes were. imo, players have said enough offencive things on the forums to make that kind of insult laughable.
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Mathaldel
Wyrmrest Accord
Mathaldel
6/5/2011
@Aienma: And by that logic, defending your actions to anyone at all in a written sense is propaganda, and hence, a bad thing.

The rib-jabbing at forum-goers about the Devs all playing one class or the other is deserved, in my opinion. And funny.
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Aienma
Tichondrius
Aienma
6/29/2011
@Aienma: lol well dont read too much into what i typed, and no qq
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Discpriest
Nesingwary
Discpriest
9/9/2011
@Aienma: Aienma made valid points, and Mathaldel, you are clueless.

I really doubt the water cooler is intended to be a serious explanation, and really reads too sarcastic and a little haughty in tone.

Ghostcrawler needs and editor really.
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Discpriest
Nesingwary
Discpriest
9/9/2011
@Discpriest: It is kind of funny when he says "Can I be snarky for a moment?" presumably meant to frame just the following paragraph, but in reality most of his posts are heavily snarky and widely defensive and conveys to the reader a sense of weakness in Ghostcrawler, i.e. he is more concerned with defending his positions, than adjusting them. He is probably one of the reasons blizz is losing a lot of customers.

Its become the World of Ghostcraft, and what he envisions the game needs to be.
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Discpriest
Nesingwary
Discpriest
9/9/2011
@Discpriest: Last but not least, his rule of the day is homogenizing everything.

I dont think he started it, but it is definately pushed now.

All of the so called "problems" that have been "fixed" were part of the fun.

I played Spriest in BC and I remember when I first started end game and learned that, well, I was gimped in dps, I was a bit disheartened. But then i played into my roll of mana battery and honestly enjoyed the hell out of it. Having to learn priority based on mana efficiency and big numbers, plus the secret satisfaction that you contributed to the win in a unique way, some DPS and a lot of mana for your healers.

Plus it had the benefit of pushing more priests into healing when they just didnt get the spriest concept.

The only actual problem with the spriest role was how in upper tier raiding, the mana battery just wasnt needed as much due to gear levels. So we all hit brick walls in tiers. But that kind of class diversity is missed