Dev Watercooler -- Number of Abilities

Dev Watercooler -- Number of Abilities

‘Dev Watercooler’ is a blog series that provides an inside look into the thoughts and discussions happening within the World of Warcraft development team. In our first entry, Lead Systems Designer Greg "Ghostcrawler" Street laid down a few ground rules:
 

  1. No promises.
  2. Don’t read too much between the lines.
  3. No whining about the choice of topics we cover.

 

How Big Is Your Spellbook?

     How many abilities should a max-level class have? This is something I ponder at least once a day and is a regular topic in nearly all of our class design meetings. Even if you pick a magic number, how many of those should be core rotational abilities versus abilities that are used rarely?

Each class has a lot of spells and abilities -- the hunter has over 60, including the various forms of tracking. Despite our pruning abilities for many classes, there are still probably too many overall. In vanilla, most classes had one ability they used much of the time for damage or healing. Other abilities were situational or, to be honest, not used at all. In more recent expansions, we’ve tried to develop actual rotations for all 30 talent trees so that you’re hitting more than one button most of the time.

When we talk about class “rotations” we’re just using that term as shorthand for the abilities you tend to use often, as opposed to situational abilities. In this context “rotations” aren’t limited just to classes who cycle through buttons A, B, and C in that order. It just means “stuff you use a lot.”

Kidney Shot is a situational ability. You wouldn’t want to use it every time it was off cooldown. Envenom is a rotational ability. You might not want to use it the moment it’s off cooldown, depending on what else is going on, but you’ll still get around to it pretty quickly. Cold Blood straddles the fence. It’s rotational in that your DPS will drop if you ignore it, but you can’t spam it because it has a cooldown. All three buttons require space on your action bar. You might scoot Kidney Shot off to the side if you’re a raiding rogue, but it probably commands a prominent hotkey if you PvP a lot.

What's the Magic Number?

     There isn’t a magic number for how many rotational abilities a class needs, but we find that about four is the sweet spot. (Warning: four is not a magic number. Please don’t “helpfully” point out classes with more than four abilities as candidates for immediate design overhauls.) Elemental shaman, for example, get most of their damage from Lightning Bolt, Lava Burst, Flame Shock, and Earth Shock.

Many more abilities than four and it’s hard for us to carve off niches for them. Fewer than that, and the characters can become boring to play. We’ve tried to make it clearer about which are your rotational abilities (e.g. Overpower is for Arms warriors, not generally for Fury or Protection warriors), and we’ll try to get even better about this in the future.

We generally think of rotations as mechanics for DPS classes, but they apply to tanks as well and to a lesser extent, healers. Protection warriors use Shield Slam, Revenge, Devastate, and Heroic Strike as their single-target threat abilities. They also use Demoralizing Shout, Thunder Clap, and Shield Block, pretty much on cooldown. Given the number of situational abilities warriors also have, and that they prioritize different abilities when attacking multiple targets, you can argue that Prot warriors have too many abilities. To my mind, Demoralizing Shout is the least interesting one and the first candidate to cut. (We would have to cut the equivalent debuffs from all sources in order to prevent this from just being a warrior nerf of course.) We could also have Devastate completely replace Sunder Armor (i.e. Sunder Armor vanishes from your Spell Book) so there is no confusion about whether Sunder should ever be used again. That would help to get a few buttons off the bar.

Healers have less of a rotation, since much of what they are doing is always highly situational. However, Holy paladins do have builders and finishers, and other healers want to get their HoTs up before switching to cast-time heals, etc. All healers still have a group of core spells though. For a Holy priest healing a single target, these are Heal, Flash Heal, Greater Heal, Renew, and Holy Word: Serenity. If we gave healers a new healing spell, it would need to distinguish itself from those spells in some meaningful way, else it or one of the existing spells risks getting crowded out. Flash Heal is often the heal that risks getting crowded out most often, since so many of the healer talents give them more situational-ish emergency buttons, such as Penance and Power Word: Shield for priests.

It's Complicated

     I’ve stuck with long-ish single target rotations -- the kind you’d use against a dungeon or raid boss -- for the most part, but of course it isn’t always that simple. As you’re leveling, you’re killing things very quickly, so applying long DoTs isn’t always worth the effort. A Feral druid could stealth behind every quest mob and open with Shred (or even Ravage), but for the most part it’s easier just to Mangle targets down and spend combo points on Savage Roar or possibly Ferocious Bite, since the target won’t live long enough for Rip to really do its job. These “quick kill” rotations can also come into group play where you’re dealing with adds that can’t be AE’d down for whatever reason (such as the risk of breaking CC). A Shadow priest might use Mind Spike in these scenarios rather than their full dot and Mind Flay rotation.

On the topic of AE, some specs have some fairly interesting AE rotations, such as Fire mages (Flame Orb, Flamestrike, Combustion, Living Bomb) and Survival hunters (Serpent Spread, Explosive Trap and Multi-Shot). Other specs have really simple rotations, such as channeling a targeted spell over and over. Boring. Going forward, we’re going to make more of an effort to make sure everyone has a reasonable AE rotation that at least involves more than one button. Part of the reason we don’t want groups just AE’ing down everything in dungeons that they don’t yet overgear is because we think the gameplay is less compelling. Adding a little more depth than just channeling Blizzard would encourage us to add more situations where AE is the right thing to do.

The Human Factor

     Rotations are very different in PvP as well, where uninterrupted time to sit there and do max DPS is in very short supply. On the other hand, all of those situational abilities (crowd control, dispels, cooldowns etc.) are at a premium in PvP and very often have an even bigger effect on the outcome of a fight than the core abilities do. It is tempting, and to be fair sometimes appropriate, to solve class balance problems by handing out new abilities to make a particular class or talent spec more attractive to a team or at least more viable overall.

We can do this sometimes by tweaking existing abilities, but there is also a risk of “kitchen sinking” an ability. If a button does too many things, then you’re sometimes asked to say use an offensive ability for defensive utility or apply a debuff you don’t really want to mess with in order to get an ancillary benefit. We can cut down on potential confusion by giving similar or even identical abilities to multiple classes (now you only need to learn the name, icon and spell effect of one ability instead of a half-dozen), but too much of that risks class homogenization as well.

Because there are so many different scenarios (PvP, AE, quick kill, and long kill), classes end up with a lot of different rotational and situational abilities that you all are asked to manage and master. Your action bars fill up. Now add in potions and other consumables, mounts, trinkets, professions, and a potential host of macros, and your action bars get very full. Designers also feel a lot of pressure to fix neglected abilities rather than cutting them, even though pruning is often the wiser (but unpopular!) solution. An additional complication is that players expect (and rightfully so!) to gain a new ability or two whenever we increase the level cap. Very powerful situational abilities can serve this role, such as Ring of Frost, but players often react more positively when they gain a new rotational ability that changes up their second-to-second play style, like say Colossus Smash or Unleash Elements.

Too Many to Handle?

     So when do we cross over from having “enough” cool abilities to “too many” cool abilities? The depth that comes from lots and lots of content can feel cool to a veteran player, but even for them, the intended role and nuance of every ability can become blurred. For the new or returning player, it just becomes incomprehensible.

A warrior who took some time off after Lich King and then came back to Cataclysm recently would have to relearn her rotation. Raging Blow? What’s that about? Yeah, it might be more interesting than just spamming Bloodthirst, Heroic Strike, and Whirlwind (even on single targets) like Fury warriors did in Icecrown Citadel, but it’s also just one more thing to learn. Even if the new rotation itself isn’t all that complicated, the fact that the design changed over time makes it feel more confusing than it really is at any one moment in time.

Also remember, that to be the best that you can be, you need to understand the abilities of every class, not just your own. Yikes. We designers have to be vigilant to keep complexity at a manageable level, not just for veterans who are active on the forums, but for returning players who want to see what changes Cataclysm brought to the game.

 

Greg “Ghostcrawler” Street is the lead systems designer for World of Warcraft. He prefers Greek mythology over Roman. Cooler names.

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Shædessa
Bladefist
Shædessa
5/9/2012
What if using different weapons caused certain abilities to act differently? For example, Kidney Shot. If it reacted differently based on your main hand weapon, wouldn't that be an interesting mechanic? With a mace it could stun like it does now, with a dagger or sword it could cause a bleed, and with an axe it could have a regular dmg component and high crit.... hey, I just combined Kidney Shot, Garrote, and Ambush into one key... with only a weapon swap to choose what it does! Ambush is typically the goto ability when hitting from stealth is concerned... but situationally you may use Garrote or Kidney Shot... and in those situations you usually have the chance to switch weapon first, for example pvp would use Kidney Shot much more often and would thus keep a mace equipped. You could further specify some abilities as using offhand like Shiv does, making it easier to condense abilites based on weapon type and still have enough available for full rotations no matter the weapon choices in use. If you could find a way to condense certain other abilities like that across all classes and specs, it would cut down on ability bar bloat.
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@Shædessa: but then that would make it so that you would want to use that certain weapon type because u like to use that type of ability. For example your kidney shot idea: i might want to use my axe overall due to the dmg. Also that would mean u would have to get Multiple of different item types instead of just focusing on just your daggers. That would mean more farming ehh?
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Fransua
Destromath
Fransua
5/3/2012
First of all: Greek Mythology does have cooler names. Cooler myths 80% of the time as well.

Secondly: This druid is the second character I ever made. (Because I got lost trying to find the right realm some how.) Deleted the first character and this druid has been my main ever since. I always play a healer and how to play a resto druid changes in a big way approximately every expansion. That being said, I'm still here. So I (and perhaps others) will most likely keep playing and figure out how to best do it no matter what you throw at us.

My main issue is one you stated closer to the end. I am a collecter. I collect mounts, companions (thank goodness we have a new system for that now [145 and counting], and ways to transform myself. And I have favorites of each of these. I hate going through my bags as those are still muddled with gear and keepsakes and whatnots so I put them on my bars.

I currently have two or three add-ons just to give me more bars and handle them better. I perhaps have more keybinds than I do on my original bar. (Especially on my pvp rogue!)

Conclusion: I'm pretty sure we'll keep playing and figure it out no matter what you give us, but we're running out of space. On bars and on the screen. I wouldn't mind cutting down on my heals just to have a bit more space in the matter.

As always, good luck with your decision. I look forward to the outcome.
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Klaurik
Moon Guard
Klaurik
5/2/2012
I don't know where these figures are coming from. Lets hope its not a blunder.

will be interesting atleast.
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Cat
Magtheridon
Cat
4/29/2012
HISSSSSS
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Santaclause
Anvilmar
Santaclause
4/29/2012
The thing I like most about expansions, is that it changes everything. If you're going to wait 2-3 years for an expansion, then the game needs to be drastically different so it doesnt' become just more of the same thing. I look forward to new talent trees, glyphs, spells, designs, features, etc.. It's the only thing that turely makes the game different. I like relearning the different classes, seeing completely new or different spells, figuring out how to use them and when, trying out different combinations, etc...

If you didn't have this, an expansion would simply be additional quests, dungeons and raids....more of the same...boring!
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Bàmaman
Elune
Bàmaman
4/13/2012
Hey Blizzard , Have you heard of the old saying, DON"T TRY TO FIX SOMETHING IF IT AIN'T BROKEN. Do us all a favor and leave the talent trees and abilities alone.
I'm an old school gamers from the days of D&D and AD&D book versions and your letting this game become more MONTY HALLish. I liked it when Rogues had to make their own poisons and we all had to build up our weapon proficiences in order to use certain weapons per our classes.
If you want to change some abilities make it where we rogues can climb walls , walk tightropes or wires , able to SAP targets out of stealth and disguise ourselves a class ability. Also , think about giving titles for levels, as per the games of D&D and AD&D. You earned a new title per so many levels your character advanced in level. Say a rogue at level 1-10 was called a RUFFIAN or a THUG , and after that he was given a new title to show how he has advanced in his level. As for level 85 or higher a character would have a title of MASTER ASSASSIN or COMBAT MASTER or SUBLETY MASTER.
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Icdeath
Dalvengyr
Icdeath
4/14/2012
@Bàmaman: As much as i agree with the weapon and not having to have duel specs and being able to use them all at the same time i believe we need to give Blizz allot of credit because they work pretty damn hard to try to improve the game and give us more hours of play time... So what that they changed a few stuff there just making it funner and difficult. But hey who doesn't like a challenge! :|
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Tahr
Tichondrius
Tahr
4/29/2012
@Bàmaman: Do us all a favour and cease all posting of comments on balance forums as you clearly have no comprehension of the topic.
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Slydawg
Uldum
Slydawg
4/6/2012
I am not a button masher, I use hotkeys for everything, specifically numbers and modifiers. My main spell bar has of course 12 spots, so I think no class should have more than 12 "core" combat abilities. Cooldown abilities I typically put on another bar that I use a modifier for. I use a third bar for trinkets and other non-combat abilities, and that is about all the abilities I want. 3 bars worth. Non combat abilities can technically be on a bar that I just click when I want, but some non-combat abilities I use so much I want them keyed, like mounting up for instance. My 2¢
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Subar
Blackwater Raiders
Subar
3/29/2012
LOL wow noticed LOcks were mentioned See my post A warlocks curse and it will explain why i am not surprised.
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I for sure think you should be able to get all 3 specs if you have to be alot for it like in LK it was 1000g for duel spec then so be it. But having all 3 specs would be great so ppl Can choose any spec for whatever they are about todo
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Adark
Moon Guard
Adark
3/16/2012
I have a response to this that also contributes to the "Role of Role" discussion. You mentioned that "4" is a good number of rotational abilities, which immediately made me smile because all Warlock specs have about 6 or 7 abilities they're constantly reapplying/casting in a fight, and I like that! Warlocks are the least played class, partially because their rotations are more complicated than a mages - yet to some players (like myself) this is a very attractive feature of the class. However, Demo is slightly less buttons than destro and afflic - so its sometimes a good change of pace. What if, for Hybrids, you gave them 3 varying degrees of "complexity" in rotations? The easy spec, with simple and competitive dps, a middle of the road rotation, and a super complex rotation - but with some added utility and situational responses. I've never played Mages, but from what I've heard - it sounds like Arcane and Fire already have this dynamic.
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Exodis
Khaz Modan
Exodis
3/15/2012
I agree wow is becoming nothing but a lot of cookie cut classes and imo has become far to easy to lvl in. when i started playing at the start of bc i thought one of the games best aspects was that it had lots of versitility. players could be different in stats and abilities and had ampel time to learn there classes. I agree with Indulgent the 3.3/3.5 talent trees should be brought back. however, In short I believe the game has become to easy and should be brought back to its versitile self that it use to be (sry for the miss-spells)
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Indulgent
Greymane
Indulgent
3/15/2012
Here's an idea that many would agree with. Bring back the 3.3/ 3.5 talent trees and give back all the spells you removed. this way nothing is cookie cutter. instead of just being a holy paladin and copy/pasting the spec we could have a holy paladin strictly for heals and a holy paladin strictly for mass bubbles and player defense. have a single target tank and an aoe tank - thats affective- put in the use of more Specs (I.e. Triple spec instead of dual spec) it allows everyone to dip their feet while not having to constantly break bank to re spec for what ever raid you're doing and if your mt or ot or if your tank healer or raid healer. we should be able to rotate our personal abilities while playing this game without having to fly to the trainer.
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Slydawg
Uldum
Slydawg
4/6/2012
@Indulgent: If we are going to triple spec, we are going to need a better way to manage our gear. It already takes up too much space in the bank. I have to waste 2 bank slots because my druid can play 3 classes (although recent gear changes have mitigated that some). What if I needed a 4th set of gear for the 4th thing a druid can be? And then there is PVP!

We need an "Item Rack" or some such device that only uses one bag slot but can contain all the items in a gear set. This would also help people keep the old gear they like the look of so that transmogrification would really be useful.
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Slydawg
Uldum
Slydawg
4/6/2012
@Slydawg: OOOH! Or how about the ability to purchase a Squire that you can switch out your gear with?? Be able to summon and dismiss him, give him bag slots that add to your own. Make it pricey so noobs cannot use one, and make it a max level item so you can only use him if you are maxed level.
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Bluntknight
Saurfang
Bluntknight
4/10/2012
@Slydawg: They did.. you get your squire in TotLK, you can even get him a horse to ride, and he will access your bank so that you can switch out gear.
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Dirtdog
Uther
Dirtdog
3/13/2012
Having "to many" abillitys isnt a problem if you have played your main from BC and up, but I have every class ,and spec, in the game. THATS 31 DIFFRENT specs. Thats alot of buttons and I can see clearly how the classes I dont like much may be more complacated and CLUNCKY over say the ones that top the DPS charts. New players also proboly struggle with having to many abilitys once they ding. ESPESHILY now that you have made leveling SO easy! In Vinnela it took forevor to level and you coul become very comfortable with your spells once you hit 60. A revamp to a few or so classes would be in order, in my opinion.
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Bamcis
Durotan
Bamcis
3/14/2012
@Dirtdog: If you really do have 31 different characters you play you need to unplug your computer and walk away.

I also love how you capitalized the worst spelling of especially I have ever seen: "ESPESHILY"
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Dellar
Grizzly Hills
Dellar
3/14/2012
@Bamcis: LOL :)
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Dellar
Grizzly Hills
Dellar
3/14/2012
@Dirtdog: Dude... PLEASE delete and edit your post LOL. So many misspellings and hard to read sentences... I get your drift, but... Lol...
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Shockstrap
Kil'jaeden
Shockstrap
3/13/2012
several classes could use MORE abilities such as frost dk's enhance shamans ect but thats just my opinion, the game is becoming too easy
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Jòhnwayne
Laughing Skull
Jòhnwayne
3/13/2012
@Monkeytaint: Rather than making more buttons to push to make it harder how about making PvE encounters harder, and PvP more strategic. You don't necessarily have to add more buttons to make it harder, in fact i think more buttons makes it even more boring.
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Jhon
Dragonmaw
Jhon
3/13/2012
@Jòhnwayne: I agree. There are more effective options than just adding new abilities. That solves nothing, and will probably just create new issues. Or new abilities to counteract the new ability. Its sort of like a snowball effect. I pretty much think this is what Blizzard has been doing for a while now.
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Dellar
Grizzly Hills
Dellar
3/14/2012
@Jhon: I agree with both of you. It's getting useless. Might as well add a nuke ability that once every hour you can instantly kill an enemy. You can win almost any PvP bg/aren with strategies and a few buttons, for PvE though, let bosses and such hit harder, we have enough buttons already, if not, then upgrade those buttons we currently have.
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Cazmilla
Khaz'goroth
Cazmilla
3/13/2012
Personally, I love having a lot of abilities available although I've not ever seen anyone else's UI that looks too much like mine
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Foolicooli
Baelgun
Foolicooli
3/31/2012
@Cazmilla: I was wondering could i have a screenshot of your UI just to see cuz im interested.
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Nietzschë
Mug'thol
Nietzschë
3/10/2012
Add another vote for pruning. As a hunter I am sometimes astounded by the number of abilities I have at my disposal. I use a 20 hotkey system and still have a difficult time finding room for all the abilities that I'd like to have quick access to. I usually PVE and for the most part I enjoy the rotation and even enjoy having to mess around with my hotkeys because certain fights require the use of oft ignored spells. But when I attempt to PVP I am absolutely overwhelmed, all of a sudden I need to be able to quickly use a dozen more spells (concussive shot, scatter shot, silencing shot, widow venom,flare, various melee and defense abilities, the list goes on). I honestly can't handle it. Maybe if I had a lot more experience in PVP I'd learn play styles that required fewer abilities but as it is now whenever I PVP I find myself nostalgic for low level BGs.
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Velzio
Kil'jaeden
Velzio
8/21/2012
@Nietzschë: Real Talk !
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Nickzorz
Dragonmaw
Nickzorz
3/8/2012
I am completely for pruning, and I feel similar to Jhon in that I feel limited in the classes I can play because of the sheer number of abilities some classes have to master, especially as a PvP oriented player. I loved Classic and TBC, and having not played for awhile, coming back to some of these classes is ridiculous. I don't think anyone should be driven away from a class they can potentially enjoy because they are intimidated by the amount of abilities that class has to master.
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Jhon
Dragonmaw
Jhon
3/7/2012
I’ve had hand injuries in the past so it can be very difficult for me to press a ton of different buttons all the time so this is something I think about a lot. I’ve been playing this game for 6 years. In that time I’ve played all the classes quite a bit. I’ve had a lot of time to learn the ins and outs of all the classes. I’ve learned that I do not enjoy playing classes with a huge amount of abilities (which seems like most of them at this point). So, I cringe when I see that my class is getting a new ability that I’m going to have to try and find a way to comfortably and effectively use.

I’ve learned that, for example, Druids and Hunters (being what seems like the most extreme cases) are not for me. I just can’t enjoy playing them. So, I don’t. I play a Retribution Paladin. I think it’s a good thing that I have that option. And I think it’s a good thing that someone who enjoys having an ability for almost any situation imaginable can play a Druid or Mage.

Retribution Paladins still have a lot of abilities, but not as many as most. It took me a long time to figure out that I liked Paladin over Druid, or Warlock, or Death Knight, etc. I had to play all the classes a lot. As a new player, it may be hard to figure out that you aren’t enjoying a class simply because it has too many abilities. It might take a lot of time to play all the different classes to see what you like and don’t like, especially now that there is going to be an additional class to think about (Monk). Some people may not have that time, like I did, to learn the ins and outs of all the classes. This may be a moot point to some, but as Blizzard seems to be trying to attract new players to the game, I think it is definitely something to think about.

I think that some classes should have a lot of abilities and others should not. That is why all the class homogenization in the past few years has been a little bit scary to me (especially with healing). I don’t want my Paladin to have the same amount of abilities or/and a bunch of abilities that do similar things as a Druid’s. There needs to be clear and definitive differences, which is probably hard to achieve (and gets into the whole “Role of Roles” topic).

I’m very happy, though, to see that the game developers are talking about this. I’m glad that it is being acknowledged that there might be too many abilities on people’s action bars. I think this topic is much more important than people may realize. I’ve known people that have quit this game because they felt it to be insurmountable to try learning and mastering all the abilities of one class, let alone multiple classes. This topic is also very important to people that may not have the physical dexterity required to be pressing a multitude of different buttons, like myself. I really don’t want it to get the point where I can no longer play this game because of a physical disability, because I love this game.

So, thanks Blizzard. Keep up the good work! :)
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Kiatanya
Emerald Dream
Kiatanya
3/6/2012
I say do some major pruning, everyone has to many abilities and it can be annoying balancing them all out.
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Dirtdog
Uther
Dirtdog
3/13/2012
@Kiatanya: roll arcane mage =) and make a macro for all your cooldowns so your pressing 2 buttons.
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Kenjarek
Moonrunner
Kenjarek
3/4/2012
PLEASE WHT EVER U DO DONT TAKE AWAY DIVINE STAR FROM THE PRIEST TALENT OPTIONS IM REALLY EXCITED ABOUT THAT AND I WOULD HATE TO SEE IT GO AWAY... as healing priest helping out with some extra dps as well as healing at the same time is great thats why i love disciple so much, but holy has its aoe perks so i dual, keep up the great work and dont pay attention to the whiners u'll never b able to please everyone but they can complain all they want but they love the game as much as we all do so no ones going ne where LONG LIVE BLIZZARD :-D
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Vanisher
Eonar
Vanisher
3/4/2012
i just cant wait till the game comes out it looks like it is going to be so much fun woot woot and the lvling system to 90 lvls i love it new dungeons and new pve stuff and pet battle awsome stuff blizz whats next lol
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Kenjarek
Moonrunner
Kenjarek
3/4/2012
@Vanisher: omg i no pet battles are gonna b great my lil xt, my lil rag, and my sen'jin fetish lol are gonna kick *** and take names preferably ally names lol
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Foolicooli
Baelgun
Foolicooli
3/31/2012
@Kenjarek: Dude il own you with my Singing Sunflower it looks harmless now, but in MoP it will be a BOSS. :)
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Angelwatched
Gnomeregan
Angelwatched
3/4/2012
It would be cool to see more action bar configurations available and even the addition of more bars if desired. I am still struggling with macros and key bindings. About the time I think I understand there is a situation that I wish I understood how to make it better. I know there are sites but to some this is intuitive and some of us don't get it as easily. Not whining just would like to have better tools that make the process more straight forward. When I am reading the forums it seems like "Greek to me"--still don't get what is meant by the stuff in the parenthesis. so far many assume that some things are understood. I'm still looking for what is assumed to be understood. This is kind of iindicative of the differences in the attitudes about any of the skills in the game which is why I mention it. It would be nice if the elites were better mentors--a little kinder too. But there is always the ninja tank who starts battles without his team and checking the health of himself and his team and that they are all there and blames everyone for lousy heals and dps. I thought Cata was to take things back to being a team and working out strategies. If it's the first time that you are in a dungeon then chances are you will get get kicked because of your substandard performance. You see things don't necessarily work the way those that live in the ivory towers envision and so we have 94 pages of comments.
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Angelwatched
Gnomeregan
Angelwatched
3/4/2012
@Angelwatched: correction--21 pages so far on this string