Dev Watercooler - The Great Item Squish (or Not) of Pandaria

The lead designers were originally going to talk about this topic at BlizzCon, but it didn’t really match the content of the rest of our “Intro to Pandaria” presentation, and seeing as how we finished our 90-minute slot with 93 seconds remaining, there wouldn’t have been room for it anyway. But several of us did bring up the issue with players and media we talked to, and it even ended up in at least one FAQ, so we figured we’d go ahead and get the information out there. Note that unlike much of what we presented for the upcoming Mists of Pandaria expansion, this is not an announcement. It’s more of a problem we’d like to address, and a couple of ways we potentially might do so. Feedback is certainly appreciated.

Big Number Syndrome
Hey, our stats are growing exponentially. If you look at everything from the Strength on a weapon to the damage being done by a Fireball crit or the amount of health the Morchok boss has, they look downright absurd compared to the numbers for level 60 characters in the original shipping version of World of Warcraft. It’s not exactly a surprise that we were going to end up here, and we knew where we were going every step of the way, yet regardless, here we are.


Fig. 1. Item level vs. character level. Brown = vanilla. Green = BC. Blue = LK. Red = Cat.

The numbers grew so much primarily because we wanted rewards to be compelling. Upgrading from a chestpiece that has 50 Strength into one that has 51 Strength is undeniably a DPS increase for the appropriate user, but it’s not a very exciting reward. Such negligible increases can drive players to do some weird things, such as skipping over tiers of gear or entire levels of content. This is particularly relevant when we’re talking about a new expansion. We don’t want level-85 players to have a reasonable shot at level-90 dungeons and raids (or PvP opponents) just because that content is balanced for gear that isn’t much better than what the level-85 players have.

So we arrived at this point in a logical fashion, and we don’t really think we should have handled things any differently. However, it’s still a weird place to be, and it’s about to get weirder. These aren’t real items, in that we don’t know for sure what the item levels will be in patch 5.3 and patch 6.3 (if only we planned that far ahead!) but they are reasonable guesses, and you can see just how ridiculous the items look.


Fig. 2. A theoretical item from patch 5.3.

 


Fig. 3. A theoretical item from patch 6.3.


So what do we do about it? There are two general categories of solutions. The first is to make the numbers appear more manageable and the second is to actually change the numbers.

Mega Damage
The first solution could include changes like adding commas and the like to large numbers. We could also compress all of those 1000s to Ks and all of those 1,000,000s to Ms, much like we do with boss health today. Internally, we have been calling this the “Mega Damage solution” because instead of your Fireball hitting for 6,000,000 damage, it would hit for 6 MEGA DAMAGE (queue the Arcanite Ripper guitar solo).
 


Fig. 4. Mega Damage. Name/screenshot not to be taken seriously.

If we can make numbers such as floating combat text and boss health and item stats a little easier to read at a glance, then maybe we can endure numbers increasing exponentially for many digits to come. Now there are some very real computational limitations. PCs just can’t quickly perform math on very large numbers, so we’d have to solve all of those problems as well. Even today, tanks can hit the ten digit threat cap on some encounters.

Item Level Squish
The second solution actually involves compressing item levels, which is why we call it the “item level squish solution.” If we can lower stats on items, then we can lower every other number in the game as well, such as how much damage a Fireball does or how much health a gronn has. If you look at the item level curves, you can see that most of the growth occurs at the maximum character levels for the various expansions. This is because we keep rewarding more and more powerful gear to make the new raid tier and PvP season in an expansion reward significantly better gear than the previous one. However, those huge item level jumps don’t accomplish a lot once the character level has increased again. Very few players notice or care how much of an upgrade the Black Temple loot is over the Serpentshrine Cavern loot when their characters are level 80.

With that in mind, we could go back and compress the big item level increases that occur at level 60, 70, 80 and 85. The Mists of Pandaria gear would still grow exponentially from patch to patch, but the baselines would be a lot lower. Health could go from 150,000 back down to something like 20,000. The big risk of this approach is that players will log into the new expansion and feel nerfed… even if all the other numbers are compressed as well.

In other words, your Fireball will still do the same percentage damage to a player or a creature that it does today, but the number would be smaller. Logically, this seems like it would work, and it does. But it feels weird. When we tried this internally, everyone agreed that it just felt off throwing a spell for hundreds of damage when you are used to it doing thousands of damage.

I came up with an analogy -- even though I know logically that people drive on the left side of the street in the UK (we drive on the right side of the street in the US) and wouldn’t be surprised to see it, it would still feel really disorienting if I was driving in the UK and had to make a right-hand turn.


Fig. 5. Item level vs. character level before and after ‘squish’. Brown = vanilla. Green = BC. Blue = LK. Red = Cat

So Now What?
As I type this today, we haven’t decided on which if either solution we want to try. Maybe we’ll come up with yet another solution. Maybe it’s the kind of thing we can put off for another expansion so that players don’t have to adjust to the new talent system and a drastic item level compression at the same time. Or maybe it’s better just to pull the Band-Aid off fast and fix everything at once. Time will tell. I did, however, want to outline the problem lest any of you believe we don’t think there is a problem. There is. We’re just not sure of the best solution yet. If your answer is that stat budgets don’t have to grow so much in order for players to still want the gear, our experience says otherwise, and thus these proposed solutions exist. Your thoughts on the matter are valuable.

Greg “Ghostcrawler” Street is the lead systems designer for World of Warcraft. The last time he used “Fig. 5” in an article, it related fish predation to estuarine hydrocarbon contamination.

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Though to be fair i think the number crunch would be a good idea. It seems more like now once you hit the highest tier you also hit god level for anything in old content. imagine a world where you're still mortal! where you cant solo old raids! where we still run them for more than transmog gear! or if they had heroic levels for the old content....hmmm
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Raidiance
Azshara
Raidiance
19 hours ago
One other "problem" i see with this is if the item level numbers will be much closer together that there will be a greater chance of feeling like gear will be less important since it may be possible for a skilled yet less geared player to kill a geared but less skilled player in pvp or the like. people get crazy with any gaps they can exploit in new changes and i foresee a lot of already unhappy people getting ganked :D
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Honestly, if you guys decide to go with squish, there will be a transition period where people are generally unsatisfied with the dmg they're doing. After people have adjusted to the new system though, it'll be alright.
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I think when people refer to stats they use the wrong terminology. Smaller does not mean stupid, it should mean more significant! Having more significant numbers is what the game has been missing. Replacing an epic item that took me 2 weeks of raiding in vanilla with the first green quest reward seemed absurd to me. It was like i had been carrying an "easy" button in my pocket but nor knew it was there.
I agree with the total number squish. Streamlining everything in the game to were it is a steady increase in power would be the best(and yes most complex) way to go. Its gonna take everyone on the staff to sit and make like they knew this day would come from the very jump and just do it. As a DPS class my numbers don't matter when i'm killing the boss, just as long at it dies fast and my cool downs let me do that. As a healer, i don't care if the heal just ticked for 100k just that the tank doesn't eat it. Significance is key! Best of luck on the revamps and MoP!!!
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Interesting topic Ghost, as always, but I am a little more than curious about fish predation to estuarine hydrocarbon contamination now.
P.S. The people that would actually "care" about 'big numbers' being > than small numbers brought on by an item squish are the small-minded cry babies no one cares about anyway. Truly loyal fans will see the changes, adapt, and be alright with it because it happened to everyone << that's the important part. Squishy squish.
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Kirrara
Undermine
Kirrara
5/14/2012
I would go with the lvl squish. The numbers are really ridiculous I went from 20k around about hp to 136k in five lvls. That is just crazy, and as a rogue I was crit'ing at the end of wrath for what I am now. Around 30k from 80 to 81 my damage and my dps went down. Now sometimes my crits are larger but that is only raid buffs. But different tiers should have a difference in stat but the deciding factor in most cases is what the set bonus's are like in Vanilla. You picked a tier based on how much the set bonus helped you not the stats
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Kirrara
Undermine
Kirrara
5/14/2012
@Kirrara: are, like sry
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Cybrok
Anvilmar
Cybrok
5/14/2012
Im with you guys. I simple ilvl squish is need, drop vanilla to 70s, BC to 110, wotlk to 160 and cata to 220, and maybe MoP at 260.
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Bungee
Stormscale
Bungee
5/14/2012
I definitely agree with the item squish. You can make it so you keep gear longer if you are leveling a character because of the smaller stat changes, but the real changes come with small increases at the max level that have a big effect on your character.

I'm also fine with ratings the way they are except maybe if there was a little more clarity and uniformity. For clarity, maybe you can add the option to see how much rating is 1% for the stat in the stats list or have the game show you on the gear how much percent it would be based on your current character level. And uniformity, it would be nice to have 12 hit rating be the same percentage as 12 crit rating or resilience so that it's easy to see the trade-off.
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Tufani
Kalecgos
Tufani
5/14/2012
Squishaclysm go! I played FFXI for a few years when it came out, and at level 75 I had just over 2k HP. That was a huge difference from the 50 I had at level 1, and it was enough. Stat boosts feel more significant when you go from gear with +4 agi to +5 than from +400 to +500.
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Deadfast
Drak'thul
Deadfast
5/12/2012
I agree with the idea of a number squish, but you don't want to over-squish it either. How much, then, is the right amount? That seems like a simple question.

Imagine for a moment you knew all along WOW would be a run-away success with half a dozen expansions. How would you have run the numbers in that case? Then do that.
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Sodalite
Kirin Tor
Sodalite
5/11/2012
I agree with the Squish solution. Clear explanations about what's happened and why and the bulk of people should be able to accept it.
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Bjernisfeld
Sentinels
Bjernisfeld
5/11/2012
I've been wondering for a while now when and how this issue was going to be addressed. I'm glad to see you guys talking about it, and in general I'd just like to say that I'm in favor of a number squish. Not only does a squish make it more manageable for the number computation, but it also adds a greater sense of accomplishment going from a piece of gear with 50 armor to a piece of armor with 52 armor, or going from +2 Agility to +3 or even +4. It reminds me of my days playing table-top D&D, and how excited I was at getting to trade in my +2 short sword for a +3 one. Smaller numbers also means it's easier for a player to look at their stats, and a piece of equipment and figure out in their head some of the adjustments to percentages that a stat increase might bring. I know that if I could look at an item and know if the +2 bonus to Intelligence is going to raise my spell critical by .4% then that could be a major factor in my decision to equip or not. Also, I would like to suggest that if you guys do go with a number squish solution, convert all your "Ratings" (mastery, expertise, dodge, etc.) into just base percentages. They don't have to be huge... +.1%, +.05%, maybe even +1% or +2% for some of the really amazing items. It makes the game more manageable for players when assessing their equipment and might even streamline some of that computational speed stuff.
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Ronîn
Destromath
Ronîn
5/10/2012
SQUISH EVERYONE!!!!! I've been asking about this for nearly a year now and am estatic to see it being considered. It would make this game feel a whole lot better, and more linear with the original version. At first, you will probably lose some of the new (less desirable) players, but you later gain an influx of gamers who actually are capable, and dont need lfr to give them all their loot. next, make pvp imbalanced again. Sounds weird, right? but it was alot more fun when priests couldn't do anything but heal, and warriors were double sided blades; rogues were imba, and it took atleast 2 other classes to take them down. Lastly: Graphics. Listen, i understand that these graphics are from the early 2000's when blizzard was still an average sized developer, but now, you are Blizz, The billion dollar world wide videogame empire. Spend something like a million on graphics, and revamp this game. You did good with the water, but Org looks like crap, the metal plates for roads look like a project i did back in highschool for computer generated graphics. I've seen people make elves and goblins with phenominal textures and movements. I know y'all can do this good. So please, Blizz, make me want to keep playing this game!
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Norgalla
Uldum
Norgalla
5/10/2012
Computers are getting better at a rate that out paces dps, don't think that is a real issue. I d agree that at some point they just look stupid. We don't need a boss with a billion health and DPS at 100k. I think next expansion, rather than increase level cap to 95, decrease it to 50. the scaling would be simple enough. All the 90's would go to 45 and then work up 5 levels that are essentially 10 and all the other numbers get cut up accordingly. The game play wouldn't Change. In fact you would get bigger increase in power since you would be increasing 10 levels worth under the "old" system. Just have small numbers again.
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Marallenne
Gorefiend
Marallenne
5/10/2012
I agree that the squish would feel like a giant nerf, and a lot of people might find the game post-squish much less exciting for it. And speaking from experiencing leveling alts... it can be a lot of fun to have a max-level friend or two run you through an old-expansion raid and run around with a level 60 or 70 epic piece instead of the normal green or blue from an average leveling dungeon.

As far as the computing issue with large numbers go - well that's simply not my field of expertise, so I can't offer any input on that, sorry.
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Ålanna
Blackrock
Ålanna
5/10/2012
To me the giant gear inflation feels much weirder than any item squish would. Do the squish already. I feel dmg would actually feel more significant. Right now if i crit for 5.8 k that doesn't really register as much more than if I crit for 5.2 k even tho thats a 600dmg difference. Thats a lot, but in a raiding environment, it just feels like i need to make the numbers go faster, idc how big they are. If the difference was between 100 and 150 dmg I would definately pay more attention and be excited to actually see in numbers the hard work I put into my gear, speccing, gemming, reforging, etc.
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Miang
Grizzly Hills
Miang
5/10/2012
Go back to making 25 man raids superior, and, at the same time, go back to certain specs/classes bringing unique buffs to the raid, so people can feel unique again. Also, please go back to the ideology of vanilla in terms of extensive customization potential, rather than 'obvious choices' for a raider. Additionally, for love of Elune, MORE LORE BOSSES. BC was great; Kael'Thas (just him), Illidan (just him), Kil'Jaeden + almost all of the Sunwell, Archimonde, Karazhan, and even the new Kazzak! (Vashj I guess, and Leotheras was also cool). You all have forgot that the important part about making the game and the raids fun is making people want to play it and run them! You want more interesting raids like Karazhan and AQ20, and to come out more often; you have to funding. People still ran ZG and ZA before they were revamped, so the remake was never really necessary. I know from experience that it is much easier to update pre-existing code than start anything new, but most players, BOTH hardcore raiders and casual, enjoy running things like Karazhan, even at level 85, because it's just interesting. The same is true for the AQ or CoT dungeon/raids. They are unique, which is what this game is missing. We had MC, and no longer need a big empty space full of RECYCLED boss models (every boss model should be unique, even if only a bit) leading up to the one cool boss in the entire raid. Take notes from AQ20, Karazhan, AQ40, The Sunwell, and The Eye of Eternity.

On a more relevant note, you could simply make gear that starts at a certain level, and further raiding would provide hard stat increases to the gear, or perhaps weaves/plating that change the appearances.
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Ålanna
Blackrock
Ålanna
5/10/2012
@Miang: Having 25 man content be superior is just discriminant against small guilds that can't organise a big raid. other than that good points, but having more people shouldn't increase the value of the rewards. In fact i think it's easier for a 25 man raid to down a boss because there is a lot more leeway. If one guy in your 25 man messes up it probably won't be a wipe. if one guy in your 10 man messes up, it probably is.
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Kutal
Bronzebeard
Kutal
5/16/2012
@Miang: You obviously didn't raid in Vanilla as there wasn't "Extensive Customization potential". Pretty much one set of gear you went after and there were maybe two choices for specs. I mean as far as choices go the game is actually gotten a lot better...
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Invaderrzim
Auchindoun
Invaderrzim
5/9/2012
Heres, a great idea... just take all the gear out of the intire game and everyone gets gear that levels with them so no one has to do anything also this same gear gives lets say... 1billion% more xp all you have to do is kill hogger once and poof lvl90 take all the work out of anything so we can all get like that guy in the SP episode with the sword of a thousand truths...
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Invaderrzim
Auchindoun
Invaderrzim
5/9/2012
as long as the bosses in say MC and stuff get squished with us really dont care either but it either way is still gunna suck but if a 90-95 cant solo a lvl 60, 70 or even the 80 content the way that my 85s can that would be some BS... im on a small pop pvp server so getting groups together for anything other then end game is like trying to put lipstick on a wild pig it just doesnt happen without some kind of sedditive... but if you are goin to make stuff harder to run/get bring back some of the titles/rewards from doing them
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Syllune
Moonrunner
Syllune
5/9/2012
I'm with the majority here. Been playing since BC launched and I would love to see a massive squish... for that fact, I could see a huge level reduction too. You can level so fast the first 20 to 40 don't really matter and the stories, although really fun, don't tend to engage me untill the upper level of vanilla... so cutting the level count in half wouldn't hurt either.
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Shædessa
Bladefist
Shædessa
5/9/2012
@Syllune: I could see a character level squish thrown in with an item level squish. I "could" do 1-20 in a single day given no outside obligations or responsibilities. "Some" people can level to 85 in less than 2 weeks. The upcurve in how long it takes to level as you get higher is about as insane as the projected stats on the items above. It spikes dramatically... when it should be a smooth curve, while it should take longer to get to level 30 than it did to get to 29, it shouldn't take THAT much longer... Need to find a sweet spot in there somewhere that isn't exponential, but is still multiplicative. If you dropped Vanilla content to 50 levels, BC and LK to 5 each, then we'd be back at lvl 70 for a max and you could recalc all the stats and stuff accordingly along with the gear squish. (obviously there would be some MASSIVE coding required here... but it could be done and would result in a further reaching effect than just a gear squish.
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Avagar
Doomhammer
Avagar
5/9/2012
Squish it! Squish it real good!
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Shædessa
Bladefist
Shædessa
5/9/2012
What if along with Squish, epic and legendary items became what they were meant to feel like all along? I think we put way too much emphasis on how quickly people get epics. Perhaps, once the Squish happened, earning those epics could be made to mean more and seem like more of a reward. Uncommon items should last you roughly from quest chain to quest chain, so a couple of levels. Blues should last a bit longer... probably 3-5 levels worth of content or the equivalent. Epics should only come from raid content, not from dungeons at all. Dungeon blues should be strong enough to do entry level raid content and epics from one raid tier should be strong enough for the beginning of the next raid tier. Legendary items should span quite a bit more content than epics... probably at least should be strong enough to last through the current tier and begin the one after that. I realize this creates a bottleneck forcing players to go through each tier of raiding content to experience the next... but from what I've seen this wouldn't be all bad. You did want people to experience the stuff you made, right? This would still allow players to skip raid content and move on to questing when another xpack came out, if they chose to do so. And perhaps you could add a way for people to upgrade gear items to an extent. Say I've been away a few months and a new raid tier came out, I come back and do some dungeons and previous raid content to earn points that allow me to make what gear I own that isn't up to snuff for the new tier, strong enough to begin on par with entry level gear for that raid tier. Obviously there would have to be a minimum ilvl to be allowed to level it up and a maximum it could be leveled to. This would allow players to bypass older raid content if they chose to do so. Another way to handle that would be to add dungons for each tier of raiding that could be completed with gear from the previous dungeons, which would allow players to bypass any raid tier other than the current highest tier, kind of like you did with the 3 extra dungeons near the end of Lich King and Cata. The fact is, I should not be replacing epics with uncommons for at least 5 levels worth of content, nor with rares for at least 3 levels worth of content. Legendary items should last at least 8 levels worth of content or about 1.5 raid tiers.
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Stâlkêr
Doomhammer
Stâlkêr
5/9/2012
Item Squish!!!!
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Stôrmcrow
Doomhammer
Stôrmcrow
5/9/2012
I vote for a super squish. Everything ghostcrawler said should lead you to the conclusion the an item squish should be more than just something to think about. The feeling that a squish would seem like a nerf, would only be shared by the simple minded and immature.
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Rawaka
Crushridge
Rawaka
5/8/2012
I disagree with the whole idea that they feel was a good decision of new xpack gear being better than almost anything you could possibly get in the previous xpack. There's no reason a freshly achieved lvl 70 shouldn't be able to have a shot at a 72. Just because the 72 is on the next expansion their gear is equal to if that lvl 70 went to "end game" for BC but he didn't have to put in any effort to achieve it? weak. I think your baseline of vanilla (before the lvl 60 spike) should be a straight line through each expansion with a spike at each max lvl. So if you went to end game in vanilla, your gear is close to non-end game gear at 65 or 70, but an average casual player at 81 should not wipe the floor with your heroic tank just because they've done a couple dozen simple quests in cata. So getting into end-game content will reward you but people that skip that content keep earning at teh same rate. That would be fairest and my preference.

I recently got cata and sh%* a brick when the green quest rewards were replacing all my purple heroics gear, it shouldn't be so!
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Smokezound
Eitrigg
Smokezound
5/8/2012
Item squish all the way cause when im going from wotlk to cata I don't even bother getting wotlk blues anymore cata just demolishes those stats and ilvl. Hope'd we go down in stat in MoP but when i see videos of warlocks doing 300k crits i know we got buffed hugely
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Pander
Silver Hand
Pander
5/8/2012
I obviously haven't read through the entire 4k plus responses to this topic, but I have read several hundred of them and the squish seems to be getting the highest vote, but perhaps squishing alone isn't good enough. I am thinking creating a whole new system with smaller numbers might work better and you could do it in a way that actually makes players feel REWARDED with the lower stats. Several games have used something like ascention to do this same thing. You become a new higher version of your class, or gain a new type of class, and your stats seem to start all over at level 1 for your new class but your still just as strong as you were. So if your previous strength was 2000 its now 2 + Ascention. An ascended character doing old content would do damage + a percentage that would reflect the mob being unascended.
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Gerulas
Tanaris
Gerulas
5/7/2012
Bottom line, put it simple like this: one gold dollar for paper...I'll keep the gold dollar. Also added value from skills, or combination, or raid structure, or anything that has something in common with true values not just numbers...consider honoring the legacy players or achievements that are unique due to 7 years players present in any guild or raid...give back to people the feeling of value within their chars to reflect their constant efforts, time and money spent year after year to keep this game going on...remember your veterans and they will reward you.
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Gerulas
Tanaris
Gerulas
5/7/2012
Squishing the figures in any manner ,won't affect too much the in game dmg/healing formulas so it may be an easier implementation. Changing the way chars and dmg/healz work with smaller numbers but also with different meaning, will ask for a lot of formula painful changes and tests; both are viable. For example, each level to add 1 or 10 to each stat, same for gear. so at level 100 to 100 strenght max on any gear item , therefore for 15 slots to get around 1500 value in any desired stats beyond the 100 default for base level 100 player. Is still doable and gems will go from 0.1 to 10 if so needed, from green to epic ones. Anything is possible, just use symbols for different values or smaller numbers.
Even today from ancient times, a gold bar meant always a serious value that doesn't need huge numbers written on it to accomplish that feeling.
Value is in the eyes of the player.
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Gerulas
Tanaris
Gerulas
5/7/2012
sorry for grammar or typing errors, for some reason I can't edit the post to correct them; feel free to hit me hard as usual for that, but keep the message beyond akward words
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Gerulas
Tanaris
Gerulas
5/7/2012
Hello guys:) Me , the qq-er again but I'll try t ohelp even if current line of development is wrong, as someone said, like inflation needs a change but also a root cause analysis...well but as I know by now, nothing will really change for good.
So, obviously people like big numbers so they will grind for weeks to get those big numbers shown off; and that sells well unti la point where, as someone said, they will buy a chicken with 1 billion. Then, they will start to consider quality too, or will look for something else more valuable beyond obvious numbers. It has to be done, either way and, like all countries that went through such inflation changes(both painful and shocking to the eye and mind) once they reached small numbers they started to care about the value packed in small boxes, they started to care about each dime. Even more, valuable metals were used to show this small numbers huge value.
So, you can reduce the figures but yo ucan give them a different meaningfull color on the screen; people will now do (as gear has it already) blue, epic or legendary damage, each with its own units, from 1 t o1000 let's say. We are alread yused with white, yellow and green, so all other collors will do to make the further difference. For healers ,green can stay but instead of M or K, use stars of blue, violet or orange colors to symbolize same uncommon, epic and legendary healz(or add a rainbow like effect when such legendary heals occur. So people will notice the difference in between a 1000blue dmg and a 10 legendary(1Legendary for 1000epic=1000000blue).
2.On the other hand, talking about hidden value beyond figures, what happened with gear SETs combos/special traits that used to be better than simple numbers descrbing str/stam/armor etc? How about a boss suddenly brought down 25% because a special pop up or raid combo requirement was met due to both gear stats/traits and epic dmg allowed it? The reason behind big numbers was always the need to bring down zillions points of HP of such bosses, and didn't look weird when seen at a raid level. But after the raid, such players, alone in teh environment or in an yother situation outside the group, are scarry godzillas for everyone else, like elite NPCs...how about dimishing such numbers outside the raid/BG encounters once a player is out of a planned group encounter? How about making such numbers dinamic while traits on gear stay in place(10% dmg reduction or less cast time etc)Will peopel care more about playing things together? Wil lthis gear escalation stop? Will OP chars and selfish playing style stop too? Wil lbully egomaniacs dissapear whe neverything is due only to group effort not to 500kHP tanks?
Just my two cents even if , as I said in teh begining, nobody cares anymore about quality and team playing and old good values that made this game such a great game once upon a time.
Wish you all epic damage and legendary teamplayers.
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I like the idea of using fractions. For instance, at level 87 my Shield could have 87.5 Strength. Maybe even 88.2 Strength if I get really lucky. Or maybe it will have 84.2 I I haven't upgraded since leveling as an alt in Cata.
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Chetu
Korgath
Chetu
5/5/2012
I agree with the item level squish. Even though it would feel weird, like he stated. I think that players would agree with it more than the mega damage. For if you add the mega damage into the game, i feel like players will become more exclusive with who they allow into a raid, more specifically a pug raid. Which will inevitably segregate players in the game.
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Malcovitch
Moonrunner
Malcovitch
5/3/2012
I'd be in favor of the semi-squish. Still make jumping to the next xpack of content significant, but squish the outdated raid gear levels down to roughly equal and round everything else down. At the end of the squishing, 10k DPS should be impressive.
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Fransua
Destromath
Fransua
5/3/2012
I'm deffinitely in agreement of the item squish. It's kinda funny you guys mentioning this now. Just the other day I was reminiscing of my times in MC when it was amazing for a tank to have 10,000 health (without wearing any resistance gear of course) and now one of my tanks has over 300k when he pops a few cooldowns. What the heck happened?

While on a sideline of the topic, My rogue is beginning to feel like there is a bit too much survivability going around in the arena. Not just for my enemies, but for myself as well. One game shouldn't last the half hour that I'm pretty sure we've gone before and more than one time.

I look forward to what decision the dev team makes. It will be a difficult adjustment but I think it will also be really nice for long time players, especially once they get used to making right hand turns in the UK. ^_~
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Sonicgott
Feathermoon
Sonicgott
5/3/2012
If all of the item levels are squished, it would feel like a nerf to everyone, but since this is just a game of numbers, and if lv1 players are reduced to hitting for damage using decimal points (0.1, 0.2 on an enemy with only 1-2HP), then so be it. Back in the old days, a crit for 1,000 damage was a BIG deal, and now it's like nothing more than a particular DoT tick. As I take a look at the competition, like City of Heroes, which is slightly older than WoW, still today, seeing numbers in the 200s-300s is commonplace on there, but in relation to enemy and boss health, those numbers are astronomical. In either case, whether we want to see large, gargantuan numbers, or reduce the numbers in the entire system (which I would imagine is a huge undertaking), either would work for me. In the interest of playability for as many computer types and configurations as possible, for the people with $500 PCs or $5,000 PCs, the game should be enjoyable by everyone. I support it either way. Personally, for me, I'm leaning toward the item squish, so that the little numbers can seem big again, even if it will take time for players to adjust.