Dev Watercooler – Mists of Pandaria Stat Changes

Dev Watercooler – Mists of Pandaria Stat Changes

Our recent talent calculator changes led to some players asking questions about how character and item stats were changing, because some spell and talent tooltips suggest that changes are coming. We compiled this list to attempt to explain more of what’s coming in Mists of Pandaria. First of all, please note that we actually aren’t making many stat changes compared to the ones we made in Cataclysm (“armor penetration -- gone!”). Second, the stuff below can get a little technical. If you’re not into the subtle nuance of gear itemization, then don’t worry about it -- you don’t need to be to enjoy the expansion -- but we know there are plenty of you who enjoy some nuts and bolts talk, so here we go.

Spell Resistance

  • Spell resistance is gone. There are no buffs that improve it and there shouldn’t be much, if any, spell resist gear left. We always thought the system was hard to understand and we weren’t getting much gameplay out of it. Now taking a step back, we can imagine how to develop a game where you’d want various forms of resist gear for certain situations and opponents. Resist gear could potentially be interesting, but it isn’t currently in World of Warcraft -- the game has just been moving away from that sort of thing for years.
  • In the absence of spell resistance, there is no need for spell penetration on gear, so we’ll remove it as well.

Hit and Expertise

  • We still think having stats that can be capped is a good game design. Rather than focusing solely on stacking your best stat, you have to decide how valuable it is to hit your target before you go back to stacking your best stat. However, we are making some changes.
  • Hit and spell hit will no longer be separate stats. The hit stat negates melee miss and spell miss.
  • Expertise will negate dodge and spell miss, then parry.
  • Expertise will be listed as a percentage, just like hit, instead of having an intermediary stat.  
  • We are normalizing hit with expertise, so that 1% of each stat will require the same amount of rating.
  • We are normalizing melee and spell hit, so that spell miss is equal to melee miss plus dodge.
    • Against an equal level creature: 6% spell miss, 3% melee miss, 3% dodge, 3% parry (from the front only), 3% block (from the front only).
    • Against a +1 level creature: 9% spell miss, 4.5% melee miss, 4.5% dodge, 4.5% parry (from the front only), 4.5% Block (from the front only).
    • Against a +2 level creature: 12% spell miss, 6% melee miss, 6% dodge, 6% parry (from the front only), 6% Block (from the front only).
    • Against a +3/boss level creature: 15% spell miss, 7.5% melee miss, 7.5% dodge, 7.5% parry (from the front only), 7.5% block (from the front only).
    • Ranged attacks will be able to be dodged. Hunters will benefit from expertise and will have it on their gear, which will also allow hunters and Enhancement shaman to share gear more easily.

Block

  •  The chance to block will be handled by a separate combat roll for each attack that is not avoided. In other words, we first determine if an attack misses, or is dodged or parried. If it is not, then the attack has a chance to be blocked.
  • This gives block a consistent value, regardless of avoidance. Currently block becomes more valuable the more you have.
  • Block will also have diminishing returns, much like dodge and parry. This doesn’t mean that the value of block will go down as you get more block. It means that it won’t go up by as much when you get more block.
  • We don’t expect Protection warriors or paladins to get “block capped” other than during temporary effects, such as mastery procs on trinkets. Block tanks will be balanced around this change. Our intent is to make playing block tanks more fun, not to nerf them.
  • Also notice how Shield Block and Shield of the Righteous have changed in Mists.

Criticals

  • All spells and abilities will crit for double damage, baseline. There are a few exceptions where crits can get larger, but the default is x 2.0 for everyone.
  • This means that Enhancement shaman spells and rogue poisons will crit for double damage. Rogue poisons will also use the melee hit chance.

Resilience

  •  We are renaming this stat to “Defense (PvP)” or possibly “PvP Defense.” All players will have 30% base Defense, the same way all characters have some base Stamina.
  • PvP gear will have Defense on it, as well as a new stat, “Power (PvP).” Power increases the damage you do to other players as well as the healing you do to other players in PvP situations.
  •  If you have a lot of Power, you’ll do more damage to other players, but they likely have Defense as well. If you fight players in lots of PvE gear, they’ll take more damage. Likewise, a player in PvE gear won’t have enough Power to effectively penetrate your Defense.
  • The names PvP Power and PvP Defense may not be final, but we’re leaning towards going with stat names that are obviously PvP-related, rather than “fluffier” names that might not be as easy to grasp. We want it to be clear to players that neither Power nor Defense have any relevance when fighting creatures, such as in dungeons or raids.
  • PvP gear will be lower in item level than PvE gear of an equivalent tier, however the Power and Defense stats will make sure that PvP gear is more powerful in PvP (both offensively and defensively) than PvE gear. In our budgeting system, the PvP stats will be free rather than causing other stats, such as Strength or haste, to be smaller as a result of including Power or Defense.
  • The goal of this change is to make it easier for a PvP player to participate in PvE, or for a PvE player to get started in PvP. Currently, we feel it is too large a barrier to go from one to the other, and the result has been that we see more and more players choosing to focus exclusively on only PvP or PvE. In earlier expansions, it was more feasible to use PvE gear in Arenas or Battlegrounds until you acquired the more useful PvP gear. The same was true of being able to use your PvP gear in a dungeon or raid until you acquired something better. In Cataclysm, stepping into PvP with no PvP gear would result in a player being so ineffective that it was difficult to even make progress towards acquiring PvP gear.
  • For the higher-end of PvP or PvE (say Gladiators or heroic raiders), we believe those players will still gravitate towards the dedicated PvP or PvE gear. It is the players who are working towards those two end games that will benefit more from some cross over.

That’s a lot of information, and it probably sounds more set-in-stone than it really is. We’ll continue to iterate as players poke holes in our ideas, tell us what is working out and what isn’t, and finally get to experience it first hand in beta.

Greg “Ghostcrawler” Street is the lead systems designer for World of Warcraft. He didn’t name Mogu’dar, Blade of a Thousand Slaves, but he wishes he had.

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Darrkeknight
Hellscream
Darrkeknight
10/15/2012
Greg I understand what doing!.. Would't it be better to induce the new changes later in the game instead now. . YOu mighu upset returning player's
who left because changes or lose some new ones if you rush any changes now. I am finally comfortable with the dk and love it. When you take something from us that make lose time I feel you should replace armor with
some fits my class or toon. I work hard for my gear! When you steal that time from me It make feel like play wow if going change my gear after started expansion. I should be rewarded for losing alot playtime because changes things on me. (Where work there used about ten wow players now it just me! ) All changes should released and finished before release a expansion ! That way you stop steal our hard earn gear from us make time played to the wind! I am not angry I feel you keep making throw away hard gear for improvement then wondering people leave wow! I know! My friends tell me why! So, If going to changes things on us then meet half
way! That mean to me this give weapon, chest pieces, and pants so when I have throw away my gear for new stats I have sample when I need those pieces. That way player wont feel like here come blizzard with update! I wasted my time getting gear so I have to re-earn better gear! Give way to try on new sets to see how they work in which will prevent us from gearing the wrong way! Then go insteances and insulted for wrong stats. Having some avator shop where try out the gear or rent for few days might help
or sell me on your changes! Like said every time you make my outdated I
feel robbed. I love your expansion MOP it exceeds my dreams but if make get rid my gear that I work so hard get you piss me off! I feel we should slot on our gear so feel like we are customizing or better! That you all blizzard for new expansion the art work and game coding it excellent! cya around in game. Not having armor master avator to help you change your
gear does leads to frustration for all players and returning ones. It is human nature not understand changes and to complain! Give a toon for armor class that shows how it make your class better. Like armor avator you go to his or her shop try on armor for free and let you play with it for thirty days! YOu would not buy any car without taking it for test drive. Giving away a samples will sell me on changes knowing I am throwing away game time and part life earn new gear. It does take time! Please remember the people who play wow deserve something better than having throw gear that piss us off everytime even with best intentions! Thank you! Consider this
us play from severl week earn only having dictate here new stuff you have to have this! Wouldn't you be upset! I work very hard for my gear! cya!
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Asmilwelme
Drakkari
Asmilwelme
9/24/2012
U all dont realize what blizzard is doing!!!!!. they are saying "•The goal of this change is to make it easier for a PvP player to participate in PvE, or for a PvE player to get started in PvP." but with this changes its going to be even harder, cus with pve gear , you wont be able to do any damage to pvpers, and they will be bypassing your resilience...!!!! , same with pve content, pvpers use to use their higher lvl pvp gear to get into good heroics, so they could get better pve gear, now YOU cant, so in reality , they are making it harder. and all u idiots complaining about the oposite... OMFG!!!!!!!!!
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Aamish
Maelstrom
Aamish
2/21/2013
@Asmilwelme: Prophetic, indeed.
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Eaglerider
Eldre'Thalas
Eaglerider
9/24/2012
The biggest barrier is teh Conquest point system. while most player can't even get on Raid, how can they earn the needed conquest point to acquire the best PvP gear, which is far superior than those gear you can get with honor point.
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An idear.. Its possible to program 'bots' I would suppose, how about creating pro 'ghost' teams/individuals that you could challenge of the top players.. Could even unlock achieves and some extreee shiney!
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Dallass
Borean Tundra
Dallass
9/4/2012
All these changes. Not easier, but it makes it faster to get things. Seriously, Blizz is helping us to have a life outside of WoW. I enjoy bodybuilding, but my conflicts of WoW grinding has gotten me more out of shape than ever. Bring it on, Blizz. Thank you.
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Holesmasher
Bleeding Hollow
Holesmasher
9/24/2012
@Dallass: ROFL that is the coolest story ive read all day, man you are gay.
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Asmilwelme
Drakkari
Asmilwelme
9/24/2012
@Holesmasher: u mad cus he actually does something more than just sitting on a pc all day like u do . lol
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Khimera
Doomhammer
Khimera
9/24/2012
@Holesmasher: I find it funny that you are derogatorily calling him gay, yet your name is "Hole smasher".
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Dethplop
Ysondre
Dethplop
9/24/2012
@Khimera: HAHAHAHA. nice eye! that guys a total doucher
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Hellene
Rexxar
Hellene
8/31/2012
Hi all -

Well, I logged in today (August 31, 2012) and got a taste of Mists of Panderia.

Some of my observations (mostly related to Hunter as that is my main toon):

(1) Dual wield seems to be gone for hunter.

(2) As a hunter. I can now only equip ranged weapon or a melee weapon but not both

(3) As a hunter, I now have access to some new talents like post haste, Wyvern Sting and Aspect of the Iron Hawk. Since I am specced out as Best Mastery, I picked these. Can someone comment on best talents for Beast Mastery Hunter?

(4) I notice that my heath jumped really high. Last week, my hit points were about 3000 with stamina points at 248. Now, hit points are 5956.

(5) I notice there is a new stat named Mastery. I suppose this applies to the spec that each individual character picks. I notice that I have 16% mastery in Beast Master.
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Redø
Nazjatar
Redø
8/31/2012
@Hellene: Create a simple macro to switch back and forth between melee and ranged wep. I understand the stat loss, but we all lost that in one form or another
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Bootleg
Velen
Bootleg
8/30/2012
I dont know why Blizz is trying to force PVP down our throats but I got burned out on it when they stoped the free for PVP in Southshore years ago and have not PVPed since.Now Blizz wants to force PVP gear on me by changeing the stats on my PVE gear causeing to lose a lot of useful PVE stats that I wanted. If I wanted PVP gear I would have wored for it. MY toons on the normal servers on git flaged flying over a PVP battle ground..And they took away an end game melee weapon from hunter that cost me 2k in health pluse other stats..Not to mention that in doing all these changes they have coast me over 5k in gold.. If I have to play the way they say to play instead of the way I want to then its time to find a new game
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Redø
Nazjatar
Redø
8/31/2012
@Bootleg: Every class has the same issue. Dont play the class card :)
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Deepcut
Steamwheedle Cartel
Deepcut
8/29/2012
Give baseline sets that can be purchased fairly cheap. These are starter sets of gear, one for pvp, the other for pve. You can only flag if you have all pvp gear equipped
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Fbudzie
Grizzly Hills
Fbudzie
8/28/2012
Above it says that if you had pve gear in pvp during cataclysm u stood no chance. I one hundred percent disagree, if u had the legendary daggers or lengendary staff(pve) u owned in rbgs and arena as long as u had a good healer. In all reality if u had good pve gear in cata u where by far more dominate then the full geared pvp ppl. I have both pve and pvp achieves. Battlemaster title, good arena rating, descent rbg rating, and all raids completed, but in no way should the two (pve and pvp) be combined. If u dont have pvp gear u should die if yr in pve not do more damage. If u dont have pve gear u should do no damage in raids if yr in pvp gear. Problem is blizzard is taking all skill out the game for both. For the hardcore pvpers or pvers the fun left the game when anyone could get gear from lfr and hot dungeons, and cata gear was easy to get trade yr valor in or get some bgs in to cap conquest. The best part of this game was when ppl who had better gear had it cause they earned it. Lfr is the nerfed version of ds and yet u nerfed ds. Legendary weapons hit gladitors for 60 k and u still want to make it more easy for these bad players. If im in pvp gear i should one shot anyone in pve. If im in a raid in pvp gear i should do no damage simple as that. Stop making the game easy for the ppl that can't play. Give them a nerfed version of bgs like lfr to pvers.
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Senate
Grizzly Hills
Senate
8/28/2012
@Fbudzie: You write as if you speak for all "hardcore pvpers or pvers," but you don't. The fun has not left the game just because less hardcore people can now acquire inferior gear through LFR. That is, frankly, a stupid and elitist notion. Why should I care if less serious players can get weaker gear using easier means? All of your rule suggestions seem geared toward making it harder for PVE people to try PVP and vice versa. Your suggestions seem more geared toward presenting yourself as a badass than they due toward improving the experience of the game.
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Demiurge
Azjol-Nerub
Demiurge
8/30/2012
@Senate: the real problem was making good PVP gear harder to get. the BC system was great, you could slowly earn glad gear as long as you did the matches.
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Redø
Nazjatar
Redø
8/31/2012
@Fbudzie: " ...u owned in rbgs and arena as long as u had a good healer. "

Well, yeah. If you have an uber heals, anyone can own anyone.

The rest is too foamy and wannabe elitisms.
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Smithfingers
Fizzcrank
Smithfingers
8/28/2012
Why wouldn't you just make a seperate heading on the character screen (defence, melee, etc.) that lists pvp stats like resilience and power, instead of giving them hokey names like PvP power and PvP defence? Is anyone really going to be confused by this? Like are people running around doing raids in ruthless sets?
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Prìncêgóthîc
Gorefiend
Prìncêgóthîc
8/28/2012
with all the crying from people they might lol
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Lorp
Darrowmere
Lorp
8/28/2012
I am not the best player in the game i could be the worst but i play the game to have fun and to hopefully help others to have fun. I Believe that evry player that pays to play should be able to play even if they are not great players Aittle hep and respect goes along ways
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Lorp
Darrowmere
Lorp
8/28/2012
There are PVP relms. that is all u do if u play on a normal relm u have to switch back and forth i agrre that there should be a more stable money system but u decide what relm u play on and I don think that Blizzard shoyuld or can be responsible for the relms we decide to play on so if u choosse a normal relm we have to put up with the restrictions for that relm i am sure the money situation is differant on PVP relms
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ßeefcäke
Illidan
ßeefcäke
8/28/2012
Excuse me, Did it ever occur to Ghost Crawler and or blizzard that a shield is one of the only things that keep warriors alive? Say on madness I am about to be impaled. Should my block be on diminishing i will be one shotted as that is the only way to reduce damage taken from it(other than dream at the first platform)and not be 1 shotted which i have witnessed before. However i relise that you might say healers should be able to keep you from being killed. Well in the game I am known as a tank. Ie I am supposed to take much less damage then other people so that i am easy to keep alive or so that healers can concentrate on other people. As a warrior i rely heavly on block to allow me to constantly block lowering my overall damage taken per attack say 22,000(45,000) blocked rather than taking the full 77,000 blow i block most of it. Now during a adds there will be attacks over and over with diminishing i will block some and take the grunt force of the others at which point it would feel more necessary to stack dodge or parry. Now unless shields become obsolete for these "shield bearing classes I would prefer to rely on constant lower damage than a chance to take no damage(dodge or parry) or taking all of it. Please think about this for a while as I believe you will here about it at a later time from other individuals such as I.
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Kooves
Mal'Ganis
Kooves
8/28/2012
Hey, I enjoy pvp so this is a quality of life buff for me but it's still strange that it's easier to go from pvp to pve than to go from pve to pvp. And again, while I personally don't like PvE all that much atm, I'm not too sure I enjoy the idea of a few well chosen top end PvE piece being less useful than its cookie cutter pvp counterpart. Where's the thought process? I don't mean ghostcrawler's, I mean ours.
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Titanfour
Bonechewer
Titanfour
8/27/2012
why not have some sort of "gear renting" system,lets say if you have 3 pieces of t12 and youd like to do a few bg's you could trade in your 3 pieces of t12 for 3 pieces of season 12 gear,and vice-versa.and then after youre bored go back to the rent vendor and get em back.idk it might be dumb but just a thought
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Thànatos
Skullcrusher
Thànatos
8/27/2012
sick no more pvp in pve
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Guuduu
Illidan
Guuduu
8/27/2012
agree
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Artoreus
Laughing Skull
Artoreus
8/26/2012
It'd be awesome if the pvp titles were brought back from vanilla. Or something similar. i.e. blood guard. first sergeant. etc. That was really neat.
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@Artoreus: They actually already did, you would have to do, i believe Rated bg inorder to get those titles. you get them by your ratings
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Hugemofoz
Bronzebeard
Hugemofoz
8/27/2012
@Artoreus: what blax says is true rated bgs
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Maverìck
Akama
Maverìck
8/26/2012
I think all this retarded PVP gear and stats need to disappear completely. I remember back when I was in full Bloodfang with perditions and the AQ dagger, I was feared on my server as one of the deadliest rogues, being as I was one of the first with a full set of T2. Now that we have PvP gear, some kid plays for a couple weeks, gets full gladiators, and stomps my face in even though one of my toons is wearing gear that takes months and months to get. All I'm saying is that their needs to be a happy medium where PvE player that want to PvP don't get mollywhopped by people with their full gladiator's they acquired in a week, and PvP players don't get shunned, laughed at, and excluded when they want to try out raiding and what not.
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Smithfingers
Fizzcrank
Smithfingers
8/28/2012
@Maverìck: I think that's exactly what they are trying to do. Notice they are lowering the ilvl of PvP gear in relation to that of PvE.
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Rastaimposta
Tichondrius
Rastaimposta
8/29/2012
@Maverìck: You're vastly exarggerating this. With a 1650 cap on conquest points, it does take months to get a full set of top-end PvP gear. You just want to be a PvE hero that can roll face in PvP without having to put in the time the rest of us do. Plus its totally possible to have a respectable PvE set and full cata, as I and many others do.
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Redø
Nazjatar
Redø
8/31/2012
@Maverìck: Your veiled plea of betterment for the game simply comes off like sour g%#!@s. The road to progress can be a bumpy one, tiger.
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Viciall
Antonidas
Viciall
8/26/2012
Also I agree a more steady gold income for PvPers would be excellent.
Possibly give Battlemasters a purpose again - perhaps when you queue through a Battlemaster you get 25G when you win in their Battleground. When you queue for Arenas from an Arena Battlemaster you get 5/10G per win. Something like that would be cool, IMO.
Really, I'd like to see Marks of Honor make a return and the Random battleground system out, but I know that's not gonna happen.
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Maverìck
Akama
Maverìck
8/26/2012
@Viciall: Or you guys could just go kill some monsters. Thats what everyone else does. Its not like that PvP gear is exclusively for PvP, you can go kill simple mobs. Grinding your average level 85 mob and just selling vendor trash and auctioning greens/blues for about an hour can easily yield 200-1000g depending on luck, not to mention if you have skinning or something to go with it.
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Dns
Lightning's Blade
Dns
8/27/2012
@Maverìck: PvPers don't want to go out and kill boars for money dude. Viciall's idea is great. Let players play the game how they want to without having to spend "about an hour" mindlessly killing mobs - that isn't fun.
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Mingzia
Vashj
Mingzia
8/27/2012
@Dns: Agreed.
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Chkmate
Darrowmere
Chkmate
8/27/2012
@Maverìck: that was also when rogues didn't need any gear to destroy any class. you were probably another garbage pve hero that thought he was good at pvp because rogues we're incredibly strong all of vanilla.