Nazgrim's Burnished Insignia Needs Change

90 Goblin Shaman
9110
Edit: You can disregard some of the below post. My main concern at the moment is allowing this trinket to proc with healing stream and healing tide totem. The things mentioned below still bother me, but they are not as important.

I've been getting this feeling for awhile, mainly because I feel like It's a waste to use my 544 NBI over my 530 Shado-pan trinket. Not because the shado-pan trinket is quite nice, but because NBI doesn't seem to be anywhere near worthy of being an SoO drop...I'll explain a few tests I did in a moment.

1st test was simply me being hit by 3 mobs for however long, only using healing rain and healing stream totem. The amount of NBI heal procs was zero until it procced off earthliving, and this was well after healing rain had healed me for about 70-80 times.

After a bit, it started proccing quite often...about once every 6-7 seconds for perhaps 5-6 times; after that? It stopped again. During this solo test, It did not proc off my healing stream ONCE...(yes, i was paying attention to my combat log, and checked it whenever the counter went up for Multistrike)

This test led me to believe that the trinket has a not only hidden, but broken PPM built into it, when the trinket itself says nothing of the sort. Blizzard has tried making actual PPM trinkets proc the correct amount, so I'm thinking that might be affecting NBI.

The second test actually showed me what was wrong with it. While in the Dread Approach, on Imperial Vizer, here is what my HEALING and OVER HEALING looked like; you'll understand the problem when you see this:

HEALING:
Amount: 347,232
Procs: 50
Avg: 6945
Max: 16488
Percent of healing: 2%

OVER HEALING:
Amount: 1,008,739
Procs: 128
Avg: 8201
Max: 24396
Percent of healing: 4.9%

If you don't understand what It means, I'll tell you. Basically, the trinket is not a smart heal. If you heal someone, especially if you top them off, what's going to happen to the Multistrike healing? Overheal - useless.

I was happy to finally get my first raiding item after 19 chances and only one other item, but this trinket is seriously depressing and deserves a hot-fix. I'm not entirely sure why I upgraded it once... : \

The other problem with it is more of what I see to be a design flaw: proccing int on a healer trinket. Why do I see this as a flaw? Well, the int is incredible...there's no doubt about it; however what happens when it procs when there's no need for it? All the stats allocated to this proc have literally been wasted.

Combining both these things together makes for a trinket not even worthy of MSV normal, and that's 54 ilvl's behind.

Please...please fix this trinket. I want it to be useful. :(

I'll be sending this in a bug report in-game, and posting it on the bug report forum if anyone would like to support it. >_>
Edited by Chawana on 9/27/2013 7:10 PM PDT
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90 Pandaren Priest
14930
This was reported on the PTR. They didn't seem interested in fixing it.
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90 Night Elf Druid
10265
HST is usually classified as a pet for trinket procs, so Multistrike shouldn't be procing off it. Multistrike has a .2% chance to proc off your heals, it is not a PPM proc, so it will proc inconsistently. The trinket also states that it heals the target for an additional 33%, not that it heals a nearby friendly target for 33%.

I do agree that Int procs for healers is a bad idea. It would be better if it was an on use buff.
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90 Night Elf Druid
7230
I got this trinket and was actually pretty excited about it. I tried it out and it procced many times for me. I am not saying that it may not be broken, but maybe because as a druid we have many small heals there is more of a chance for the proc chance to equalize. And maybe it doesn't even work with HST or HTT. Also as a shaman, you already have huge heals. When this trinket does proc, it is not surprising that the trinket overheals.

Usually I was getting between 4-6% of my healing from this trinket which is more then the lightning chalice from Lei Shen. And yes. I also agree that an int proc isn't as useful but there are trade offs to everything.
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90 Goblin Shaman
9110
HST is usually classified as a pet for trinket procs, so Multistrike shouldn't be procing off it. Multistrike has a .2% chance to proc off your heals, it is not a PPM proc, so it will proc inconsistently. The trinket also states that it heals the target for an additional 33%, not that it heals a nearby friendly target for 33%.

I do agree that Int procs for healers is a bad idea. It would be better if it was an on use buff.


I'm aware as to what it states...I'm saying that It's dumb and wrong.

It's bad to the point of being broken, because the stats are literally being wasted.
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90 Goblin Shaman
9110
I got this trinket and was actually pretty excited about it. I tried it out and it procced many times for me. I am not saying that it may not be broken, but maybe because as a druid we have many small heals there is more of a chance for the proc chance to equalize. And maybe it doesn't even work with HST or HTT. Also as a shaman, you already have huge heals. When this trinket does proc, it is not surprising that the trinket overheals.

Usually I was getting between 4-6% of my healing from this trinket which is more then the lightning chalice from Lei Shen. And yes. I also agree that an int proc isn't as useful but there are trade offs to everything.


You're forgetting that the Chalice has static int PLUS the heal, and is also a lower Ilvl than NBI.

The trinket doing 2-4% of your healing isn't actually too big...I could use any static int trinket and have that extra healing on ALL my smart-heals, such as chainheal, healing rain and healing stream totem.

The trinket needs to be changed to a smart heal. As stated in my main post, as it is, it's not worth being an SoO trinket.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
15390
I got the trinket last night and was messing with it. On spoils it did roughly 500k healing with 79% overheal. Also got Thoks tooth, it is equally bad. So long story short there is 1 maybe two good trinkets from SoO rest are pretty bad.
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90 Night Elf Druid
7230
I got the trinket last night and was messing with it. On spoils it did roughly 500k healing with 79% overheal. Also got Thoks tooth, it is equally bad. So long story short there is 1 maybe two good trinkets from SoO rest are pretty bad.


I think as a resto shaman doing ten man normals, these trinkets will be wasted. As a shaman, already having big heals, the extra 33% heal will be wasted. Also with only a 3% chance for a heal to cleave, many times the Thok's trinket will be wasted due to the lower amount of healing casts shamans have compared to the volume of druid healing ticks.

For example, a single chain heal bounces 4 times, out of every bounce, the trinket has a 16% chance to proc for multistrike, or a 3% chance to proc for Thok's. For a resto druid, a single wild growth for me at the 13k haste breakpoint has 70 ticks of heals, (126 ticks assuming i use Soul of the forest on wild growth which i normally do). My heals are smaller and have a higher chance of getting a proc with a single cast due to my heals ticking and yours being casts. Also since they are smaller heals but a lot of them, they have a less chance of overhealing when they do proc.

Also since it does not proc off of your totems this is also a disadvantage to shaman. Maybe these trinkets are just not shaman trinkets but as a druid I can see these trinkets being put to good use.
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90 Goblin Shaman
9110
Grizz, healing rain would not be considered a 'big heal', but 'many small heals'.

I forgot to mention that the boss fight I showed I ONLY used healing steam totem and healing rain...pretty important facts, I suppose.

And yes, I SS'd recount.
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90 Goblin Shaman
9110
[quote]

Also since it does not proc off of your totems this is also a disadvantage to shaman. Maybe these trinkets are just not shaman trinkets but as a druid I can see these trinkets being put to good use.


This is simply one of the many design flaws that Blizzard fails at recognizing. There should NOT be trinkets which simply 'do not work for X class'....

I understand and think it's great when blizzard makes items which are a little outside the box, but for crying out loud...don't make it crappy just because it's inventive.

I know they'll hate me for saying this, but I could come up with a much more well rounded trinket easily. I'm only mentioning this because of the person who said this was mentioned on the PTR. I really do wish Blizzard would stop ignoring valid feedback.

edit: omitted some unnecessary words.
Edited by Chawana on 9/23/2013 12:46 PM PDT
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90 Troll Shaman
18930
3-4% healing done from the cleave/multistrike proc really isn't particularly awful. Most healers can get about a 1% throughput increase from 600 INT, so the proc is worth the equivalent of 1800-2400 INT. That's in line with what you would get from static INT of a trinket at that ilvl, so it isn't really that awful, and is probably in line with the gains from Samophlange or Prismatic Prison (unless Prismatic Prison gets you to an otherwise unattainable haste breakpoint).

The disadvantage is that static INT is more reliable than an AoE healing proc. The advantage is that the very high overhealing numbers from this trinket and Thok's means that it has a very high ceiling on fights or portions of fights where overhealing drops way off and healing matters the most, which might make it better for a raid healer on some very healing intensive heroic progression fights.

All in all, I think all 4 of the SoO healing trinkets are reasonably balanced with each other.
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90 Pandaren Priest
8345
wasn't windward heart about 4% healing on average? and maw? and nobody really ever complained about those?

and they were also undoubtedly BiS for every healer?
Edited by Truelite on 9/23/2013 3:43 PM PDT
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90 Troll Shaman
18930
wasn't windward heart about 4% healing on average? and maw? and nobody really ever complained about those?

and they were also undoubtedly BiS for every healer?


Windward Heart and the similar Alysrazor trinket from the previous tier were probably about 4% on average. They weren't the clear BiS though. Shard of Woe from the previous tier remained BiS until they nerfed it going into T13. It was then a personal choice between the Alysrazor heal proc trinket or Jaws of Defeat (regen stack trinket).

For T13, there were 3 trinket options - 1 was the higher ilvl Spine stacking Spirit trinket which was by far BiS for everyone. There was then the choice between Windward Heart and an INT/haste proc trinket. Windward Heart was random boss loot and pretty hard to get, but it was kind of even with Seal of Seven Signs.

Maw of the Dragonlord was closer to 10% of total output - it was more powerful than our actual legendary cloaks are now, and was the clear BiS for every one. But, that was a weapon not a trinket, and it also had no secondary stats on it.
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90 Pandaren Monk
9410
I usually get 2-3% from the multi strike, which is what I expect
From a proc like this. That on top of the Intel seems pretty good to me.

I think I actually had a 6% once which might be to good.
I don't really care how much overhealing there is on a passive proc when the end result is acceptable.
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90 Pandaren Priest
8345
i could have sworn maw was weaker than that but w/e

the most i remember about trinkets last expac was that rune of zeth was not, in fact, bis t13.
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90 Goblin Shaman
9110
3-4% healing done from the cleave/multistrike proc really isn't particularly awful. Most healers can get about a 1% throughput increase from 600 INT, so the proc is worth the equivalent of 1800-2400 INT. That's in line with what you would get from static INT of a trinket at that ilvl, so it isn't really that awful, and is probably in line with the gains from Samophlange or Prismatic Prison (unless Prismatic Prison gets you to an otherwise unattainable haste breakpoint).

The disadvantage is that static INT is more reliable than an AoE healing proc. The advantage is that the very high overhealing numbers from this trinket and Thok's means that it has a very high ceiling on fights or portions of fights where overhealing drops way off and healing matters the most, which might make it better for a raid healer on some very healing intensive heroic progression fights.

All in all, I think all 4 of the SoO healing trinkets are reasonably balanced with each other.


You have a point, but I'm very much disliking how randomly it seems to proc...which is the same for Its int proc as well.

It seems to proc decently at times, then not at all for a long time after.

I am often stuck with it at 2% of my healing, so you guys are quite lucky to have it at 4%...

I'll give it another shot, but I really do think the trinket needs some changes...
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90 Goblin Shaman
9110
Alright, so...Jin'rokh it was 2.7%. I chose him due to the amount of damage gets done, which means less over healing. So yeah, there was less overhealing, but not a ton; 2.7% is quite high compared to most fights I do.

However, one flaw is still as apparent as ever: it doesn't proc off Healing stream totem. This means Rushing Streams is an invalid talent to use with this trinket, which shouldn't be the case at all. THIS needs to be fixed...

I might as well make a suggestion, since I'm at it...

Here's the current one:
Equip: Your heals have a (124 / 10)% chance to trigger Multistrike, which causes instant additional healing to your target equal to 33% of the original healing done.

Here's how I'd change it:
Equip: Your heals have a 12.4% chance to trigger Multistrike, which causes instant additional healing to your target equal to 33% of the original healing done the next time they take damage or when 'multistrike' fades

Basically, give them a short term buff, which will trigger when they take damage, or when the timer expires, which would be 6 seconds or so.

Equip: Your helpful spells have a chance to grant 10420 Intellect for 10 sec. (Approximately 0.92 procs per minute)

When this procs, It's amazing; problem being, healing is about timing, not mashing a rotation like dps. With that said, this proc would be utterly insane for a dps caster.

This might be odd, but perhaps you guys could start doing 'alternate use' trinkets. For example, use the shift-right click function to open the trinkets 'inner mechanism'. For this trinket, you could either leave it as is, or:

Equip: Your helpful spells have a chance to grant you one charge of _____, up to a maximum of 5 charges.
Use: Consume all ______ charges, increasing your intellect by 2084 for each charge consumed.

I'm not sure on the CD, but 1 to 1.5 minutes would be ok, I suppose.

I just get a little frustrated when I get an awesome proc at the wrong time - directly before the right time is even worse.

But I'm feeling like this is a lost cause. Whatever...
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90 Gnome Priest
19365
Shouldn't all this over-healing play into the legendary healing cloak?
You would think the combination of both the cloak and trinket could produce some powerful results (albeit inconsistently).
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90 Night Elf Druid
9240


However, one flaw is still as apparent as ever: it doesn't proc off Healing stream totem. This means Rushing Streams is an invalid talent to use with this trinket, which shouldn't be the case at all. THIS needs to be fixed...


*blinks*

really? i think you are overreacting just a tad. :P

heal proc trinkets often go to overheal, this is not a new concept. you cannot depend on RNG to be in your favor at all the right times.

i'm still not sure what exactly you think is broken about this. not liking the random proc rate does not count as broken.
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90 Human Priest
18800
Just take the conservative approach that all non-smart heal procs and all throughput procs are going to be worth nothing. Sure, you will miss out if there ever happens to be a worthwhile one. However, you don't have the constant disappointment of crappy trinkets that you hoped were good.

Procs that I don't like: intellect, haste, crit, mastery, multi-strike, cleave

Procs that I do like: spirit, mp5

On use that I like: intellect, spirit, haste, crit, mastery, %healing increase

On use that I don't like: anything that messes with my mouseover macros and requires a new one

Equip that I like: see on use that I like

(Edit: I just assume that they design healer trinkets like dps ones to make things simple, because they have no idea what would be really nice for healing, because they think healers would be OP with nice trinkets, because they want to make a bunch of DE fodder, or because they don't want healers to have nice things. Pick one or more... I don't really bother with deciding).
Edited by Nzete on 9/24/2013 11:08 AM PDT
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