Nazgrim's Burnished Insignia Needs Change

I disliked it so much that I kept my 504 spirit of the sun and let the paladin who I outrolled have it. I'd rather having a trinket 50 ilvls lower than this which is pretty sad. Currently trying to get a trinket off of sha of pride but that will probably prove as successful as horridon which I never saw drop a trinket in 13 kills (I coined his ring twice though...). Trinkets just put me in a bad mood.
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100 Goblin Shaman
10045
So, did some fights with Rushing Streams, and this trinket id a whopping 1-1.5%.

Gee, what an awesome trinket, especially for a shaman!

Also, it doesn't proc off healing tide if it doesn't proc off healing stream...this absolutely needs to change.

Shouldn't all this over-healing play into the legendary healing cloak?
You would think the combination of both the cloak and trinket could produce some powerful results (albeit inconsistently).


Incredibly inconsistent, and not really worth mentioning.
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100 Pandaren Monk
9105
It's amusing, because my entire classes healing mechanics are all inconsistent.

And when you add up the legendary cloak, thok cleave trinket, and innate class randomness...

You get pretty reliable results, surprisingly, since I get well over 3-4 thousand proc chances for any of those spells.

On those grounds and on my class, the two trinkets are extremely powerful (borderline OP, thok's trinket has ridiculous output).

On the grounds that the trinkets don't proc off totems, perhaps that should be fixed (though rsham are plenty powerful atm, tbh.)

On the grounds that the trinkets are always overheal for you:

If your heal is already overheal, then it doesn't matter WTF the trinket is, it will be overheal. If it's producing large amounts of effective healing in addition to overhealing, that means it is as good as whatever secondary stat + it scales as healing demands increase, which is very cool and relatively rare from a proc trinket.

As for what 600 int does, it sure as heck doesnt give me a 1% effective healing increase, and thok's gives me 5-8% on stack fights, so even at 600 int/per 1% (it's more than that), we're talking 3000-4800 int.
(In theory, 1200 crit rating is 2% crit is 1.42/1.40~ =>1.43% increase. 6.5/1.43 * 1200 =>5000 crit rating, clearly out-budgeting every other trinket including amp trinkets, which are extremely powerful at high ilvls like mine)

AKA, on progression heroic fights (where you actually need real healing and every trinket and anything over ilvl 520 is complete overkill) the SoO trinkets are amazing. I'm sorry that you experience large amounts of overhealing from trinkets which proc after your heals hit on fights where a single heal tops off the players which you healed. You are clearly in extreme need of extra healing and this trinket clearly is not theoretically able nor realistically providing this extra healing.
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99 Troll Shaman
4415
I'm thinking about getting creative with it.

If I grab Echo of Elements and a Hasty Crit build, then spam Chain Heal, I bet you'd get lots of awesome procs of randomness. Because each hit from Chain Heal has it's own chance for these kinds of procs.
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100 Goblin Shaman
10045
It's amusing, because my entire classes healing mechanics are all inconsistent.

And when you add up the legendary cloak, thok cleave trinket, and innate class randomness...

You get pretty reliable results, surprisingly, since I get well over 3-4 thousand proc chances for any of those spells.

On those grounds and on my class, the two trinkets are extremely powerful (borderline OP, thok's trinket has ridiculous output).

On the grounds that the trinkets don't proc off totems, perhaps that should be fixed (though rsham are plenty powerful atm, tbh.)

On the grounds that the trinkets are always overheal for you:

If your heal is already overheal, then it doesn't matter WTF the trinket is, it will be overheal. If it's producing large amounts of effective healing in addition to overhealing, that means it is as good as whatever secondary stat + it scales as healing demands increase, which is very cool and relatively rare from a proc trinket.

As for what 600 int does, it sure as heck doesnt give me a 1% effective healing increase, and thok's gives me 5-8% on stack fights, so even at 600 int/per 1% (it's more than that), we're talking 3000-4800 int.
(In theory, 1200 crit rating is 2% crit is 1.42/1.40~ =>1.43% increase. 6.5/1.43 * 1200 =>5000 crit rating, clearly out-budgeting every other trinket including amp trinkets, which are extremely powerful at high ilvls like mine)

AKA, on progression heroic fights (where you actually need real healing and every trinket and anything over ilvl 520 is complete overkill) the SoO trinkets are amazing. I'm sorry that you experience large amounts of overhealing from trinkets which proc after your heals hit on fights where a single heal tops off the players which you healed. You are clearly in extreme need of extra healing and this trinket clearly is not theoretically able nor realistically providing this extra healing.


The pretentiousness in your post is sickening.

5-8%? Obviously it'd be amazing if it did that every fight. You assume I only do fights which don't require a lot of healing, but that's an assumption which makes you look like an idiot.

I did Jin'rokh, and was at 240k HPS; the trinket did 2.7% of my healing.

The trinket it replaces is 1780-ish int, not 600. The fact that you're assuming the trinket will be 5-8% every normal fight is just utterly stupid, which makes your 3000-4800 int comparison worthless.

I also don't give a damn if resto shamans are doing well; trinkets are meant to be useful, and if it simply doesn't work for one class, It's not right.

It does indeed work quite well when you're not topping people off, but that's the minority of cases.

The trinket needs to be changed one way or another...It's quite simple.
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100 Draenei Priest
8735
trinkets are meant to be useful

Every throughput trinket from last tier would like a word. or a buff.

It's ok for some trinkets to work better for some healing specs than others.

You assume I only do fights which don't require a lot of healing, but that's an assumption which makes you look like an idiot.

I did [normal] Jin'rokh

rofl.
Edited by Evry on 9/27/2013 1:07 PM PDT
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90 Undead Monk
13535
The pretentiousness in your post is sickening


Actually I thought his post was pretty informative.

I think the crap you said in your post was much worse.

As for me, it does about 3-6% of my healing depending on the fight. I'll take the free heals plus the Int proc.
Edited by Dijital on 9/27/2013 1:06 PM PDT
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90 Night Elf Druid
11835
The pretentiousness in your post is sickening.


Condescension would probably have been a better term than "pretentiousness," which sounds rather awkward, but I also thought his post was pretty useful, if humbling.

I've read the thread and you don't exactly come off as a sunny individual. I don't blame him for striking a tone.

5-8%? Obviously it'd be amazing if it did that every fight. You assume I only do fights which don't require a lot of healing, but that's an assumption which makes you look like an idiot.


The bottom line is that you've only done SoO on flex and LFR (like myself) and one normal ToT boss (also, lol, like myself!). You have not experienced intense healing demand. And I'll tell you this - most of my spells do an average of 50-70% overhealing in LFR. That's the nature of healing fights that don't do damage (especially with a HoT class). They dropped to 20-30% when I did a couple normal SoO bosses last night.

I also don't give a damn if resto shamans are doing well; trinkets are meant to be useful, and if it simply doesn't work for one class, It's not right.


And this is simply unfair and shortsighted. Different classes work in different ways. It would be incredibly difficult to design trinkets that would benefit them all equally - and if it were, then there would only be two trinkets that everyone was gunning for and all the rest would be placeholders. That's boring and lame.

09/27/2013 12:47 PMPosted by Chawana
It does indeed work quite well when you're not topping people off, but that's the minority of cases.


In LFR.

The trinket needs to be changed one way or another...It's quite simple.


Nah
Edited by Cinnabuns on 9/27/2013 3:54 PM PDT
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100 Goblin Shaman
10045
So, on Iron juggernaut:

2.1% healing
3.5% overhealing

That's a total of 5.6%, which is on the low-end of how much effective healing he mentioned having.

And this is simply unfair and shortsighted. Different classes work in different ways. It would be incredibly difficult to design trinkets that will benefit them all equally - and if it did, then there would only be two trinkets that everyone was gunning for and all the rest would be placeholders. That's boring and lame.


I'm alright with a trinket being more effective for some than others. What I am getting at, is that this 544(1 upgrade) trinket doesn't measure up to my 530 (2 upgrades) trinket.

I have experienced plenty of healing demand, because some of my flex runs are me carrying other healers. As stated. after doing 240k on Jin, i only got 2.7% out of it. Better than usual, but still not good enough for the level of this trinket.

You think it doesn't need to be changed? So, it should remain not proccing off totems? You're saying what I'm saying is unfair and shortsighted, when you can't see something so blatantly unfair. HST is a core ability of ours, and this trinket not proccing off it is quite a big deal.

As for your semantical distaste with the word I used to describe him...really? People on these forums are petty, I realize that, but...really?

09/27/2013 01:05 PMPosted by Dijital
The pretentiousness in your post is sickening


Actually I thought his post was pretty informative.

I think the crap you said in your post was much worse.

As for me, it does about 3-6% of my healing depending on the fight. I'll take the free heals plus the Int proc.


Do you have a reason for saying this? The second you saw me write that sentence, you suddenly felt like you were on the side of justice, right?

So please, do tell me why this trinket shouldn't work with healing stream/tide totem; I'd love to hear your well thought out reasons. "well some can and some can't" Isn't a reason...just so you know.

09/27/2013 01:00 PMPosted by Evry
trinkets are meant to be useful

Every throughput trinket from last tier would like a word. or a buff.

It's ok for some trinkets to work better for some healing specs than others.

You assume I only do fights which don't require a lot of healing, but that's an assumption which makes you look like an idiot.

I did [normal] Jin'rokh

rofl.


I assume you missed the part where I mentioned the HPS I did? It's not impressive by any means, but because the other healers weren't doing anything, I was able to get those numbers.

Out of 240k HPS (meaning much less overheal) it gave me 2.7% of my healing. You didn't read my other post, though, so I don't expect you to read this one either.
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100 Draenei Priest
8735
So please, do tell me why this trinket shouldn't work with healing stream/tide totem; I'd love to hear your well thought out reasons. "well some can and some can't" Isn't a reason...just so you know.

Yes it is. It's how blizzard designed it. Why do some trinkets/procs not proc from Absorbs? or from atonement heals? The multi-strike dps trinket has the same 'issue' where it doesn't proc from pets/minions/guardians (afaik). Those classes that get a significant amount of dps from pets simply use another trinket.

What I am getting at, is that this 544(1 upgrade) trinket doesn't measure up to my 530 (2 upgrades) trinket.

Maybe you didn't heal last tier, idk, but both the Hydra spawn bag and Primordius Relic were terrible. Worse than any other option available and Blizzard never fixed them. So if you're getting what you say you're getting out of that trinket, then it's already better than any of the Heroic "throughput" trinkets I have from last tier, except maaaaybe chalice which can get up to an amazing 3% contribution.

This particular trinket seems pretty useful for some healers, so I don't see the problem with it. The Amp trinket from sha is pretty nifty for Resto Shamans, and you can use the spirit one from Siegecrafter to decent effect. I don't now how the cleave one from Thok pans out for you. Point is, there are always lackluster trinkets. Demanding blizzard fix one that underperforms for you is petty, and probably not going to happen.
Edited by Evry on 9/27/2013 4:19 PM PDT
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100 Night Elf Druid
9600
S
As for your semantical distaste with the word I used to describe him...really? People on these forums are petty, I realize that, but...really?


You have a terrible unpleasant tone to your posts and you're complaining about a proc heal trinket overhealing in LFR.

In other words, this entire thread is ridiculous.

The only thing I agree on is that it probably could be changed to proc from HST, but if you think that is going to make it be more effective and less overhealy, you must not have much experience with heal proc trinkets. :P
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90 Night Elf Druid
11835
09/27/2013 04:02 PMPosted by Chawana
You think it doesn't need to be changed? So, it should remain not proccing off totems? You're saying what I'm saying is unfair and shortsighted, when you can't see something so blatantly unfair.


Your demand that the trinket be "fixed" because it's better for some classes was unfair because it was unreasonable.

No, I didn't say it doesn't need to be changed.. I don't have an answer for that. I also don't know why it doesn't work for totems. I assume that the way they work - this is just a guess - is that the shaman's stats buff the totem when it's dropped and from that point forward, it's basically its own entity. That would explain why totems aren't affected by the trinket, though I don't know if they've been affected by similar trinkets in the past, or if they interact that way with Thok's trinket. I don't even know if it's intended.

I mean, if you wanna stick with your SPA trinket, that's your call, homie G. But I'm not sure what's proven that Burnished Insignia is an inferior choice.

Out of 240k HPS (meaning much less overheal) it gave me 2.7% of my healing. You didn't read my other post, though, so I don't expect you to read this one either.


Why would high hps mean that you did less overhealing?

And the trinket's output shouldn't really vary based on your hps..

As for your semantical distaste with the word I used to describe him...really? People on these forums are petty, I realize that, but...really?


Yes, really. An equally awkward word: "semantical." I don't even think that is a word. No, I'm just messing with you. But I do care about grammar.
Edited by Cinnabuns on 9/27/2013 4:53 PM PDT
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100 Goblin Shaman
10045
High HPS = more damage being done, which means more chances for the proc to be effective healing....

Yes, Semantical had a red line under it; It's not a proper word, but you know what I mean.

So, your whole argument against me is that I'm demanding the trinket be changed, eh? You're blowing things out of proportion. If you read properly, you'd see that it was a request. You're only seeing it as a demand because I'm rude to people

S
As for your semantical distaste with the word I used to describe him...really? People on these forums are petty, I realize that, but...really?


You have a terrible unpleasant tone to your posts and you're complaining about a proc heal trinket overhealing in LFR.

In other words, this entire thread is ridiculous.

The only thing I agree on is that it probably could be changed to proc from HST, but if you think that is going to make it be more effective and less overhealy, you must not have much experience with heal proc trinkets. :P


It does the same type of healing in both flex and LFR. People were saying how in fights with more demand it would do better, but as stated, I have done plenty of fights in which I needed to carry other healers. I'm not demeaning them, It's simply what happened.

Me needing to do more healing means the fight was more demanding, meaning there was less chance of the spell overhealing.

My tone really has nothing to do with the fact that this trinket simply doesn't work with one of the most important shaman spells.

Evry,: yes, the hydra bag or whatever it's called sucked; however that doesn't mean this one should remain like this.
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90 Night Elf Druid
11835
So, your whole argument against me is that I'm demanding the trinket be changed, eh? You're blowing things out of proportion. If you read properly, you'd see that it was a request. You're only seeing it as a demand because I'm rude to people


LOL, I'm done with this thread.
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100 Goblin Shaman
10045
I do like how everyone jumps on me being rude when the other guy was clearly mocking me for making a request. I do not believe my original post was made in a way to deserve such an intolerant (condescending for that one person) reply.

I'm sorry that you experience large amounts of overhealing from trinkets which proc after your heals hit on fights where a single heal tops off the players which you healed. You are clearly in extreme need of extra healing and this trinket clearly is not theoretically able nor realistically providing this extra healing.


It's unnecessary responses like this which not only miss the point of a post, but use their raiding experience as a means to downplay the opinion of others. I've raided plenty in the past, but guess what? That's beside the point.

If the trinket works well for you, great; It's quite apparent that it isn't working well for me, and that's why I made this thread. If you can't realize that, then why make a redundant insult which doesn't benefit the discussion in either way?

By no means am I saying I haven't insulting anyone. I tend to insult those who base their entire post on something on everything BUT the actual topic...In the case of this quote, he tried to be helpful with some unrealistic math, and then proceeded to toss insults out.

I'm having a hard time understanding the point behind most of these posts.
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100 Goblin Shaman
10045
09/27/2013 06:46 PMPosted by Cinnabuns
So, your whole argument against me is that I'm demanding the trinket be changed, eh? You're blowing things out of proportion. If you read properly, you'd see that it was a request. You're only seeing it as a demand because I'm rude to people


LOL, I'm done with this thread.


So, are you a Blizzard employee, then?

Demanding a change would mean I'm speaking to the developers in a rude way. Me admitting to being rude to another player like yourself really doesn't mean much.

I responded to a rude post rudely, but my point has remained the same.

But please, I hope you are done with this thread; you haven't added more than a few words of value to the actual subject anyway.
Edited by Chawana on 9/27/2013 6:59 PM PDT
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90 Troll Shaman
18930
I think you need to seriously get a grip. The trinket is not that far out of line of the expected stat budget for a trinket, even for Resto Shaman. I have seen logs of Resto Shaman with it equipped (I don't have one to play with yet) where it is adding 3%-4% extra healing. Even at 1% healing, it still beats the Lei Shen trinket. It is nowhere close to as bad as the Inscribed Bag or Primordius trinkets either. It is an upgrade over every pre-5.4 trinket with the exception of the higher ilvl Horridon trinkets.

My math on it is that the multistrike proc needs to give at least 3.5% of a total output gain before it starts to become better than Samophlange (Prismatic Prison of Pride is the clear best trinket). It is close to that point in some Shaman logs that I have seen. It is reasonably competitive with the other SoO trinkets. There is nothing game breaking wrong with it.
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100 Goblin Shaman
10045
Have you actually used it?

edit: i know you said you haven't played with it yet...but that's the point. It's completely random for me.

I'm comparing it to losing 1800 int, and the 30k mana on use...sure, the multistrike in itself is nice, but i don't see it being worth the loss of what i mentioned above.
Edited by Chawana on 9/27/2013 7:07 PM PDT
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90 Troll Shaman
18930
Have you actually used it?


No, but I have reviewed logs of Resto Shaman that have. The MS proc is at least twice as good as the Lei Shen trinket is.
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100 Goblin Shaman
10045
Sorry, forgot to add some info. Read the edit. :|

edit: at best, it has given me 2.7% of my healing.

My main concern right now, actually, is simply allowing it to proc with HST/MTT.
Edited by Chawana on 9/27/2013 7:08 PM PDT
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