Do any other healers not like healing 25 man?

90 Blood Elf Priest
14460
Sadly 25 mans are dead on my server (save for one guild I don't care to join what-so-ever), but I had a lot more fun vs 10 man (my current guild). My first raiding experience was 10 man, and though it feels more tight knit with less turnover, I still feel like I can get to know everyone I raid with well in 25.

10 man just doesn't feel as... epic... if that makes any sense.

Healing wise, you have a lot more cd's it feels in 25, but that's about the difference. You still have to work hard to succeed and cover more players.
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96 Tauren Monk
17270
I never understood the whole "10man is more social than 25man" - If I raid with a group for more than a few months I will know pretty much everyone. I may not talk to everyone all the time, but I socialize and interact with them. It's the same in a 10man. I know everyone, don't socialize with all of them all the time, but I know them.

25mans are just one giant dysfunctional family.
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90 Tauren Druid
8435
I never understood the whole "10man is more social than 25man" - If I raid with a group for more than a few months I will know pretty much everyone. I may not talk to everyone all the time, but I socialize and interact with them. It's the same in a 10man. I know everyone, don't socialize with all of them all the time, but I know them.

25mans are just one giant dysfunctional family.


Because 25mans have a ton of turnover and rarely will you get to raid with the same 24people today as you will a few months from now.
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90 Blood Elf Mage
11510
DPSing and tanking I prefer 25 because of "epic feeling" or whatever you want to say. But healing a 25 produces the exact opposite feeling - I'm just one smarthealing guy among a half-dozen others.
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90 Pandaren Priest
14930
I never understood the whole "10man is more social than 25man" - If I raid with a group for more than a few months I will know pretty much everyone. I may not talk to everyone all the time, but I socialize and interact with them. It's the same in a 10man. I know everyone, don't socialize with all of them all the time, but I know them.

25mans are just one giant dysfunctional family.


Because 25mans have a ton of turnover and rarely will you get to raid with the same 24people today as you will a few months from now.


But that doesn't mean you won't be talking to them. I still have former raid members on my RealID and chat with them regularly.

DPSing and tanking I prefer 25 because of "epic feeling" or whatever you want to say. But healing a 25 produces the exact opposite feeling - I'm just one smarthealing guy among a half-dozen others.


Uh. LOL
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100 Night Elf Priest
13820
I think each brings a different sort of excitement.

Strictly speaking as a healer, I feel more directly engaged/involved at the 10M level. This may be partly because I've healed so long at the 25M level that I don't need to think nearly as much thanks to muscle memory and ingrained habits. Mostly, I think it's because I'm using my toolkit in different ways and my attention shifts more rapidly from player to player.

In that way, I understand and sympathize with Mahourai and Gamex. I certainly work to maximize what I'm doing in my raids, but too often it just comes down to putting out as much AE healing as possible.

I love the feeling of being part of a larger group getting things down, though. There are certainly encounters where player reliance is more important at the 10M level, but there are plenty where it matters equally much in 25M—and getting 25 people to do the right thing at the right time is going to be rougher, especially with the turn over you see so often.

Ultimately, I get the adrenaline rush as a tough progression boss nears its end either way, but I don't feel nearly as crucial/directly involved at the 25M level—barring epic moments like lifegripping someone flying off the edge or a clutch Void Shift save on a tank sitting at 1% health.
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90 Goblin Priest
12010
25 man healing unfortunately often devolves into nothing but AoE and smart heal spam
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90 Pandaren Priest
14930
25 man healing unfortunately often devolves into nothing but AoE and smart heal spam


Yeah, that's all I do. I spam my smart heals that are on CDs and stuff. Just that.
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90 Troll Druid
12455
I much prefer 25m healing. I find it to be more engaging than 10m -- more people to watch and a lot more going on. My guild has the tendency to overheal fights, but I can't complain.
Edited by Catakins on 9/28/2013 3:34 PM PDT
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100 Night Elf Priest
13820
09/28/2013 03:24 PMPosted by Tiriel
25 man healing unfortunately often devolves into nothing but AoE and smart heal spam


Yeah, that's all I do. I spam my smart heals that are on CDs and stuff. Just that.


We get it. :/ Your experience is different. You feel engaged. You prefer 25M healing. You've mocked or been sarcastic with at least three people who have explained why they feel less engaged at the 25M level. It's not conducive to a good discussion.
Edited by Elethia on 9/28/2013 4:04 PM PDT
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90 Pandaren Priest
14930
09/28/2013 03:43 PMPosted by Elethia


Yeah, that's all I do. I spam my smart heals that are on CDs and stuff. Just that.


We get it. :/ Your experience is different. You feel engaged. You prefer 25M healing. You've mocked or been sarcastic with at least three people who have explained why they feel less engaged at the 25M level. It's not conducive to a good discussion.


Because it's not at all mocking or derogatory when people characterize 25 man healing as "just spam all your smart heals" or "I don't have to think," etc.
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90 Tauren Priest
0
Because it's not at all mocking or derogatory when people characterize 25 man healing as "just spam all your smart heals" or "I don't have to think," etc.


You ignored half the quote. He said "AoE heals and smart heals". How often do you cast flash heal/greater heal as a Holy Priest in your raids? I doubt you ever even have to cast single target heals on anyone but the tank.

It's a lot simpler to get away with being horrible at healing in 25m because the decisions you make are much less important. You don't even get to decide when to use a major CD...it's always announced for you. So boring. :(
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90 Pandaren Priest
14930
09/28/2013 05:41 PMPosted by Qùess
Because it's not at all mocking or derogatory when people characterize 25 man healing as "just spam all your smart heals" or "I don't have to think," etc.


You ignored half the quote. He said "AoE heals and smart heals". How often do you cast flash heal/greater heal as a Holy Priest in your raids? I doubt you ever even have to cast single target heals on anyone but the tank.

It's a lot simpler to get away with being horrible at healing in 25m because the decisions you make are much less important. You don't even get to decide when to use a major CD...it's always announced for you. So boring. :(


Actually, I run FDCL. I use Flash Heal all the freaking time. I need to because of my 2pc, and because not using them is a waste. Now whether or not I use PoH or Gheal to follow it entirely depends on the situation and whether the tank is spiking. I absolutely have used Gheal on a tank that was spiking. PoH as a follow up is going to be the best choice in most situations, but not in all of them.

I also use DH when I think it's necessary if there's a sudden spike in raid damage. Now, that doesn't mean that Gallien or Vuulu (Resto Druids) don't jump in with a Tranq before I can, or that our Shaman doesn't Ninja-drop his HTT, too, but I don't always have a CD rotation. It honestly depends on the encounter.

And trust me - you may think you can get away with being a piss-poor healer in a 25 man because "you don't have to think," but your co-healers going to notice if they have two neurons between them. We watch what the other people are doing, and we notice when someone is just randomly using CDs and otherwise meter fapping instead of doing their jobs.
Edited by Tiriel on 9/28/2013 5:52 PM PDT
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100 Blood Elf Priest
15700
09/28/2013 05:41 PMPosted by Qùess
It's a lot simpler to get away with being horrible at healing in 25m because the decisions you make are much less important.


only if you overheal content.

25m heroics and 5 healing it or less is usually a different story.
Edited by Kitchenslave on 9/28/2013 5:52 PM PDT
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90 Pandaren Priest
7670
It's a lot simpler to get away with being horrible at healing in 25m because the decisions you make are much less important. You don't even get to decide when to use a major CD...it's always announced for you. So boring. :(


I don't know about this. 10-man healers use as much of their AoE and smart heals as their 25-man counterparts. The only difference is that one may have to occasionally toss out a single target heal in the 10-man.

Still, there's nothing inherently more difficult about it. I mean, you only have 10 health bars to look at, and this makes spot healing far easier as you have a lot less information to process.
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90 Undead Monk
13535
Man this thread is about as good as the 10 vs 25 man threads that always happen in the Dungeons and Raids forums.
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90 Blood Elf Mage
11510
09/28/2013 03:43 PMPosted by Elethia


Yeah, that's all I do. I spam my smart heals that are on CDs and stuff. Just that.


We get it. :/ Your experience is different. You feel engaged. You prefer 25M healing. You've mocked or been sarcastic with at least three people who have explained why they feel less engaged at the 25M level. It's not conducive to a good discussion.


This.

Because it's not at all mocking or derogatory when people characterize 25 man healing as "just spam all your smart heals" or "I don't have to think," etc.


You're right, it isn't. It's how I feel when I heal a 25. It doesn't matter that DPSing qualitatively has the same issues of blending into the crowd - it just doesn't FEEL the same. That's my experience with it. Sorry if you felt it was "mocking" or "derogatory" to state that. I enjoy 25 raiding although the last time I did it with any seriousness was the very beginning of T11.
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
5930
I agree with you man, i don't like raiding in 25 man and i'm gonna tell you why:

1st: It's easier for me to heal since it is like a 100% raid healing and you don't even need to care about single target heals (except for the tanks) because all the other healers are also doing raid healing.

2nd: My machine isn't good enough for 25 man if i want to play it with good graphics (which is what i like), i can easily change them to low and play 25 mans at 50-60 fps but it's just not what i want to see.

3rd: Basically for me as a Paladin (i also have a healer Monk and a Healer Priest) but as a Paladin i can just spam Holy Radiance and Daybreak's passive and i will always be sure that i'll get atleast more than 4 targets.

My point is that in 10 man raids you do need to be carefull with your heals because i can't justa spam Holy Radiance in 10 man since we are not stacked the full time, or in some cases, never stacked. In 10 man raids you really need to choose your heals, single target and AoE heals because if you don't use them properly you won't heal a !@#$.

So, 10 man FTW :D
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100 Night Elf Priest
13820
Because it's not at all mocking or derogatory when people characterize 25 man healing as "just spam all your smart heals" or "I don't have to think," etc.


This is a thread about whether people prefer 10/25 man and why, based on how they feel when raiding at that level (and I know exactly how you feel regarding the matter, because you've previously, specifically stated that you love raid healing). There's a huge difference between what they're doing and what you're doing. One is directed at the topic (I prefer 10M because I feel more engaged/use more of my toolkit/think more); the other is directed at people (LOL, [insert mockery/sarcasm here]).

You're taking what people have said entirely out of the original context, or you're purposely misquoting/misreading them to suit your needs.

You've twisted two sentiments:

A. 25M raids are AE/smart heal heavy. Consequentially, people feel:
  • Less focused at the individual level.
  • Less crucial/less important.
  •  

      Note: Cooldowns do not constitute the whole, or even majority, of AE healing. Prayer of Healing, ground heals, Chain Heal, Wild Growth, Circle of Healing, even Prayer of Mending, all count as AE heals. At this point, the vast majority of our AE heals are also smart heals. Considering that, it's disingenuous to take the concept of AE healing and boil it down to sarcastic comments about using DH on cooldown.

      Note II: When people talk about using more of their toolkit, they're typically referring to the overall balance of their spell use. Sure, I use just about every spell in my arsenal as Holy, but the extent to which I use each spell is what matters to me.

      When people say they're using/seeing "nothing but AOE and smart heal[s]," what they're usually saying is "this is what it feels like". It's an obvious exaggeration.

      RE: Flash Heal/Greater Heal use.

      You're probably not using Flash Heal because its healing actually matters. You're using it because it fuels Serendipity.

      And ask yourself: how often do you actually use that Serendipity on Greater Heal? It's very easy to say "well, it depends on x and y". It's not wrong, but it's also an evasion. We are less likely to need to use Greater Heal at the 25M level than at the 10M level. It's a fundamental, and probably unchangeable difference.


    B. I don't have to think as much.

      This ties directly into A. Our lack of engagement essentially equates to thinking less critically. We do have to think about some things in the same way; dispel mechanics, for instance, will typically be the same at either level.

      Spot damage, however, has a very different feel. In many/most 25M encounters, there are typically so many smart heals/ground heals going out that I don't react the same way as I do on 10M/essentially-10M* encounters.

      *By essentially-10M, I mean 25M encounters where groups are spread/split in a way that mimics 10M raiding. Example: Spoils of Pandaria.
    Edited by Elethia on 9/28/2013 10:58 PM PDT
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    90 Tauren Priest
    0
    Good post, Elethia.

    And trust me - you may think you can get away with being a piss-poor healer in a 25 man because "you don't have to think," but your co-healers going to notice if they have two neurons between them. We watch what the other people are doing, and we notice when someone is just randomly using CDs and otherwise meter fapping instead of doing their jobs.


    I never said you don't have to think, that was somebody else. If you want my opinion, you have to think plenty, it's just not critical thinking.
    Edited by Qùess on 9/28/2013 10:42 PM PDT
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