Crit for holy?

90 Goblin Priest
5720
Sup team, I've been rocking some crit gems and testing it out, mostly because I'm healing alongside a druid. Seeing some up and down results, but I'm also seeing echo of light work pretty much just as well as it did with high mastery, you know, because a crit heal = higher eol, etc. Am I barking up the wrong tree with this or what? I'll see if I can pull some logs if need be, but just take it at face value.
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90 Human Priest
16220
The issue with crit as holy is that we really gain nothing but random bigger heals for it. We don't have DA or Resurgence or anything nice like that. Yes, it makes your EoL bigger too, but it's a random bigger EoL at a random time on a (in the case of AoE) random target.

As healers, we typically like reliability and consistency. EoL is a straight up free increase to your healing all the time, and at decent gear levels it really shows. For example, on our Malkorok kill last week in which I pulled 183k HPS, a whopping 24% of that was EoL. Only 1% lower than PoH.

Crit can work, of course, and if you find yourself getting better results with it then by all means stick with it. I just don't think it's a very good playstyle for Holy which gains nothing from the crits and already has very high burst.
Edited by Illucia on 9/25/2013 2:15 AM PDT
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90 Pandaren Monk
15705
That point of 'crit is rng' doesn't really work anymore.

When you have close to 50% crit. That's not really so much rng anymore.

but yea like llucia, holy doesn't really get anything out of crit. So mastery is just straight up better.
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90 Troll Priest
7090
It really depends on your playstyle. Some 10m holy priests who are very heavy renew users get a lot of use out of crit. This is because crit mostly leads to high overheal on spells that are already fairly large to begin with. While EoL isn't free from this, EoL "trickles" which is helpful for high damage encounters/phases and generally makes a huge impact on the amount of healing you actually do.

Mastery directly correlates to a beneficiary result. Crit is mostly only effective when renew crits. If Renew is one of your top sources of healing, go for it. However, for most priests, this isn't true.

You're not really going to see how powerful EoL is unless you:

1) Underheal the content
2) Heroics

The mastery will make a difference then.

Check out your overheal with crit vs non-crit. I'd wager that you're seeing more overheal with crit, but I could be wrong.
Edited by Naér on 9/25/2013 5:20 AM PDT
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90 Human Priest
17730
I only go holy on 2 fights. Norushen & Malkorok. For obvious reasons. But I do it in my disc gear which is all crit. And surprisingly, I can keep up on heals, and not have mana issues.

Mastery is good, but only in massive amounts of damage where you actually need the ticks after. In most normal modes, or when you 3 heal, usually mastery ticks are just overhealing.

My co-healer(s), well at least one of them, doesn't like it when I go holy. He says peoples health goes up and down a lot more(even though I can CoH and bring people up quickly - it makes him nervous).

Mostly I am disc and do nothing but attonement, and come out #1 on heals xD
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100 Draenei Priest
6865
09/25/2013 01:47 AMPosted by Gangrene
because a crit heal = higher eol, etc. Am I barking up the wrong tree with this or what?


No, you have it just about right, just missing the "effective healing" part of the problem.

Crit is a great throughput stat for holy, it really really is.

My Overheal gets a great big buff when I gem Crit.

09/25/2013 02:09 AMPosted by Illucia
Yes, it makes your EoL bigger too, but it's a random bigger EoL at a random time on a (in the case of AoE) random target.


I think it is worse than that, it makes your EoL bigger on a player with a very specific condition, they just got smacked with a Crit Heal. I don't need to buff EoL on the guy who got the Crit, I need it on the guy who did not just get a 2x heal.
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90 Goblin Priest
5720
I totally understand how well mastery alone can perform, but I'm not going to lie, for some reason Divine Hymn seems to crit a lot more than most spells, usually ~40%. Timing a lvl 90 talent with the cloak proc also is pretty nice. I'm going to experiment more with it, and probably post results. Any other feedback is appreciated, thank you all!
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90 Troll Priest
7090
Any other feedback is appreciated, thank you all!


I'm looking forward to looking at the logs, tbh! Good luck in your experiementing.

I firmly believe that mastering the priest has a lot to do with trying out different builds and play-styles. It really helps you get a feel for the inner-workings of a healy priest. Why and how do the stats interact with spell selection, and under what conditions? Yes, you can look at Adinne's healcalc but to get a feel for what those results mean, is so valuable.

Cheers!
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90 Blood Elf Priest
14910
Generally speaking, if you're using Renew so heavily in 10m that you plan your gemming and reforging around it, you should be hitting the 13,whatever hasting rating breakpoint which will eat up basically all of your stat budget.

For 25m Mastery is just ridonkydonk. I like crit more than haste, though, and reforge out of spirit into crit when possible.
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90 Human Priest
4095
Okay, I'm glad someone asked this question. I have always stacked haste to the 4721 cap, then mastery beyond that. However, in the new raids I was really struggling. My heals went tanked. Does anyone know if there's a point (ilvl) in which mastery becomes better or is it just in general? I now have one tier piece and once I get another I'm going to go back and re-try the mastery build.

I raid 10 man if that makes a difference.

I am seeing here that most everyone is saying that mastery is best but according to the write up on icy-veins by Jhazrun, crit is better for 10 man than mastery.

http://www.icy-veins.com/holy-priest-wow-pve-healing-statistics-priority-reforging

Thoughts?
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90 Pandaren Monk
15705
I mean, it makes sense, crit/mastery are basically almost equal as it is.

Crit as the added bonus of being disc's best stat. So it makes for easy spec switching.

I can also see you just basically sitting in serenity and just spamming renew in 10 man. While abusing FD;CL.
Edited by Suplift on 9/27/2013 11:57 AM PDT
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90 Human Priest
16220
I kind of disregard the crit recommendation on Icyveins for 10m because I've found that there's really only a few fights where Renew blanketing is preferable to just staying in Sanctuary, especially this tier. So far I've only done it on Siegecrafter and Immerseus.
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90 Tauren Priest
0
I kind of disregard the crit recommendation on Icyveins for 10m because I've found that there's really only a few fights where Renew blanketing is preferable to just staying in Sanctuary, especially this tier. So far I've only done it on Siegecrafter and Immerseus.


They also say to gem all your gear with Spirit/hybrid spirit gems. Ewww.
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90 Goblin Priest
5720
Maybe I'm doing it wrong, but there's usually _way_ too much raid damage for me to spam renew and single target heals in 10man. I'm not rolling renew and relying on crit, I'm thinking crit is more beneficial to mastery than our actual mastery rating is, if that makes sense. If I stack 10% more mastery, it doesn't echo anywhere near as much as a crit heal does. Still experimenting though!
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90 Troll Priest
7090
Here's some theory crafters bantering about the AMR spreadsheet, which interestingly, reccormends crit over mastery iirc.

http://www.plusheal.com/forum/m/1833799/viewthread/2478470-priest-comparison-mastery-vs-crit/page/3

That might give some insight into why Mastery is recommended though other sources say crit. It's from March 2012, but it still has some interesting points.
Edited by Naér on 9/27/2013 2:51 PM PDT
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100 Blood Elf Priest
9230
Besides the theoretical throughput gains, there are practical reasons to go crit as holy as well. The one that comes immidiately to mind is immersius, in which you very much need single target burst healing. Mastery does little here as the adds are generally not up long enough to allow the hot to tick for a significant amount of time.
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90 Human Priest
4095
I do use renew quite a bit, especially for minor damage situations. I don't use greater heal or even heal too often. I mostly use sanctuary, POH and my halo because I mostly do raid heals. I always keep renew on both tanks and POM up as well but for raid healing.

In the past when I stacked mastery I was mostly doing tank heals and I did like the fact that I could very easily predict about what my heals would be so I knew when to cast and be more mana efficient.
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90 Pandaren Priest
8345
Besides the theoretical throughput gains, there are practical reasons to go crit as holy as well. The one that comes immidiately to mind is immersius, in which you very much need single target burst healing. Mastery does little here as the adds are generally not up long enough to allow the hot to tick for a significant amount of time.


or you just use halo and instantly put a massive slow on every ooze within 30 yards which gives you plenty of time to flash heal

i personally did not do well with crit as holy
Edited by Truelite on 9/28/2013 12:25 PM PDT
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90 Goblin Priest
5720
I'd like to post some definitive information on it, but I don't think I have enough in my crit stat yet. Honestly, if anything I see my numbers going _slightly_ up? It's not really a big difference. I'm going to push into more crit as gear allows and hopefully put something up to compare.
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90 Goblin Priest
5720
Sorry guys. I don't think I'll be able to actually settle this for quite a while. I've gone back to mastery, I just don't think I can stack enough crit for it to be as effective as I was hoping. Long story short; I think with 40+%, it's worth dropping haste and mastery for it. Unless you're getting more than that, mastery is just too strong.
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