State of LFR (not a remove it QQ)

100 Blood Elf Paladin
10160
But honestly, I think those kinds of players would just switch to Flex IMO. I have no idea who these people are who insist that they can only do LFR and LFR only when Flex takes even less time and you can leave at any time due to the Flexible scaling if your raid took more than 10 players, which they usually do in case that happens.


Many people can't dedicate themselves to a specific raiding schedule. That's all.
100 Blood Elf Paladin
10160
09/27/2013 01:47 PMPosted by Blackgoddess
Or maybe LFR isn't as popular as people think.


We'll never truly know. :)
90 Worgen Druid
11830
As a progressive raider here is what has happened for me.

I will NEVER AGAIN GO INTO LFR!!!

The people I have gone into LFR with previous to this, have no idea what they are doing. Half the time I have to go into LFR and explain the fight for tanks, healers, and DPS.

Also LFR is not HARD. What irks me the most is people think that they can stand there do some damage, or sit there, and think... just because I was here I deserve something.

What drove me up the wall was LFR Lei Shen. Really... Really... come' on I remember when that came out I needed 11 stacks of determination to kill the guy.

Its not players are bad (well some are), no its just people dont care and assume they do something they deserve a little piece of !@#$ gear! Which is not the case AT ALL.

LFR should be intended to see mechanics not a sense of entitlement for gear. I really dont think that it should even drop gear at all. That way you dont have your douchebags that sit there and AFK.

With the bringing in of Flex, it is a MASSIVE STEP IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION. Choosing your team mates, creating a semi-hard difficulty to get a grasp for progression, as well as comparable gear for raiding.

Overall LFR was a bad idea to begin with, but Flex is a step in the right direction.
90 Troll Priest
10195
09/27/2013 12:38 PMPosted by Lightworker
LFR is simply not worth it. If I want to spend hours attempting to down a boss, I would rather have it be for progression, and for loot that would actually help me in progression. LFR is insanely easy, and yet you have imbeciles galore who wipe you do to hold-your-hand easy mechanics. I'd rather wipe 20 times on a boss that's challenging in a group of competent people that aren't idiots than wipe 3 times on a completely dumb downed boss with a group of morons who are wiping because they are attacking the boss at the wrong time, standing in bad, or failing to kite the boss around the room the correct way.


Just keep in mind that many of us aren't like you (geared raider).

If you have the time and patience, raiding (organized scheduled raiding) is the way to go.


With oQueue, it's actually faster to do flex than lfr (unless you're a healer, in which case its about the same time). I've looked for raids with oQueue at all hours, and there's never been fewer then 10 flex raids ready to go and looking for people. All you do is hit wait list on whichever group you want to go in, wait to be accepted, and you're off. Anytime, for any length of time; no one cares if you leave early, they can just go back into the queue. Contrast that with the hour wait a dps has.

Admittedly, if you're extremely undergeared you're going to be waiting longer but you're ilvl (526) will get you into 90 percent of groups, and as long as you look for the ones that require 515 or higher (right next to the group name), progression is near guaranteed. Worst flex group I had still got through half the wing.

As far as lfr, well that's what people get for setting no standards. Everytime someone posts about low dps or terrible play in lfr, everyone cries elitist and "it's just lfr". What did people think was going to happen? You've made your bed, now lie in it.
Edited by Jastaan on 9/27/2013 2:04 PM PDT
90 Blood Elf Paladin
9785
Many people can't dedicate themselves to a specific raiding schedule. That's all.

Flex requires no such thing. Download Oqueue, win at Flex, on your own time. Hell, it's generally faster than LFR, uses the same loot system, and you have control over which terribads get kicked out. So long as you are over 10 people, finding a replacement may not even be needed.
100 Blood Elf Paladin
10160
With oQueue, it's actually faster to do flex than lfr (unless you're a healer, in which case its about the same time). I've looked for raids with oQueue at all hours, and there's never been fewer then 10 flex raids ready to go and looking for people. All you do is hit wait list on whichever group you want to go in, wait to be accepted, and you're off. Contrast that with the hour wait a dps has.

Admittedly, if you're extremely undergeared you're going to be waiting longer but you're ilvl will get you into 90 percent of groups, and as long as you look for the ones that require 515 or higher (right next to the group name), progression is near guaranteed. Worst flex group I had still got through half the wing.

As far as lfr, well that's what people get for setting no standards. Everytime someone posts about low dps or terrible play in lfr, everyone cries elitist and "it's just lfr". What did people think was going to happen? You've made your bed, now lie in it.


I will check out oQueue, it does sound interesting.

I really don't mind more of a challenge too. It's rewarding to beat something that's difficult and sometimes frustrating. I haven't felt challenged in WoW for a long time now. If I don't have to commit to a specific time/date, then I'm 100% in.
100 Blood Elf Paladin
10160
Flex requires no such thing. Download Oqueue, win at Flex, on your own time. Hell, it's generally faster than LFR, uses the same loot system, and you have control over which terribads get kicked out. So long as you are over 10 people, finding a replacement may not even be needed.


I get it now.

Thanks! :)
11 Human Paladin
4555

I will check out oQueue, it does sound interesting.

I really don't mind more of a challenge too. It's rewarding to beat something that's difficult and sometimes frustrating. I haven't felt challenged in WoW for a long time now. If I don't have to commit to a specific time/date, then I'm 100% in.


Generally speaking, flex is going to be easier (on you) than LFR.
90 Troll Priest
10195
With oQueue, it's actually faster to do flex than lfr (unless you're a healer, in which case its about the same time). I've looked for raids with oQueue at all hours, and there's never been fewer then 10 flex raids ready to go and looking for people. All you do is hit wait list on whichever group you want to go in, wait to be accepted, and you're off. Contrast that with the hour wait a dps has.

Admittedly, if you're extremely undergeared you're going to be waiting longer but you're ilvl will get you into 90 percent of groups, and as long as you look for the ones that require 515 or higher (right next to the group name), progression is near guaranteed. Worst flex group I had still got through half the wing.

As far as lfr, well that's what people get for setting no standards. Everytime someone posts about low dps or terrible play in lfr, everyone cries elitist and "it's just lfr". What did people think was going to happen? You've made your bed, now lie in it.


I will check out oQueue, it does sound interesting.

I really don't mind more of a challenge too. It's rewarding to beat something that's difficult and sometimes frustrating. I haven't felt challenged in WoW for a long time now. If I don't have to commit to a specific time/date, then I'm 100% in.


http://wow.joystiq.com/2013/09/22/oqueue-how-to-for-flex-raiding-on-demand/

That's a quick guide to setting up oqueue. Make sure to read the "How do I get rid of the stuff on my screen" part; it spammed the hell out of me when I first downloaded it.
Community Manager
You would think with all this LFR SoO complaints that Blizzard would get the message but they're still in denial...


You may have missed my second post. Or are you dismissing a lack of immediate change and specific hotfix notes as indifference?

This guy gets it. You don't make people better players by smoothing to road for them. You do it by handing them a shovel and saying "here's the tools, fix it yourself".


That's an unfortunately common outlook, that if you just made stuff harder for people they'd aspire to greatness. But we know that's not how it works for everyone, or how all people respond to challenges, or necessarily what everyone is even looking for in their entertainment. We're getting into social commentary territory which I'd like to avoid, but let's dismiss the notion that any of us "know what's best" for any other person, and instead accept their preferences as absolutely valid, and think and discuss about what the issues and solutions are from that viewpoint instead of focusing on how to tell other people they're enjoying their game incorrectly.
Edited by Bashiok on 9/27/2013 2:22 PM PDT
90 Blood Elf Paladin
9785
That's always a pretty common outlook, that if you just made stuff harder for people they'd aspire to greatness. But we know that's not how it works for everyone, or how all people operate, or necessarily what everyone is looking for in their entertainment. We're getting into social commentary territory which I'd like to avoid, but let's dismiss the notion that any of us "know what's best" for any other person, and instead accept their preferences as valid, and think and discuss about what the issues and solutions are from that viewpoint instead of focusing on how to telling other people they're enjoying the game incorrectly.

I can definitely appreciate that stance, and it's not as if I am saying that LFR needs to be tuned upward, at all. What I am suggesting (and your earlier post appears to agree with) is that we need to give it some time and see how people adapt, learn, etc. The calls for "zomg nerf it nao!" in the first week of release are what worry me. Instead of stepping up to even the most moderate of challenges, it seems that most LFR first reactions that we see on the forums are screams for nerfs.

It's almost getting to the point where people expect to walk into any new LFR and one shot everything the first time. If stuff were tuned around that mentality, it would be worrisome to say the least. You guys obviously wanted there to be at least some challenge to it, otherwise LFR would just be tuned as a 25 man aoe zergfest, akin to the state of current non-challenge mode heroics.
Edited by Aleksándr on 9/27/2013 2:26 PM PDT
90 Troll Priest
12105

This guy gets it. You don't make people better players by smoothing to road for them. You do it by handing them a shovel and saying "here's the tools, fix it yourself".


There are these strange people out there in the world. They have this weird idea in their head that a hobby they do in their spare time should be relaxing, rather than stressful. And these strange, weird people have a habit of laughing at your "rise to the challenge" ideal and merely seek out a different hobby, one with less stress. WoW is not some job people must improve at or be fired. It is merely a game, one that is easily replaced should it stop full-filling the purpose of a past-time.

It is such a pity some forget this simple reality and feel the need to inflict hardship on their fellow players.
100 Goblin Warlock
13455
I just want to say that Flex is awesome. My guild raids normals at the moment and will progress to Heroics soon. I've been plaing with the core of the guild since BC days. Since around Cata start, I havent really had time to properly commit to raiding due to starting a family (2 young boys). LFR was ok, but I didnt play with my mates from the guild and it felt like too much of a pushover. Now, Friday nights are Flex night and we take about 12-16 people and clear flex. I feel like I can enjoy raiding again with Flex :)
100 Blood Elf Priest
20025
[quote]
Generally speaking, flex is going to be easier (on you) than LFR.


And this is not due to the difficulty of the bosses, this is due to playing with people who pay attention to basic mechanics.
100 Troll Hunter
15740
09/27/2013 01:57 PMPosted by Lightworker
But honestly, I think those kinds of players would just switch to Flex IMO. I have no idea who these people are who insist that they can only do LFR and LFR only when Flex takes even less time and you can leave at any time due to the Flexible scaling if your raid took more than 10 players, which they usually do in case that happens.


Many people can't dedicate themselves to a specific raiding schedule. That's all.


Our very casual semi-hardcore guild clears flex in a matter of hours with primarily low geared alts and social/non-raider rank players with a few scattered mains in between in a matter of hours on a Saturday afternoon or evening.

It does not require a huge time commitment, nor does actual raiding at this point in the game for that matter.
90 Troll Priest
12105

It does not require a huge time commitment, nor does actual raiding at this point in the game for that matter.


For you. Your experience can vary from other people's experience. Lets not forget that.
90 Blood Elf Paladin
9785
It is such a pity some forget this simple reality and feel the need to inflict hardship on their fellow players.

So, basically, you feel that all content in this game should be tuned to be the same difficulty as say, completing Golden Lotus dailies? Anything beyond that is clearly so stressful that no gamer outside of the most hardcore in the game should even bother.

If someone is getting that stressed out by a game, perhaps it's time to them to get up, go for a walk, play with a pet, spend some time with their kids, or whatever.
Edited by Aleksándr on 9/27/2013 2:33 PM PDT
90 Goblin Death Knight
15310

It does not require a huge time commitment, nor does actual raiding at this point in the game for that matter.


For you. Your experience can vary from other people's experience. Lets not forget that.


Absolutely, and if their experience differs, they can have an easier raid. I don't see why they need gear for it, though.

That I can get gear for LFR is probably one of the funniest things that has ever happened in an MMO, at least to me.
90 Night Elf Monk
15315
Let me put it this way I am not even motivated enough to que lfr by the bags because the total gold in the bags is less then I will pay in repairs at the moment since its to hard to stop dps during a phase on nazgrim.
90 Troll Priest
12105
09/27/2013 02:32 PMPosted by Aleksándr
It is such a pity some forget this simple reality and feel the need to inflict hardship on their fellow players.

So, basically, you feel that all content in this game should basically be tuned to be the same difficulty as say, completing Golden Lotus dailies? Anything beyond that is clearly so stressful that no gamer outside of the most hardcore in the game should even bother.

If someone is getting that stressed out by a game, perhaps it's time to them to get up, go for a walk, play with a pet, spend some time with their kids, or whatever.


Why are you putting words in my mouth? I do not recall mentioning any specific difficulty or demanding anything gets nerfed to daily quest level. I merely stated a few people do not subscribe to your "get better or tough" mindset.

People should have goals to each, hills to climb, and all that. But, there is a difference between that and these 3+ hour LFRs with 3-6 determination stacks per boss experience many LFR groups have hit since 5.4. That is not fun. That is not a relaxing past-time. That is not something they, themselves can fix (unless they are the 30k dps). That is merely a stressful experience that will get old fast for some in the LFR crowd.
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