ShadowBurn: A Warlock's Grimoire (OutDated)

(Locked)

05/22/2012 12:22 PMPosted by Dacavis
Part of this has to due the level of detail you go into.


This is mainly the reason for the different rotations. Both of us are basing our rotations off of Simulationcraft simming (though im giving general info and they include the T13 bonus) and i just listed other things i thought important. Doomguard for instance is VERY important and i dont want anyone forgetting it.

The source we both use for 99% of what our guides say:

http://www.simulationcraft.org/433/Warlock.html

Go to affliction and check action priority list.

05/22/2012 12:22 PMPosted by Dacavis
But what would you say about the differences in specs? Are one of you out of date? Is the lock class able to have that much variation between talent choices?


There is a bit of flexibility in our specs. This is why i go over mandatory talents and optional talents.

My spec includes CoE which is nice for leveling, heroic 5mans, pvp and if you are like me and end up in groups where no one is brave enough to kite an add (Think of the adds in the last boss of BRC) or has a slow when one is needed (riplimb from Shannox).

In theirs they include 2/2 drain life which makes it where you healers wont have to heal thru Lifetap as much and makes you less likely to die from incidental aoe.

Which is better depends on the needs of your raid and your playstyle. Back when i posted the spec we might have been expected to kite some and i felt for your new 85 lock CoEx was a better choice. But this tier there is few places id use it (maybe on Sappers on Blackhorn).

The BIG Difference in our specs comes down to SB:SoC vs Pandemic. Pandemic is a WEAK WEAK WEAK single target dps increase. SB:SoC is a POWERFUL AoE ability for a spec that is not that great at aoe. I feel that SB:SoC is better (think of all the adds Yor for example) but if you want MAX single target Pandemic is the talent to get.

Ultimately the difference between our specs is utility. They are going for maximum single target dps and survival, while my spec trades SMALL amounts of damage for more AoE and a fun utility spell.

None of this will affect your rotation though.

05/22/2012 12:22 PMPosted by Dacavis
Bane of Agony is also left out in EJ, is that worth using on mobs that are going to die quickly anyways? Especially when the spell info says it has to build up speed over time?

Bane of doom should only be used in situations where you know the mob will live longer than 15seconds and which you dont plan to use soul swap on.

Bane of doom takes 15 seconds to tick and for all intents and purposes can not gain extra ticks. Bane of agony ticks every 2 seconds or less and is the easiest spell to get extra ticks through haste. Bane of doom is more single target dps (can only be on one target).

Because of this if the targets lives less than 15 seconds you wont get any damage from BoD meaning its a 0 dps spell (actually its negative as you waste a GCD on it). Agony though can tick 7 times or more in that time making it a MUCH better spell to use in that situation.

Also, since Doom can only be used on one target at a time soulswapping a target with doom is a dps loss (soulswap saves you at most 1-2gcds) and you LOSE that gcd having to manually apply agony to the target you SS off of.

This is why Agony, despite the ramp up time, should mainly be used on trash and doom on bosses.
Edited by Vaydra on 5/24/2012 9:44 PM PDT
90 Undead Warlock
1up
5570
Hey, thanks for the response, I know I put a lot up to be questioned. Not sure how my tone may have come across, but I hope it didn't sound critical. While I can 'wing it' when playing combat on my rogue, or SV on my hunter, and just put all the pieces together myself, this lock just falls apart unless I try to find other sources like these guides. So when there are differences in info like I presented in my post (along with EJ's forums not being as newb friendly), I just gotta ask cuz... well I don't want my DPS to suck, haha.

05/24/2012 09:43 PMPosted by Vaydra
This is why Agony, despite the ramp up time, should mainly be used on trash and doom on bosses.


Makes sense.

There is a bit of flexibility in our specs. This is why i go over mandatory talents and optional talents.


Gotcha. I'll go back and reread those sometime. The EJ spec actually does include SB: SoC, but your explanation still makes sense as far as the whole 'pure DPS vs utility'.

If I could use a bit more of your time, could you explain why one spec favors drain life over shadow bolt? Is shadow bolt just being used for its buff, and DL as a filler?
05/25/2012 06:41 PMPosted by Dacavis
Hey, thanks for the response, I know I put a lot up to be questioned. Not sure how my tone may have come across, but I hope it didn't sound critical. While I can 'wing it' when playing combat on my rogue, or SV on my hunter, and just put all the pieces together myself, this lock just falls apart unless I try to find other sources like these guides. So when there are differences in info like I presented in my post (along with EJ's forums not being as newb friendly), I just gotta ask cuz... well I don't want my DPS to suck, haha.


Haha no problem. You sounded fine and i know exactly what you meant.

Back in TBC i sucked horribly and it was on the old forums and reading a guide that helped me. Thus why i wanted to make a guide myself when that author "retired" from wow.

And yeah the EJ forums can be noob unfriendly. Yet another reason i made a guide rather than simply telling people to go read EJ...though their guides are ALOT more organized than mine -_-

Unfortunately organization is not my strong point =P

05/25/2012 06:41 PMPosted by Dacavis
If I could use a bit more of your time, could you explain why one spec favors drain life over shadow bolt? Is shadow bolt just being used for its buff, and DL as a filler?


You got it exactly =)

BUT NOTE that the drain life spec is NOT viable any longer. It was viable at the start of the expansion (though SB beat it slightly) and was projected to scale better than SB. But the blues long ago stated that they DID NOT want DL to be a filler (thus why i have always favored SB) and when it started to outscale SB (and people complained the T12 bonus did not include something for the DL spec) blizzard nerfed it hard.

There are still people who LOVE DL affliction and use it and i keep it up for them, but really the spec is dead. I probably should add in a priviso about that... >.>

I hope this answers your questions and if not dont be afriad to ask. Ill do my best to explain or find answers to questions.
Edited by Vaydra on 5/25/2012 10:27 PM PDT
1 Human Paladin
0
Any insight why mist is buffing the insanely op destruction pvp thats already going on?
05/27/2012 03:38 PMPosted by Happieboy
Any insight why mist is buffing the insanely op destruction pvp thats already going on?


Other than seeing the new demon forms i have not even looked at our new talents or abilities nor do i plan too till about a week before the MoP patch hits.
85 Undead Warlock
4425
One question about macros.
I want a macro to cast Fear on my target but if i hold "shift" for example, i'll cast fear in the focus instead. There's any way to do that?
If yes, i'll appreciate if anyone could help me how to write it.
Edited by Morbyron on 7/12/2012 7:36 AM PDT
One question about macros.
I want a macro to cast Fear on my target but if i hold "shift" for example, i'll cast fear in the focus instead. There's any way to do that?
If yes, i'll appreciate if anyone could help me how to write it.


/cast [@focus, mod:shift] Fear; Fear

Try that!
85 Undead Warlock
4425
Worked perfectly! Thanks man, you rock !
100 Troll Warlock
9250
During decimate do I keep my dots up or just decimate.
07/14/2012 03:59 AMPosted by Frijolefrito
During decimate do I keep my dots up or just decimate.


Keep your dots up.

This is the latest priority list for BiS gear from most important to least:

0 flask,type=draconic_mind
1 food,type=seafood_magnifique_feast
2 fel_armor
3 summon_felguard,if=!in_combat
4 dark_intent
5 snapshot_stats
6 blood_fury
7 volcanic_potion,if=buff.metamorphosis.up|!in_combat
8 metamorphosis
9 demon_soul
A bane_of_doom,if=!ticking&time<10
B summon_doomguard,if=time>10
C felguard:felstorm
D soulburn,if=pet.felguard.active&!pet.felguard.dot.felstorm.ticking
E summon_felhunter,if=!pet.felguard.dot.felstorm.ticking&pet.felguard.active
F soulburn,if=pet.felhunter.active
G soul_fire,if=pet.felhunter.active&buff.soulburn.up
H immolate,if=!ticking&target.time_to_die>=4&miss_react
I bane_of_doom,if=(!ticking|(buff.metamorphosis.up&remains<45))&target.time_to_die>=15&miss_react
J corruption,if=(remains<tick_time|!ticking)&target.time_to_die>=6&miss_react
K shadowflame
L hand_of_guldan
M immolation_aura,if=buff.metamorphosis.remains>10
N incinerate,if=buff.molten_core.react
O soul_fire,if=buff.decimation.up
P life_tap,if=mana_pct<=30&buff.bloodlust.down&buff.metamorphosis.down&buff.demon_soul_felguard.down
Q incinerate
R life_tap,moving=1,if=mana_pct<80&mana_pct<target.health_pct
S fel_flame,moving=1
T life_tap,if=mana_pct_nonproc<100


As you can see all our dots are of higher priority than decimation. This is of course the rotation for the incinerate glyph build, Shadowbolt will replace incinerate as a filler if you are not using that build (which is a dps increase only in single target situations where there is 0 movement).
Ty for that question. It made me realize i forgot to mention the incinerate spec!
11 Troll Warlock
45
Interesting, now I feel more inspired to level my warlock.
85 Human Warlock
8210
The BIG Difference in our specs comes down to SB:SoC vs Pandemic. Pandemic is a WEAK WEAK WEAK single target dps increase. SB:SoC is a POWERFUL AoE ability for a spec that is not that great at aoe. I feel that SB:SoC is better (think of all the adds Yor for example) but if you want MAX single target Pandemic is the talent to get.


Your spec isn't advisable for any warlock doing end game PvE as it does not provide the player with a spec that doesn't max their DPS. I also don't see why you're comparing SB:SoC with Pandemic 2/2 as both should be including into an affliction spec.
Edited by Amáre on 7/18/2012 3:21 AM PDT
07/18/2012 03:12 AMPosted by Amáre
Your spec isn't advisable for any warlock doing end game PvE as it does not provide the player with a spec that doesn't max their DPS. I also don't see why you're comparing SB:SoC with Pandemic 2/2 as both should be including into an affliction spec.

This guide is mainly aimed at new warlocks. Also double negative you just said i provided them with a spec that maximizes their dps thanks =P

Seriously though, i know what your trying to say and disagree.

You can only get both if you drop the point in felsynergy. Thus leaving your pets open to dying (or lots of health funneling...LOL) which will be a much bigger dps loss than that point in Pandemic will ever be.

More often than not 1 point in pandemic will reset your stacks meaning the dps gain of pandemic is very very low. But if you have healers who never ever ever let your pets die then feel free to move that point to pandemic.

As i said in the affliction section:

Affliction warlocks optional talents for PVE:

Jinx
Siphon life
Curse of exhaustion (overwritten by Jinx)
improved fear
Improved Howl of Terror
Soul burn Seed of corruption
Demonic Embrace
Felsynergy (HIGHLY RECOMMENDED)


Key word is OPTIONAL talent. Also myOptional talents are in agreement with the EJ guide:

http://elitistjerks.com/f80/t112939-affliction_cataclysm_4_3_release/

Talents

Affliction

Tier Talent Notes Recommendation
2 Jinx CoE now effects nearby targets, and CoW effects enemy resource generation Optional
2 Siphon Life Chance to heal yourself when Corruption ticks Optional
3 Curse of Exhaustion Slows the target Optional
3 Improved Fear Target is slowed when fear ends Optional
4 Improved Howl of Terror Reduces the cast time on Howl of Terror Optional
5 Soulburn: Seed of Corruption Additional Soulburn effect - Spreads Corruption to nearby targets when Seed of Corruption detonates Optional

Demonology

Tier Talent Notes Recommendation
1 Demonic Embrace Additional stamina Optional
1 Fel Synergy Passively heals demon Optional


Same optional talents.

http://elitistjerks.com/f80/t37900-dots_you_affliction_warlock_thread/

Old guide made the same recommendation but at the time they thought Pandemic>Nightfall which was later proven wrong.

ANOTHER old ej thread:

http://elitistjerks.com/f80/t106168-4_0_pre_cataclysm_raiding/

Of course this was level 80 and fel syn could not be reached at that time.

Furthermore i said

Nightfall and Pandemic are both very low dps talents. If you would like to have soulburn SoC in your spec it is a good idea to take the point away from one of them. Currently 2/2 nightfall is simming higher than 2/2pandemic. Similarly you can opt to not have SB:SoC.


Which is in agreement with:

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/837892-Affliction-A-Guide-%284-2%29

If you're having problems with pet dying a lot on bosses, move one point from Pandemic to Fel Synergy, although this shouldn't be a problem.


And the simulationcraft thread:

http://elitistjerks.com/f80/t110222-simulationcraft_warlocks_cataclysm_edition/

2. Since i really really want to spec SB:SoC i wondered where to take that point from. Results were:
25144 33.4% Warlock_AffDrain_T11_372_GoC
25130 33.3% Warlock_AffDrain_T11_372_1/2Pandemic
25106 33.3% Warlock_AffDrain_T11_372_1/2Nightfall

25026 33.4% Warlock_Affliction_T11_372_GoC
25007 33.3% Warlock_Affliction_T11_372_1/2Pandemic
24977 33.3% Warlock_Affliction_T11_372_1/2Nightfall

So taking that point out of Pandemic seem to be the better choice for both specs.


There are many progression minded locks who prefer to raid with Fel synergy and the best place to take that from is either SB:SoC or Pandemic. Though i thought i was clear in what i meant by optional talents and such.

Let me link one:
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/deathwing/Darkzyrklord/talent/primary

He wrote:
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/3710773960?page=1

And

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/4427663825

Or someone from Dream Paragon:

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/lightnings-blade/Diivil/simple

As you can see there ARE end game raiders who take 1/2 Pandemic for 1 point in fel synergy.

That said thank you for trying to bring a potential issue with the thread to my attention. But as you can see its not really an issue and depends more on whether your healers let your pets die or not.

I'll add a disclaimer about healers though!
Edited by Vaydra on 7/18/2012 9:56 AM PDT
85 Human Warlock
8210
There is currently no need for Curse of Exhaustion in the current teir of raiding.

~Disclaimer~ I am not here to "attack" or "slander" you as a player I am here because some warlocks may look at the posters spec and copy instead of looking at the guide. Thus why I have pointed out "Curse of Exhaustion" in affliction and 2/2 Pandemic and Fel Synergy (which should be used if your pets are dying in a raid [mine aren't unless on Heroic:Madness in which it gets hit for 250k+ HP and would die with Fel Synergy anyways].
07/18/2012 04:23 PMPosted by Amáre
There is currently no need for Curse of Exhaustion in the current teir of raiding.


Found it nice on snappers for my pallies raid group. But yeah from the post you quoted I said there was little use for it in DS.

Which is better depends on the needs of your raid and your playstyle. Back when i posted the spec we might have been expected to kite some and i felt for your new 85 lock CoEx was a better choice. But this tier there is few places id use it (maybe on Sappers on Blackhorn).


That said I sacrificed another optional talent to get it. No actual dps increasing talents were lost to get it. So i dont feel its a big deal and it was nice back when this guide was originally posted (we had to kite a puppy and occasionally adds in BRC for example or the hob goblin mobs in DMs, or magmaw adds, helping slow down a puppy in FLs if you couldnt get someone with a better snare to do it, or spiders on beth) and it can be fun for new players messing around in BGs and for practice in case their raid ever does need them to kite a mob.

07/18/2012 04:23 PMPosted by Amáre
~Disclaimer~ I am not here to "attack" or "slander" you as a player I am here because some warlocks may look at the posters spec and copy instead of looking at the guide. Thus why I have pointed out "Curse of Exhaustion" in affliction and 2/2 Pandemic and Fel Synergy (which should be used if your pets are dying in a raid [mine aren't unless on Heroic:Madness in which it gets hit for 250k+ HP and would die with Fel Synergy anyways].


I understand that and appreciate that. Tone of voice does not translate over written/typed text so i repeatedly edited my post so that my tongue and cheek nature would not come off as sarcasm or confrontational.

If I come off that way i SINCERELY apologize. If you really feel that having CoEx is somehow detrimental I can add another disclaimer on how its not much use in DS.

And thank you once again for posting =)
07/19/2012 09:18 PMPosted by Malvagnon
How the heck would you swap your WASDEQ movement to your mouse? How would you move your cursor then? Wtf? This has zero bearing on your PVE dps rofl.


On the menu (esc) go to keybinds. You can now set those keys to other things. Movement is already set to your mouse. Just hold down both your left and right buttons and steer with the mouse.

You wont need to move your mouse as you have all your abilities keybound. Though if your insistent in the options menu there is a click to move option.

And yes it does impact your pve dps. Moving and reacting faster means that you will move out of the bad stuff sooner get in spot faster and get additional spells cast.

Further since you arent clicking your abilities there wont be a delay between casts as you move your cursor from one ability to the next. Once again more spells cast and more dps.
100 Human Priest
8155
I have developed a new levelling guide to help with MoP:

us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/6232904004
Adding to links!

But i dont plan to upgrade this guide for MoP due to the dislike my guide gets and me planning to retire shortly after MoP launch so i dont know how much help it may be.
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