LFR Hero needs advice jumping to Norm

90 Gnome Priest
5820
In the past I have always been a LFR hero or middle of the pack dps looking for a guild willing to help me learn to take the next step. Now I have found a guild with a small core that is trying to get a solid 10 man team going. I have no issues with healing LFR but my concern is that LFR is just LFR and I might get in over my head in a 10 man environment. I was hoping for some pointers from some Priest vets.

First I was wondering if it would benefit my raid if I switch specs to Disc rather than Holy. I am more comfortable with holy but I enjoy both specs so it is not a matter of preference. At this time I am the only healer we have with a Paladin main tank. Will Disc make such a difference that it would be the overwhelming favorite to push the raid over the top?

Next question is how do I know I am doing well? I understand that if we don’t wipe that is a success, but when I run LFR weekly I want to be able to track where I am and how my effectiveness is progressing before we jump into 10 man. Is hps on recount the best way to track this?

Lastly I was hoping for some recommendations for a UI. I have used Elvui up till this point. It has been fine for tanking and dps but I find it “clunky” for healing.

I don’t think we will be ready to raid for at least another 2 weeks so I have time to adjust as needed. (and yes I know I don’t have all my gems or enchants. Sadly I am stuck at work but hope to have them by the end of the day). Thanks for reading and helping!
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90 Night Elf Druid
13170
LFR isn't really a good way to measure you're healing. It's not bad for learning the fights some and practicing, but the numbers on skada or recount won't be very helpful since 1-2 healers paying attention can outheal everyone else. With that said ...

If you want to practice and really put your healing to the test try getting into a flex raid, or running it with your guild once you have an almost fully established 10man group. It will allow everyone to practice and learn the new fights :D Can even try to cross realm ToT to maybe get lucky with some new gear and practice in there too.

As for disc or holy, both are fine for normals. On my priest that I raid on I am mainly disc but I do have a holy spec in case it'll be more beneficial for certain fights. If you're more comfortable with holy stick with holy, but feel free to give disc a try too :D

As for your UI, you can always use a seperate healing addon outside of Elvui to heal with. Some popular options are VuhDo (which I use), grid + clique, healbot, or mouse over macros with default raid frames. Play around with some of them and see which one you feel the most comfortable with.

Only way to get comfortable is to jump right into it :)
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100 Tauren Priest
20170
First off from what I can determine from your situation your guild may want to try flex first before trying some normals. Flex would be a good way to gauge how prepared you guys are for normals while also giving you a very good chance of giving you great gear to help you tackle the first couple of bosses. And if you find it to easy you are not saved on the normal lockout and can try the first couple of bosses on normal mode.

Secondly, for normals or flex, in ten man for most fights disc will usually be the better choice just because it brings absorbs and dps. HOWEVER, normal mode raiding is not tuned nearly as tight as heroic, and by playing holy I do not believe you would hurt your raid. You should play the spec you are more comfortable with and should only switch to disc if you truly think that your raid will not down a boss unless you do that.

I have had to do that only in heroic mode raiding. Holy should be absolutely fine for normals and flex.

As far as user interface addons, probably the top 3 your going to hear about are grid, vuhdo, and healbot. I'm not a fan of healbot, and I never played around with vuhdo much, but I know many people love vuhdo, so take a look at videos or guides of all 3 and see which one you think fits you best. I personally love grid in combination with clique and mouse over macros but every healer must find their own style.

If you want more in depth details on the specs and proper play, howtopriest.com is a good source of information, and icy veins has good information as well. Just be warned that if you decide to go gung-ho full force into one healing spec, they do gem and reforge dramatically differently so it can get costly to switch back and forth a lot.

Tldr - for your level of play enjoy what your comfortable with.

Edit- it's like Vero and I are mind readers of each other.
Edited by Rapsidy on 9/28/2013 9:35 PM PDT
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90 Gnome Priest
5820
Thank you both for your responses. I did not realize you could do a 10 man flex so I think step one is getting the guild to commit to that first. I am going to reforge/gem/enchant to Disc just to give it a shot. I leveled as disc so I hope it doesn’t take to much time to knock the dust off.

Thank you for the howtopriest.com reference. I have been living off of icy veins and it is good but H2P looks like its got even more info for me.

One last quick question if you have the time. When you use vuhdo/healbot/grid do you use the standard blizz UI? or do you have your own UI installed with those addons?

Again thank you both for the tips. I have to say that the Healing forums are probably the best I have ever experienced. Everything on here is extremely helpful or just plain fun to read (I love the thread about things you hate to hear in a pug I lol multiple times at work reading it :))
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100 Gnome Monk
15865
09/29/2013 08:45 AMPosted by Azik
I did not realize you could do a 10 man flex so I think step one is getting the guild to commit to that first.


I also recommend Flex. The cool thing about it is you can 10 man it, 12 man it, 15 or whatever you want between 10 and 25 inclusive. If you get a few extra people showing up just bring them along.
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100 Night Elf Druid
18495
Few suggestions.

1) Get more gear. 489 I wouldn't take, not even to a flex raid. Get to 510 or so.

2) Always, ALWAYS gem/enchant. ALWAYS!

3) Learn as much as you can about your class. Go google "disc priest 5.4" many sites like noxxic, icy veins etc. can help you know what stats you want, what spells to cast etc.

4) Learn the fights BEFORE going in. Youtube videos like Icy Veins & Fat Boss explain fights for you.

5) Know that Flex is fairly easy - kind of like an organized LFR, but normal/heroic is VERY different. Raiding requires 3 things..... 1) Raid Awareness(don't stand in bad), 2) Class awareness(can you play your class to the best of your ability) 3) Attendance. When you are in a raid group, you have to be committed. Show up, be on time . Be prepaired. Etc.
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90 Night Elf Druid
13170
^
Would not recommend Noxxic to any healer, ever (info tends to be wrong). Plus looking at too many various resources can have conflicting information and just confuse someone who is still learning (especially when it comes to priests). Howtopriest is the best bet :D And he already mentioned why at the time of the post he wasn't gemmed or enchanted, but it looks like he has begun to fix that. I've taken a less ilvl than that into a flex raid BUT we had other fully geared raiders and were able to easily carry several people, which you may not get lucky with if the guild you're going to raid with is still gearing up too :)

One last quick question if you have the time. When you use vuhdo/healbot/grid do you use the standard blizz UI? or do you have your own UI installed with those addons?


Vuhdo ETC is JUST raid frames. So you can hide the main blizzard ones. So you either use blizzard's full UI (minus raid frames) or your own. For example, this is my healing ui: http://i.imgur.com/ipmiz0j.jpg

Obviously you don't have to do anything that extensive. You can also pair the raid frame addon with ElvUI if you want to. Personally at least on toons (not even just healers), I like to have bartender so I can organize my action bars how I want to.

Get some of the older coins from the treasure room, you can try to get some loot from terrace LFR. Gear is ilvl 483 which isn't amazing but higher than some of your pieces. Can also buy the coins from the timeless isle for ToT (at least maybe for the horridon trinket, especially if you're able to do it on normal). There's also a shaopan valor trinket which is really nice :D I can't remember how much valor it cost though :3 I'm still using it on my priest :) It's an on use mana one.

Try to see if anyone else in your guild is interested in doing flex before you actually begin raiding. We did it in my horde guild because we still had a tank and a healer that lacked the gear to go beyond the first two bosses in normal, so we did flex. This helped us get them some nice shiny loot and it also gave us a chance to learn quite a few of the boss fights :D
Edited by Veroicone on 9/29/2013 10:29 AM PDT
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90 Troll Priest
7090
Instead of Noxxic, I highly suggest:

http://howtopriest.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=4484

This link is to a table of guides for Healing priests.
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100 Blood Elf Priest
12515
One last quick question if you have the time. When you use vuhdo/healbot/grid do you use the standard blizz UI? or do you have your own UI installed with those addons?

I use ElvUI with Grid2. If you normally use ElvUI, there's no reason to stop using it; it's great.

(By the way, I just want to plug Grid2 as another option. If you're considering Grid, consider Grid2 as well. It's more flexible - probably the most flexible raid frames addon - and doesn't require any plugins.)
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90 Troll Priest
7090
09/29/2013 11:29 AMPosted by Kaels
One last quick question if you have the time. When you use vuhdo/healbot/grid do you use the standard blizz UI? or do you have your own UI installed with those addons?


I currently use Elvui like Kaels. It has great functionality, and like Vuhdo, you can give it a spell ID and it will be able to track it. I have PW: Shield in the left upper corner, Weakened Soul in the top right corner, Renew Bottom left, and PoM bottom right. All of my debuffs come up on the frames and a color overlay happens if it's dispel-able by me.

I found it to be very intuitive.

I also use mouse-over macros rather than click to cast. Just a bit faster for me.

http://postimg.org/image/5bgxomugj/

You can see on the tank in the last group my PW S and WS debuff, and on a few members a debuff that's non-dispel-able as well.
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90 Human Priest
12900
OP: I'm really excited for you! Stepping into more-than-LFR raiding is very exciting :D

I would suggest to you that the very fact that you're willing to entertain the notion that what you do to be successful in LFRs *might* not be what's needed for more-than-LFR success is an excellent indicator that you will evolve into a great healer. The MOST important quality that indicates someone who might do well, imo, is to be someone who is always willing to examine their performance and look for & attempt to correct their weaknesses.

Expect to feel overwhelmed at first! The sheer amount of damage a raid takes in Flex & normal as compared to LFR will be... intense to experience. If the others are in similar ilvl to your gear, expect a lot of wiping, because even those who are already solid players will mess up mechanics which need to be handled properly, from which you as low-ilvl healers will often be unable to save them. That's the biggest difference between LFR and > LFR... the importance of handling fight mechanics properly.

So don't go into those fights without having checked out Youtube for guides to the fight (or at least read through the strats on icy-veins). I highly recommend the Fatboss guides (for example, search Youtube for "Fatboss 10man normal Immerseus"), though there are numbers of other people making excellent guides. I like the Fatboss ones because they're hilarious to listen to on top of the hard info they provide.

10man tactics for fights can sometimes be quite different than 25man tactics, so be sure you've got 10man *normal mode* info to help you from needless difficulty.

Flex raiding can be done with as few as 10 people and as many as 24 people. The game adjusts the difficulty of the fight according to how many people zone in. Just be sure you always have 2 tanks and *minimum* two healers (for 10man Flex, though if you're all new to raiding, 2 healers won't likely be enough. More than 2 healers will be necessary for you if you bring more than 10 players).

As for you in specific - if Holy is what you love, keep at it. *Very* occasionally, a fight will come along where one of the priest specs is just terrible for the fight on normal, but even then, so long as you reach out to online resources, you'll be able to make it through. Where Holy vs Disc begins to be of more importance is in heroic content, and specifically, in the early tier progression race (ie, guilds who are trying to be in the first 200 guilds in the world to kill a specific heroic boss).

Finally, come back (here, or howtopriest) and stay up-to-date! Blizz adjusts classes & glyphs & talents constantly, and one of the best things you can do to become a solid player is to never assume that changes don't affect you ;)

Good luck, and HAVE FUN!
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90 Night Elf Monk
8805
I love everything people have already said!!!

As you can guess, unfortunately, one of the most important things for a healer is customizing their UI. You can keep it really simple (I use the default raid frames, with some default options changed) or you can change it as much as you like -- but you need to research your options. And be open to changing your mind as you get more experience.

Whatever UI you go with, make sure you know how to make it show you the right debuffs. (Default raid frames do this automatically.) Nothing is more frustrating than pausing the raid to walk someone through their Healbot options. Consider this part of your raid homework.

The ultimate goal of your UI should be to
- show you the information you need to make good decisions
- let you act on those decisions (cast spells) as quickly as possible

Some addons I can recommend are Clique, Weak Auras, and Tidy Plates.

09/28/2013 09:12 PMPosted by Azik
Will Disc make such a difference that it would be the overwhelming favorite to push the raid over the top?


If you're really good at playing Disc, it might. But not really.

Finally some advice on your gear: Head to the Timeless Isle. You can get 496 gear there very easily, and it's not hard to get some 535 gear. The healer trinket there is absolutely worth grinding. If you want, I can give you some more specific advice once you get there.
Edited by Rainbodash on 9/29/2013 12:42 PM PDT
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90 Gnome Priest
5820
WOW! Thank you all for the fantastic advice. Sadly I am stuck at work still but I can not wait to get back home and start tinkering.

Lucky for me 4 of the members of our guild are already running SoO LFR and they are going to help me get gear on TI tonight. I built some Target of Target macros for atonement healing last night so I think Disc will be easier to play for now and it will help with our raid dps.

As of right now we have myself as a disc/holy and a shaman as a hybrid dps/healer. Are there any recommendations for whom to look for as a good compliment for the second full time healer? I have heard that Disc/Monk is a great combo as well as Disc/druid but my assumption is that it won’t matter at our stage.

Again thank you all for the advice I love the welcoming nature of the healer forum community. I am nervous but very excited to make the jump away from LFR. I look forward to coming back daily :)
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90 Human Priest
12900
More long-winded advice/info I didn't remember to include:

LFR doesn't really prepare you for how you need to use your cooldowns. Maybe you're already using yours well, but *always* be on the lookout for moments to use your full toolbox!

- Leap of Faith can be just as important as a proper healing cooldown. At the very least, it can save that rogue from dying because he's standing in the fire. Or it can save the person who's completely lagged out with a puddle of deadly poo spawning under them. At its finest, it can save the person (god help you if it's the tank & you don't snag them) who stood in the derp and is being thrown off the tower in the Galakras fight, or help a key player get from point A to point B instantaneously to deal with mechanic X (perhaps a low-health player standing very close to Thunderstruck on Lei Shen, and you're a safe distance away & can help them get farther away than they otherwise would be able to, before Thunderstruck explodes and splatters them all over the platform).

- Guardian Spirit. Plan ahead to use it for a specific mechanic your tank (or other designated, crucial player) is having trouble surviving. If there's nothing predictable, USE IT ANYWAY, on someone taking continuous, dangerous levels of damage. Even if they don't end up taking a lethal amount of damage, it's better to be safe than sorry, *and* of course GS causes the healing that person receives to be increased, meaning the healers don't have to focus on him quite as much, which means other players' health and/or fight mechanics can be handled better.

- Keep an eye on the boss timers at the edge of your screen anytime you're looking to blow Divine Hymn or Hymn of Hope. I'm sure you know how frustrating it is to need to stand and channel, only to be interrupted 2sec in by something that stuns you or requires you to move. If you keep your eyes on the timers which will interrupt your channeling, you can delay starting the channel and get the full benefit of the ability.

- Give lots of thought to when & where you want to put down Sanctuary. In 10man, it's sometimes not worth keeping it on cooldown, I believe, because at some points of many fights not enough people will be standing in it for enough of its duration to justify the expenditure of the mana it takes to cast it.

- Halo and Divine Star are currently *really* strong abilities. Always give lots of thought (especially in 10man) to the question of which lvl 90 talent you're going to use for a fight. When in doubt, ask yourself: "what part of this fight needs the most healing? which talent will be strongest for THAT specific moment?"

In terms of addons, other people have given a lot of great advice. I found I wanted a bar mod to give me more flexibility to have abilities where they're specifically useful for me (I use Bartender). I also love VuhDo as a raid frame mod, though it's not the easiest addon to figure out how to use (I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer when it comes to interfacing with software).

The third addon I *love* is Weak Auras. I love it because it's really *fun*! Again, it took me some time to figure out hwo to get it to do things I wanted it to do, but it allows you to set up completely customizable alerts for when spells or trinkets come off cooldown, and to alert you to procs that are important to utilize properly (for example, From Darkness Comes Light, or Divine Insight). You can set up digital timers as auras, or have Weak Auras use spell/item icons to show on your screen to alert you, or use cool graphics/"runes" etc you like the look of to alert you, or use text as an alert, or use "progress bars" which drain (or fill; your preference) to demonstrate a timer or the duration of an effect. You can use audio cues with Weak Auras too.
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90 Night Elf Druid
13170
WOW! Thank you all for the fantastic advice. Sadly I am stuck at work still but I can not wait to get back home and start tinkering.

Lucky for me 4 of the members of our guild are already running SoO LFR and they are going to help me get gear on TI tonight. I built some Target of Target macros for atonement healing last night so I think Disc will be easier to play for now and it will help with our raid dps.

As of right now we have myself as a disc/holy and a shaman as a hybrid dps/healer. Are there any recommendations for whom to look for as a good compliment for the second full time healer? I have heard that Disc/Monk is a great combo as well as Disc/druid but my assumption is that it won’t matter at our stage.

Again thank you all for the advice I love the welcoming nature of the healer forum community. I am nervous but very excited to make the jump away from LFR. I look forward to coming back daily :)


If you're getting a 3rd healer (I'd 3 heal at first until you guys get comfortable) get one with a DPS off spec, a good chunk of the normal fights can be 2 healed and if needed they can always swap. If the majority of the people have raid experience previously (outside of LFR) you may be able to 2 heal, if not 3 works :P Unless the shaman will be the one going DPS when needed. As for a healer I would probably say a druid, depending on what the rest of your comp is (when it comes to token and gear). But anything will work really.

tl;dr it doesn't matter! Get what you can that won't put too many players on one token.

And we are always here for advice! Especially once you start raiding and have more questions, don't be scared to ask :) Good luck in gearing up and good luck once you start raiding!
Edited by Veroicone on 9/29/2013 2:05 PM PDT
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90 Human Priest
12900
As of right now we have myself as a disc/holy and a shaman as a hybrid dps/healer. Are there any recommendations for whom to look for as a good compliment for the second full time healer? I have heard that Disc/Monk is a great combo as well as Disc/druid but my assumption is that it won’t matter at our stage.


The *only* healer that *might* not be recommended to add for a 10man team would be a 2nd Disc priest. The main reason that's "inadvisable" is because two Disc priests can have difficulty with maximizing Rapture in single-target fights, and because once one priest has put PW:S on someone, that blocks the other priest from using that healing option for the target.

The PW:S for raidwide pre-shielding thing is not as difficult a situation in MoP as it was pre-MoP, because we now use Spirit Shell for so much of our pre-shielding that both Discs will have healing options which didn't used to exist, so long as they coordinate. The Rapture thing isn't *quite* as bad as it used to be either, because pre-MoP Rapture was a *huge* deal and even just earlier in MoP, it was a bigger deal than it is now in 5.4.

So a 10man that uses 2 Disc priests to heal still needs those Disc priests to coordinate their PW:S usage, but it doesn't tie their hands to the extent it used to.

However, having said all of that - there's absolutely no problem for a Disc priest to heal alongside a Holy priest, and you enjoy Holy, so that would be another option for your raid if you were looking at bringing a 2nd priest healer into the group.
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100 Tauren Priest
20170
Bah did no one recommend bartender to replace the blizzard art bar? For shame.

Can't really add anything else other than what others have said here other than to stress do not add a second disc priest in a ten man raid. If it becomes a choice between 2 disc priests or a disc holy priest def be the holy priest. Also decursive is extremely helpful as well for dispels.
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90 Human Priest
12900
Bah did no one recommend bartender to replace the blizzard art bar? For shame.

Can't really add anything else other than what others have said here other than to stress do not add a second disc priest in a ten man raid. If it becomes a choice between 2 disc priests or a disc holy priest def be the holy priest. Also decursive is extremely helpful as well for dispels.


I'm considering ditching Decursive and just getting VuhDo set up to change health bar colour when someone needs a dispel.

Having said that, Decursive was absolutely integral to my first attempts at being a better healer, before I got up the nerve to learn how to play around with a raidframe addon (again - I'm a VERY slow learner when it comes to playing around with complex mod interfaces, so this was a big thing for me).
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90 Night Elf Druid
13170
Bah did no one recommend bartender to replace the blizzard art bar? For shame.

Can't really add anything else other than what others have said here other than to stress do not add a second disc priest in a ten man raid. If it becomes a choice between 2 disc priests or a disc holy priest def be the holy priest. Also decursive is extremely helpful as well for dispels.


I already did!

(does that mean I get a cookie :D)
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100 Tauren Priest
20170
You can have one of my Reese's pieces.
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