Proving grounds.

90 Night Elf Rogue
9350
Aaand you can do suboptimal rotations and still complete LFR. You don't need to do an optimal rotation to complete LFR, this is why I feel like Proving Grounds at least shows you can somewhat handle target switching, tank cooldowns, etc. You don't need to be skilled to do Proving Grounds or LFR, but you at least somewhat need to know some basic mechanics that I feel like Proving Grounds at least shows you or teaches you about.

I had an argument against that, but I'm too tired to remember it. I guess you're right to a point though. Either way, I feel like requiring PG silver (or anything for that matter) to get into LFRs is silly and won't change anything. As I've said before those who put in the bare minimum will still put in the bare minimum and those who do not will continue to put effort into it. It's just the way raiding works. Not just LFR it happens in normal/heroic raids as well. Only difference is LFR is the only difficulty where you have to deal with it.
11 Draenei Paladin
50
09/27/2013 06:50 AMPosted by Stockings
Then I think the real problem with LFR needs to be addressed before we can make any improvements on it: Stopping people from AFKing in it


This is the truth and blizz might be able to accomplish it by tweaking LFR a little by breaking /follow while in an LFR instance and implementing some sort of player activity meter that when they fall below a certain threshold find themselves out of the instance.

Proving ground achievements are about as useful as a driver's license, think about that the next time some guy cuts you off and flips you the bird, there is a very high chance he holds a valid drivers license.
90 Pandaren Shaman
4360
Silver and Gold are way above the skill level of LFR. If you can do bronze, you can do LFR and "heroic" dungeons. Silver is about the same skill level as normal raids, whereas Gold is like challenge modes or heroic raids.

I am speaking of the healer proving grounds...I'm not sure how the tank and DPS ones are because I haven't tried them. I have heard they are much easier. If you can get Gold healer, then you are pretty much ready for heroic progression raiding.

Um, gold for any of them isn't hard. On ptr I got endless 30 for all of them and couldn't care to do them now.
100 Human Warlock
11555
You are a lock... my lock pwns everything just like my blood DK (hunter isn't bad either). Play a real class other than a faceroll class and people might believe you.


You may well be right. I srick with warlock and a mage. Thery are fun and without a doubt the two biggest overpowered/faceroll classes in the game.

Proving Grounds may well be harder for the more skilled classes.
90 Orc Shaman
6405
09/27/2013 07:27 AMPosted by Judgernaught
Then I think the real problem with LFR needs to be addressed before we can make any improvements on it: Stopping people from AFKing in it


This is the truth and blizz might be able to accomplish it by tweaking LFR a little by breaking /follow while in an LFR instance and implementing some sort of player activity meter that when they fall below a certain threshold find themselves out of the instance.

Proving ground achievements are about as useful as a driver's license, think about that the next time some guy cuts you off and flips you the bird, there is a very high chance he holds a valid drivers license.


Hah, that's a great analogy. I always think something similar while I'm driving. "These are the people that teach my kids, prepare my food, take care of me when I'm sick, etc., and they can't operate an automobile properly." (Something any teen-ager could do.)
90 Blood Elf Priest
9065

(I don't think gold would be a good idea, because a lot of my guild's healers are pretty good, however the "Party members" you get are as dumb as bricks.)


The party members are a lot better since the hotfix.
100 Human Mage
15440
09/27/2013 07:27 AMPosted by Judgernaught
breaking /follow while in an LFR instance


This was not the best way to fix bg's since it's been proven to have no effect on botting, and this won't help lfr.
90 Human Priest
10285
Proving ground achievements are about as useful as a driver's license, think about that the next time some guy cuts you off and flips you the bird, there is a very high chance he holds a valid drivers license.


Are you implying that requiring a driver license to (legally) operate a vehicle does nothing to help our road safety, that having to demonstrate your ability to use a vehicle before actually using one is pointless? Are you suggesting that if we were to completely drop the license requirement, that the quality of the drivers on the roads would take zero hit whatsoever?

Sure the guy on the road might cut you off and be a schmuck, but at least he has demonstrated he is at least semi-capable of driving.

Quite honestly, your little analogy supports the ideology of requiring proving ground achievements for LFR, in my opinion.
11 Draenei Paladin
50
09/27/2013 07:32 AMPosted by Fairadey
This was not the best way to fix bg's since it's been proven to have no effect on botting, and this won't help lfr


No but it will slow the afkers down a bit at least.
90 Blood Elf Priest
5330
09/27/2013 05:37 AMPosted by Yunshi
I like this idea (have the requirement at gold), but I feel that a lot of people will not like this idea, nor will it ever happen


Well as I said. the healers might have a problem with proving grounds in there, because again. "They are dumb as a pile of bricks" (have a healer friend complaining because the NPC's are standing in bad.)


Done intentionally.

The idea here is to give you a real world scenario to deal with, and people taking too long to exit the swirling maw of death is one you're going to see many times as a healer.

The Proving will not make the NPCs stand in the bad and never budge until they die, but they will stand in it to finish a cast or for a few seconds to simulate the usual player actions. There are lots of DPS that will stand in bad a couple seconds longer to do whatever - when you are jockeying the meter hard an extra couple seconds that only penalizes the healers is pretty much expected.
90 Undead Priest
10200
Done intentionally.


Since it was fixed, I don't thing so.
100 Human Mage
15440
09/27/2013 07:36 AMPosted by Judgernaught
This was not the best way to fix bg's since it's been proven to have no effect on botting, and this won't help lfr


No but it will slow the afkers down a bit at least.


I'm sorry, but poking a group of players in the eye for a bad reason is bad. And no I'm not talking about afkers or botters, but those who multibox and legit have all the toons participating.
90 Undead Priest
4275
09/27/2013 07:41 AMPosted by Fairadey


No but it will slow the afkers down a bit at least.


I'm sorry, but poking a group of players in the eye for a bad reason is bad. And no I'm not talking about afkers or botters, but those who multibox and legit have all the toons participating.


People who multibox found a way around the /follow removal in BGs, I am sure they can work around it in LFR.
90 Undead Priest
10200


I'm sorry, but poking a group of players in the eye for a bad reason is bad. And no I'm not talking about afkers or botters, but those who multibox and legit have all the toons participating.


People who multibox found a way around the /follow removal in BGs, I am sure they can work around it in LFR.


And they don't have any specific "rights" on changes. Like that thread demanding that /follow should be restored, since the blind guy was hurt by the removal of it.
Edited by Médic on 9/27/2013 7:48 AM PDT
100 Human Paladin
16855
Doing heroic 25man SoO and have yet to care about proving grounds, because they prove nothing.

Just like how me being a rank 10 brawler proves nothing.
I slept through dps bronze and silver, didn't bother with gold, it wouldn't change anything


Sure sure.
100 Orc Death Knight
16140
I just kind of blindly charged into proving grounds, and 1 shot bronze/silver/gold without any real effort.

I think its a little to easy to make as some kind of "skill barricade"
100 Human Paladin
12175
I feel Proving grounds is a wonderful tool in learning how to play your class. This is why I propose people should get at least Silver before being able to enter SoO LFR. Any LFR player who knows how to play can easily get this, or even gold. and it would show they can follow mechanics while still using their class properly. and tbh it takes like 10-15 minutes to do bronze and silver if you one shot them.

(I don't think gold would be a good idea, because a lot of my guild's healers are pretty good, however the "Party members" you get are as dumb as bricks.)


So how does this enforce players actually using those skills in LFR?

I ask because I've seen a good number of extremely well-geared players (normal and some heroic items) slacking right off in LFR, while the rest of them pick up that slack. It's not the common case, but I've seen it more than I've seen the people who clearly don't know what they're doing.

Still, it reminds me that I really should give Proving Grounds a try. It was on my list of top things in 5.4, but I never make the time.
90 Undead Priest
10200
Just like how me being a rank 10 brawler proves nothing.


It proves you can do X dps to beat some really strict enrage timers.
100 Orc Death Knight
16140
09/27/2013 07:54 AMPosted by Médic
Just like how me being a rank 10 brawler proves nothing.


It proves you can do X dps to beat some really strict enrage timers.


Also shows you understand the concept of fight mechanics, and can handle them
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