Proving grounds.

90 Orc Shaman
6405
It's kind of funny that we're talking about gating content behind some "test." In the old days of gaming, the test was in obtaining the higher levels. Just goes to show you how watered down today's gaming is.
90 Human Rogue
3700

I am not sure why you are arguing with my perception of things because this is my perception and my evaluation and you won't win. In my books things AREN'T equal and because of this any ranking someone gets is meaningless to me. You are certainly entitled to your opinion, however, I suggest you actually do try different classes/specs in order to actually have an informed opinion.


Perception doesn't matter, the fact that large numbers of players of every spec have done gold for their role is what matters. Data is far more important than your feeling that it might be imbalanced.

Additionally, this thread is mostly about silver, which is a joke for any spec (except those going for you're doing it wrong, of course).


And you haven't provided me with any data. I will probably never go into those again because in my opinion they are a waste of time. Also perception makes a huge difference to people in terms of gating LFR behind 'proving' yourself. Try and think about it - if someone thinks proving grounds is total BS and proves nothing what do you think their reaction is going to be when they ARE FORCED to do these in order to gain access to a feature they have been using all along.

In any case, I feel like I am wasting my time discussing this with you just like I feel like proving grounds 'proves' nothing and is a total waste of time, so I won't bother responding to you anymore.
90 Blood Elf Priest
9065
09/27/2013 08:58 AMPosted by Mirisanelle
Silver was pretty simple to complete, so I agree. You should at least be able to do silver to do a LRF.


Telling millions of players "do this test or else be locked out of content" is ..unwise. Wixch is why it will never happen.


Could make it optional.

min ilvl is x without silver, y with silver.

x should be doable if you get every single pre-raid upgrade possible. y should be significantly easier gearing.
Edited by Quorim on 9/27/2013 9:03 AM PDT
90 Night Elf Hunter
18860
Barathos: I have seen fully gemmed, enchanted and reforged raiders hit a boss one night and down it in one swoop.. a week later they wipe all night..on the same boss.

As for a system, we have one already. Its called the kick.

BTW it doesnt worry me as I am not touching PG either way. Optional content means I can do it if I like...and it doesnt interest me. So not doing it.


I have too, but I don't understand how normal raids = lfr in terms of difficulty.

Unfortunately, certain people have "kick" protection, because they keep getting kicked. It just happens, and there's no way to move around it.

And LFR is also optional, so locking it behind PG Silver wouldn't be much of an issue as it is optional. It literally takes about 30 minutes to a hour to complete up to Silver, and if you can't beat the test then... I guess no LFR until you do. =/
90 Human Warlock
9100
And LFR is also optional, so locking it behind PG Silver wouldn't be much of an issue as it is optional. It literally takes about 30 minutes to a hour to complete up to Silver, and if you can't beat the test then... I guess no LFR until you do. =/


..and lock a large percentage of players out of endgame content.

Great idea.

Either way you will be FORCING them to do PG whether they want to or not. Telling people "do this because its mandatory" wont get you the kind of response you think it will.

They cant do flex owing to time issues, same for norm/ heroics, now they wont get to see the current raids unless they do this "mandatory test"..oh I can see this ending well.....
Edited by Mirisanelle on 9/27/2013 9:07 AM PDT
90 Gnome Mage
14010
It's kind of funny that we're talking about gating content behind some "test." In the old days of gaming, the test was in obtaining the higher levels. Just goes to show you how watered down today's gaming is.


You know, you can do that with a single player game... you can have your difficulty levels and even cheat codes. Not so with wow
90 Night Elf Hunter
18860
09/27/2013 09:05 AMPosted by Mirisanelle
And LFR is also optional, so locking it behind PG Silver wouldn't be much of an issue as it is optional. It literally takes about 30 minutes to a hour to complete up to Silver, and if you can't beat the test then... I guess no LFR until you do. =/


..and lock a large percentage of players out of endgame content.

Great idea.

Either way you will be FORCING them to do PG whether they want to or not. Telling peopkle "do this because its mandatory" wont get you the kind of response you think it will.


It's a better idea than sitting in a LFR for 4-5 hours hoping to get a boss down, because if I leave, I know I'll have the same group composition for some ridiculous reason. -_-
90 Gnome Mage
14010
And LFR is also optional, so locking it behind PG Silver wouldn't be much of an issue as it is optional. It literally takes about 30 minutes to a hour to complete up to Silver, and if you can't beat the test then... I guess no LFR until you do. =/


My answer Up yours! Cancelling all my accounts.
11 Draenei Paladin
50
09/27/2013 09:02 AMPosted by Barathos
Unfortunately, certain people have "kick" protection, because they keep getting kicked. It just happens, and there's no way to move around it


This is true and shows they most likely enjoy misbehaving in group content and will likely continue to do so therefore requiring them to have a PG achievement will do nothing to curb their behavior and you still won't be able to kick them.
90 Human Warlock
9100
It's a better idea than sitting in a LFR for 4-5 hours hoping to get a boss down, because if I leave, I know I'll have the same group composition for some ridiculous reason.


I've been doing LFR since it started and this has never once happened to me. Sounds like the issue isnt LFR..it's your server.
90 Night Elf Hunter
18860
09/27/2013 09:13 AMPosted by Mirisanelle
It's a better idea than sitting in a LFR for 4-5 hours hoping to get a boss down, because if I leave, I know I'll have the same group composition for some ridiculous reason.


I've been doing LFR since it started and this has never once happened to me. Sounds like the issue isnt LFR..it's your server.


Except LFR is cross server, so that's obviously not the case, and I've also been doing LFR since it came out and suffered from these exact issues back in DS.

This is true and shows they most likely enjoy misbehaving in group content and will likely continue to do so therefore requiring them to have a PG achievement will do nothing to curb their behavior and you still won't be able to kick them.


I see the PG as what it is, a PROVING ground, where you actually have to understand your class to beat it. If you don't, then you can't past the test. Thus, I think it's a good idea to implement into the LFR proving process. People are already gated out due to iLvl, so saying "oh yeah! Gate them out, that's a great idea!" don't seem to realize that it's already gated.
90 Undead Priest
4275
09/27/2013 08:58 AMPosted by Mirisanelle
Silver was pretty simple to complete, so I agree. You should at least be able to do silver to do a LRF.


Telling millions of players "do this test or else be locked out of content" is ..unwise. Wixch is why it will never happen.

I don't know about TESO, but Wildstar does. With the telegraph system, they slowly speed up how fast mobs drop things and how long of a window you have to move out of it, etc, increasing the difficulty as you get higher level.


Hm. I'll look at it and decide. Plenty of other MMO's out there.


That is essentially how WoW is, except for some reason in the middle of dungeons/heroics they put in dailies and LFR. I like that LFR is a bit more challenging now, but I also fully accept that needing that much coordination in a random group of 25 people just *will* not work. In 5 mans, the most coordination you'd need was "be careful of this one ability on this boss" and marking certain mobs for CC, and you only had to worry about coordinating with 5 people. The hardest part of LFR aren't the abilities doing too much damage or the mechanics or anything, it is trying to coordinate with 24 other random players. You can't have LFR be too easy though, or it becomes weird in terms of the difficulty progression and people don't learn anything from it when moving on into higher difficulties. And it can't be too hard because it uses a random grouping mechanism and you can't control what kind of players you're going to get or if they even listen or follow instructions. I understand why it exists, but in its current state is very flawed design wise, and definitely needs some tweaking to fix the inherent problems.

But essentially in Wildstar, you learn how to play as you play, the system teaches you by playing. Here is a good video explaining why this kind of design is good:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FpigqfcvlM
Edited by Stockings on 9/27/2013 9:21 AM PDT
90 Human Warlock
9100
Stockings: Just bear this very much in mind: WOW aint the only game in town. Players these days have a low BS threshhold, and if a game gets to be more trouble than its worth..bye bye.

There are plenty of other MMO's out there that wont put them through that kind of hassle.

More flies with honey...you dig?

But essentially in Wildstar, you learn how to play as you play, the system teaches you by playing. Here is a good video explaining why this kind of design is good:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FpigqfcvlM


So it teaches by playing. Good. Is Wildstar going to then tell the people who are already playing and know the game that they will gate content behind a "test" telling them they have to prove they are "competent" to be able to play?

You do realise what the reply will be?

I dont think so Tim.
Edited by Mirisanelle on 9/27/2013 9:25 AM PDT
90 Orc Shaman
6405
09/27/2013 09:08 AMPosted by Magnata
And LFR is also optional, so locking it behind PG Silver wouldn't be much of an issue as it is optional. It literally takes about 30 minutes to a hour to complete up to Silver, and if you can't beat the test then... I guess no LFR until you do. =/


My answer Up yours! Cancelling all my accounts.


Do you always throw a tantrum when you don't get your way? Are you 3?

This is the problem with gaming today. People are so quick to hostility, instead of just welcoming a challenge. It's no wonder there are so many terrible players in this game.
90 Undead Priest
4275
09/27/2013 09:13 AMPosted by Mirisanelle
It's a better idea than sitting in a LFR for 4-5 hours hoping to get a boss down, because if I leave, I know I'll have the same group composition for some ridiculous reason.


I've been doing LFR since it started and this has never once happened to me. Sounds like the issue isnt LFR..it's your server.


I don't believe that you have never ever got a bad LFR group in your entirety of playing it since it came out in 4.3. That just sounds utterly impossible.
90 Undead Priest
4275
Stockings: Just bear this very much in mind: WOW aint the only game in town. Players these days have a low BS threshhold, and if a game gets to be more trouble than its worth..bye bye.

There are plenty of other MMO's out there that wont put them through that kind of hassle.

More flies with honey...you dig?

But essentially in Wildstar, you learn how to play as you play, the system teaches you by playing. Here is a good video explaining why this kind of design is good:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FpigqfcvlM


So it teaches by playing. Good. Is Wildstar going to then tell the people who are already playing and know the game that they will gate content behind a "test" telling them they have to prove they are "competent" to be able to play?

You do realise what the reply will be?

I dont think so Tim.


No, because Wildstar is designed differently than WoW. They don't need to test people with something like Proving Grounds because the test is built into the game and the combat system. They can teach people by doing, WoW has a lot more of a tougher time doing this due to how it is fundamentally designed.

And wiping for 5+ hours in LFR can become "a lot more trouble than it is worth".
Edited by Stockings on 9/27/2013 9:30 AM PDT
90 Night Elf Hunter
18860
09/27/2013 09:08 AMPosted by Magnata
And LFR is also optional, so locking it behind PG Silver wouldn't be much of an issue as it is optional. It literally takes about 30 minutes to a hour to complete up to Silver, and if you can't beat the test then... I guess no LFR until you do. =/


My answer Up yours! Cancelling all my accounts.


Bye, don't let the door hit you on the way out. :)
90 Human Warlock
9100
I don't believe that you have never ever got a bad LFR group in your entirety of playing it since it came out in 4.3. That just sounds utterly impossible.


To you maybe.

Its true nonetheless.

In all my LFR runs from incept to today, I have NEVER ONCE been in an LFR that wiped for five hours.

Not once. Ever.

Barathos: If that reply comes from a lot of players, and this was your game, I doubt you'd be that glib or dismissive.
Edited by Mirisanelle on 9/27/2013 9:33 AM PDT
Silver maybe but GOLD wave 10 seems impossible.

I came close like 50 times at wave 10 on the last 2 GIANTS and died. Used winter, IBF, and the entire works and that last wave 10 is just too much to handle for me. I come close though. REALLLLLLL close.

My next move is to get EPICS with tons of sockets so when it SCALES I have the extra HP to help.

I am thinking people who have the best EPICS, gems and most sockets will have an advantage at GOLD.

Damn.
Edited by Chicasta on 9/27/2013 9:34 AM PDT
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