Why are you nerfing warrior's self-heals?

85 Orc Warrior
3185
I'm.....unhappy with this. I know exactly why this is being nerfed too. It's not for PVP reasons at all. It's for PvE. Under the new healing mechanic (mana being an important factor and anything you can do to help heal yourself is supposedly the thing to do as the nerfs tell us) it would seem that blizzard see's our self healing too powerful. This might be true if we had a spammable CC to utilize. However we do not. We have to offtank things in our fury/arms spec (because i have a pvp dps spec and a pve dps spec). With the lack of tanking talents to help facilitate this function we rely on getting all the heals we can. Second Wind, Blood Craze, and Bloodthirst (and it's glyph) have all been severely nerfed to the point where you avoid taking these talents if you can. Because the benefit of the self healing talents vs putting points into increasing your dps on a boss via dps talents (which ends the fights quicker, which means a healer theoretically will not have to heal as much cause the fight is over that much sooner) is l..... well..... self healing is not very good.

I don't like that im seeing my self-healing cut, and not seeing any buffs to our ability to help crowd control a target. My offtanking (to help the tank since that's the only real help i can do) is going to be weaker because of this change come cataclysm.

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85 Goblin Hunter
4030
It made warriors OP in pvp situations, that is the only reason I can think of.
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90 Pandaren Warrior
15475
Warrior self healing went from poor, to great, back to poor. :(
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85 Night Elf Druid
0
The Glyph of Bloodthirst should be made baseline.
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90 Human Warrior
13280
I heard Bloodthirst was all sorts of OP and giving way too much healing, so they had to nerf its glyph.
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90 Human Warrior
13280
I fought a prot warrior yesterday and he healed back from 20 to 50K in a blink of an eye. It was just ridiculous. He healed back to 50K faster than I nuked him down from 50 to 20.

Now tell me that isn't OP with all the stuns, charges and interrupts prot gets. It's absurd and needs a big nerf for PvP.


The only way that is possible is if he popped Enraged Regeneration, which is a 3 minute cooldown. Or he may have killed your pet to proc victory rush to get a heal. Either way neither of those heals has been affected by the nerfs.

When referencing the abilities that are being nerfed, even if you stunned/rooted him and procced Blood Craze, in 5 seconds he would heal at most 15% of his health. In the best case scenario he would have healed from 20k to 27.5k in the span of 5 seconds. Hardly the blink of an eye, and that is by far the best case scenario. You could have avoided nearly half that healing by not stunning/rooting the warrior, and the other half of that healing is available via a low prot rate proc that the warrior spends 3 talent points to get, and 2 more enhancing.




Actually come to think of it, you're talking about on live, so the prot warrior can't even have second wind yet. So at most you had a prot warrior heal 9% of his hp over 5 seconds via talents that are being affected. The alternative is you being the victim of a well timed victory rush (which requires a killing blow, hardly a readily available comodity in PVP), or Enraged Regen (a 3 minute cooldown, and the only non-shield defense available to warriors)
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90 Human Warrior
13280
Someone didn't see what warriors were doing running around chaining victory rushes.

Put a wrathful shadowmourne warrior in a BG and they need to be 5 manned to down.



If Victory Rush's burst healing is what's making warriors too strong, why was VR left untouched while all of our talented healing got nerfed hard?
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90 Orc Warrior
10750
I fought a prot warrior yesterday and he healed back from 20 to 50K in a blink of an eye. It was just ridiculous. He healed back to 50K faster than I nuked him down from 50 to 20.

Now tell me that isn't OP with all the stuns, charges and interrupts prot gets. It's absurd and needs a big nerf for PvP.


Ya, cause lock self healing is fine... lets not forget rogues
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85 Blood Elf Death Knight
5615
EVERYONE's self healing got nerfed, especially % of max hp based self healing.

It WAS really about pvp and it was NOT specifically anti warrior. Warriors didn't get special negative attention. ALL self healing got nerfed but resilience and stamina got buffed.

Except Recuperate, but don't worry Recuperate is going to get nerfed HARD before s9 starts.
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90 Human Warrior
13280
EVERYONE's self healing got nerfed, especially % of max hp based self healing.

It WAS really about pvp and it was NOT specifically anti warrior. Warriors didn't get special negative attention. ALL self healing got nerfed but resilience and stamina got buffed.


It wasn't specifically anti warrior, but warriors got hit hardest by it. Also after the first round of changes, they for some reason thought fury self healing was too strong so they nerfed the blood thirst glyph on top of the nerfs already made to bloodthirst. We've gone from having a glyphed bloodthirst healing 2% of hp to .7% of hp. We're going to see health pools get tripled and damage going up by a lot, yet BT still healing the same amount that it does today. Waste of a glyph slot.

Except Recuperate, but don't worry Recuperate is going to get nerfed HARD before s9 starts.


You seem pretty confident in that.
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90 Human Paladin
12095
warriors, who have no healing spells, were more capable at self-healing than ret paladins and enhancement shaman, who actually have healing spells. that's kind of an oddity, wouldn't you agree?

rogues continue to have an excellent self-heal mechanic, but i suspect that is because recuperate is supposed to function as the rogue's survivability buff in combat situations now that they cannot entirely control their opponents throughout the entire fight.
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90 Human Warrior
13280
warriors, who have no healing spells, were more capable at self-healing than ret paladins and enhancement shaman, who actually have healing spells. that's kind of an oddity, wouldn't you agree?


Yet Warlocks, Spriests, Ele Shamans, etc were all better and have been left untouched. Enh is also arguable, given Enh mana generation rates and MW's cost reduction, they can heal pretty effectively. I remember enhance shamans in beta healing level 85 5 mans capably (though resto was still better at it).

rogues continue to have an excellent self-heal mechanic, but i suspect that is because recuperate is supposed to function as the rogue's survivability buff in combat situations now that they cannot entirely control their opponents throughout the entire fight.


And what's a non-prot warrior's survivability? We have defensive cooldowns, but so do rogues, and rogues don't give up half their damage to use theirs. Stronger armor is good and all, but useless against half the classes in the game. I'd gladly trade half my armor for even half of a rogue's self healing.

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1 Draenei Hunter
0
warriors, who have no healing spells, were more capable at self-healing than ret paladins and enhancement shaman, who actually have healing spells. that's kind of an oddity, wouldn't you agree?


It's not an oddity, no. Those hybrid specs can cast heals on other players, which is an extremely important distinction between their heals and that of a warrior. Warrior self-healing was just part of the classes defensive toolkit and nothing more. It didn't threaten healers, or have anything to do with hybrids. The self-healing from Blood Craze and Second Wind was just a less boring way of negating damage than straight damage reduction.

The only relevant comment on self-healing is if it makes those specs utilizing it too powerful. If that's the case, then that's one thing. Healers and offensive hybrid healing capabilities have exactly no relevance to something like Blood Craze.
Edited by Mayeli on 11/10/2010 4:02 PM PST
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90 Orc Warlock
0
You are not unique, you merely received your self healing nerf later than other classes who have had their self healing abilities (talking about non healing hybrids or pures here) already nerfed.

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85 Blood Elf Death Knight
5615
Secondwind, Recuperate is currently outhealing a full set of hots from a priest or druid in lvl 85 pvp.

There are lvl 85 arena videos (2v2) demonstrating a rogue with no healer in a 5 minute arena match where there were below 20% hp multiple times end the match at full hp (AGAIN, with NO healer) while never eating once.


Recuperate will not go live in s9 like that, it's the most overpowered dps healing abilty in the game by such a large margin there's no way it will go live unnerfed.

Bet on it, Recuperate will be nerfed hard.
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