Why are you nerfing warrior's self-heals?

88 Human Death Knight
5605
Recuperate only heals that much if you have quickening, improved recuperate, and stack stamina and mastery as sub, and if you are doing that, you are probably gonna kill as fast as a holy pally.

Just because Zolaf did it and put out some stupidly high healing doesn't mean that its normal or even practical, since you don't have the points for puncturing wounds if you do that.

It usually puts out enough healing to stand toe to toe with a non-elite without losing HP, and the damage quickly begins to exceed it with more targets, elites, or players. To be honest, its how the rest of DPS healing should be, rather than a pitiful amount that requires using two runes, all your holy power, or a 5 stack of maelstrom weapon.
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90 Human Warrior
13405
Well, should high damage and high surviability be allowed? There was no balance.


Damage and survivability should be somewhere in the middle for all cases. The methods of the survivability and damage can change, but having a unkillable low damage character or a glass cannon is no fun in PVP, for either side.

Also, I'd like to know if people would complain about passive healing if it was like this to being with? Or were people so used to it?


I dunno, Warrior self healing was actually a lot stronger on 3.3 than it in 4.0.1, because bloodcraze and a MUCH higher proc chance (100% on a crit rather than 10% on hit).

Then Bloodthirst got nerfed to 50% of what it was on top of that. And now with the newest changes bloodthirst is losing another 30% of its healing, and bloodcraze is losing 66% of its healing on top of having a really low uptime, and second wind is losing 50% of its healing despite being activated completely based on an opponent's choices.
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83 Tauren Hunter
5620
Secondwind, Recuperate is currently outhealing a full set of hots from a priest or druid in lvl 85 pvp.

There are lvl 85 arena videos (2v2) demonstrating a rogue with no healer in a 5 minute arena match where there were below 20% hp multiple times end the match at full hp (AGAIN, with NO healer) while never eating once.


Recuperate will not go live in s9 like that, it's the most overpowered dps healing abilty in the game by such a large margin there's no way it will go live unnerfed.

Bet on it, Recuperate will be nerfed hard.


yeah thats what happens when you base healing spells off of percentages of health instead of a set amount of healing
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87 Dwarf Shaman
7405
They nerfed self healing across the board all the way down to Glyph of Evo for Mages - its pretty well spread out evenly across all classes.

-Z
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80 Night Elf Druid
10230
I am currently leveling a warrior and if you know how well Victory Rush is currently working you would not be upset at the nerfs.

As a balance druid I would want these "self-heals" and "absorbs" so many other classes have rather than have straight heals and HoTs for PvP. When I have to deal damage equal to or greater than twice somebody's health pool to kill them it is absurd.
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80 Blood Elf Mage
1495
warriors, who have no healing spells, were more capable at self-healing than ret paladins and enhancement shaman, who actually have healing spells. that's kind of an oddity, wouldn't you agree?


It's not an oddity, no. Those hybrid specs can cast heals on other players, which is an extremely important distinction between their heals and that of a warrior. Warrior self-healing was just part of the classes defensive toolkit and nothing more. It didn't threaten healers, or have anything to do with hybrids. The self-healing from Blood Craze and Second Wind was just a less boring way of negating damage than straight damage reduction.

The only relevant comment on self-healing is if it makes those specs utilizing it too powerful. If that's the case, then that's one thing. Healers and offensive hybrid healing capabilities have exactly no relevance to something like Blood Craze.


Same old same old. Class gets nerfed, thinks its the only class that got nerfed or that it got hit the HARDEST and that the nerfs were unfair. Unaffected classes say the nerf was fair...yadda yadda yadda.....Warriors were self healing way too well in PVP and you know it. Sorry but the nerfs were warranted and NO, ret paladins do not heal others in PVP. They struggle with limited mana to heal themselves..so...no your attempt to distinguish fails.
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90 Human Warrior
13405


Same old same old. Class gets nerfed, thinks its the only class that got nerfed or that it got hit the HARDEST and that the nerfs were unfair. Unaffected classes say the nerf was fair...yadda yadda yadda.....Warriors were self healing way too well in PVP and you know it. Sorry but the nerfs were warranted and NO, ret paladins do not heal others in PVP. They struggle with limited mana to heal themselves..so...no your attempt to distinguish fails.


1) Pallies have talents to encourage them to heal others, by making their heals more effective on others, and providing a damage bonus to themselves. Its actually one of the bigger ret complaints that they heal others more than themselves.

2) Throughout this thread I've argued exactly what the warrior self healing amounts were. I am still failing to see how a HoT that ticks for 1.8% hps with a 50% uptime while being focused and 0% uptime otherwise, was overpowered.

For comparison the new rogue nerf puts recup at 1.6% hps 100% of the time.

Most of the anecdotes people give about warrior self healing are literally impossible, or come from other sources that are much less reliable, such as a Victory Rush proc or a Enraged Regeneration being popped.
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80 Blood Elf Paladin
4710
Why does warrior needs strong self-healing? Aside from PvP, where it shouldn't be strong?
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90 Human Warrior
13405
Why does warrior needs strong self-healing? Aside from PvP, where it shouldn't be strong?


Why should a warrior spend 7 talent points on something that is so negligible that it literally doesn't affect combat at all?
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80 Blood Elf Paladin
4710
Why does warrior needs strong self-healing? Aside from PvP, where it shouldn't be strong?


Why should a warrior spend 7 talent points on something that is so negligible that it literally doesn't affect combat at all?


Because other talents should cost more, and they run out of filler ideas? Filler talents are filler.

Warriors are not currently broken due to lack of self-healing, so in my mind this is very much non-issue.
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87 Human Warrior
8160
So Warrior self heals are gone... can I have my HP advantage back then?
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85 Blood Elf Death Knight
5615
Recuperate only heals that much if you have quickening, improved recuperate, and stack stamina and mastery as sub, and if you are doing that, you are probably gonna kill as fast as a holy pally.

Just because Zolaf did it and put out some stupidly high healing doesn't mean that its normal or even practical, since you don't have the points for puncturing wounds if you do that.

It usually puts out enough healing to stand toe to toe with a non-elite without losing HP, and the damage quickly begins to exceed it with more targets, elites, or players. To be honest, its how the rest of DPS healing should be, rather than a pitiful amount that requires using two runes, all your holy power, or a 5 stack of maelstrom weapon.



You haven't seen any lvl 85 arena feedback I take it. Recuperate was OP as all hell. It needed to be nerfed.

Also, your first sentence basically boiling down to "That ability is only overpowered in pvp when used by a player in a pvp spec wearing pvp gear" is hysterically funny.
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90 Undead Warlock
3830
Uhhh, renew now ticks for like twice what our blood craze is being changed to when we'll have 100k health. Thats disgustingly OP.


You didnt just compare a healing spell from a healer class to a non healing classes heal. No really get a grip, its a healing class for christs sake.

wow some people.
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