EoL nerfed?

10/09/2013 12:26 PMPosted by Naér
It was our plan all along.

^
And next expac they'll discover it was the change to DA that caused the lag all along.

muahahahahahahahahaaa
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90 Pandaren Shaman
15390
DA that caused the lag all along.


That would be priceless.

edit: would delete that. Because it seems like if you write something on the forums in regards to lag, it must be true. Internal testers be damned.
Edited by Harpoa on 10/9/2013 12:29 PM PDT
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90 Human Priest
13720
And next expac they'll discover it was the change to DA that caused the lag all along.


aaaahahaha oh god please let it be this.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
9760
Input lag was never a problem in T14, and all of the spells that were changed because of input lag in 5.4 (HR, SCK, Holy Radiance, Sanctuary, Stormlash, etc, etc) worked the same way in T14 as they did before being changed. If input lag wasn't a major problem then, doesn't it indicate that mass healing effects are not really the culprit? On top of that, they made a large number of combat log changes in 5.2, and 5.2 is exactly when the input lag problems started. Shouldn't reverting back the combat log to how it worked before 5.2 have been the first thing done since it's highly likely it is the real cause.


I didn't see any real difference 5.2 to 5.3, so I'm not sold solely on the combat log as an issue.

5.4 Changes to various spells scaled them to 12 targets in 25's. They were reverted to 6 in most cases, and rebuffed with Smart Heals. So they don't work the same way. Beyond that, 5.4 mastery shields didn't stack well with one another. Absorbs overwrote absorbs.

Essentially, I'm leaning that Absorbs + Hots + Smart Heals are the actually issue. But only so much that they crosses the thresh hold. If a HoT is to blame, so is a DoT. I would venture, that if Blizzard turned off Smart Heals and Absorbs they'd see significant improvement in input lag. However, it doesn't really solve anything.

One thing alone doesn't seem to be at fault - they all compound on each other. Healing balance right now promotes a "AoE SPAM!" meta game just to be viable for some classes. Now all of these AoE abilities have a smart heal function, AND some have an absorb function after that. Once you throw in a Blood Lust or any DPS Burn Phase where they pop all their trinkets & cds you run into input lag.

I think in the end, input lag is here to stay until they make some major overhauls:

Removing Absorbs; Prune HoTs / DoTs; Retool Smart Heals; rescale # Targets; and otherwise abandon "cleave" trinkets and procs.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
11805
This has already been discussed in a different thread:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/9679038602

The problem with the term "Lag" is that it's a very general term that can be many very different (and unrelated) things.

Players with slower PCs (or quirky hardware configurations) can see FPS drops in-game due to a number of factors (too many high-poly-count monks in the group ... or addons not being able to keep up etc).

That is System Lag

Players with poor connectivity will experience high Latency to the WoW server causing a slight delay or loss of connectivity. In fact there have recently been widespread issues of this with Comcast and now it looks like AT&T may also be having some issues.

That is Network Lag

Neither of those are what is being discussed. The lag that Blizzard is attempting to resolve is specifically related to the ability of the servers to crunch all the numbers being thrown around in a fight.

This is Server Lag.

It has been proven to be Server Lag by eliminating the other variables. Blizzard confirmed they agree with the assessment so they are trying to work on changes to fix it.

It appears to be a problem specific to healing combined with the Legendary Cloak proc.

Holy is a top offender because of its mastery (which can proc off the Legendary proc). This is generating hundreds of events per second vs. what is typically much much less intensive.

There are other classes that have the same kind of issue but Holy was singled out as being one of the worst offenders.

So they made a hotfix to try and cut down on the amount of number crunching for Holy by making Echo of Light tick once every 3 seconds instead of once every second.

Unfortunately it doesn't seem to have been enough.

At this point I think the only easy fix is to change the Legendary Cloak proc so that it is something more conservative than triggering heals on everyone. A mana regen proc. is likely the best solution as it will allow healers to reforge out of Spirt to their preferred stat and not nerf any one spec.
Edited by Smitebrite on 10/9/2013 1:49 PM PDT
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90 Pandaren Priest
8295
thanks, captain obvious
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80 Undead Priest
18480
Now nerf divine star/aegis kkthx.
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90 Pandaren Priest
14930
Now nerf divine star/aegis kkthx.


Oh Naine. I have no idea why you're so mad. :-\
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80 Undead Priest
18480
10/09/2013 03:48 PMPosted by Tiriel
Now nerf divine star/aegis kkthx.


Oh Naine. I have no idea why you're so mad. :-\


bubbles make my game lag, obviously
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90 Pandaren Priest
14930
bubbles make my game lag, obviously


Yes, but Divine Star isn't Divine Aegis...I use Divine Star, too. :-\
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80 Undead Priest
18480
10/09/2013 03:54 PMPosted by Tiriel
bubbles make my game lag, obviously


Yes, but Divine Star isn't Divine Aegis...I use Divine Star, too. :-\


Well okay, nerf ds for disc only then.
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90 Pandaren Monk
15705
I think they should buff monks
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90 Blood Elf Mage
17095
I think they should buff monks


I heard the input lag was caused by too many Pandas.
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90 Pandaren Priest
14930
I think they should buff monks


I think they should standardize all the raid CDs, including Revival. But you already know my thoughts about the Revival nerf.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
10565
I already do this with mouseover macros in FFXIV.

Mouse over tank's healthbar, randomly hit Cure 1, Cure 2. Two people take damage? MEDICA II.

Yeah.

Better than FFXI.

Bind Refresh to Alt-1 and Haste to Alt-2. Now press:

F1, Alt-1, F2, Alt-1, F3, Alt-1, F4, Alt-1, F5, Alt-1, F6, Alt-1, F1, Alt-2, F2, Alt-2, F3, Alt-2, F4, Alt-2, F5, Alt-2, F6, Alt-2

(breathe for about 1 beat)

(repeat)

I played for hours at a time without looking at my screen.
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90 Pandaren Priest
14930
If I was a Scholar, I could just make the Fairy do the healing for me.

Of course, her solution to Single-Target Damage is to use her AoE heal.

Whispering Dawn!!!!!!!!!
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90 Pandaren Priest
8295
i always wondered why people used the skill/spell haste cds on trash
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90 Pandaren Priest
14930
i always wondered why people used the skill/spell haste cds on trash


Unless you keep her on Steady, she just spams whatever the hell she wants whenever the hell she wants. And it normally doesn't correspond with what is actually going on in the fight. lol
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90 Blood Elf Priest
10090
While I understand where this nerf is coming from (reducing the number of healing events in logs) I think the devs are missing the consequences of treating holy priests heals as a dps spell.

1- Fewer and bigger EOL hots means fewer opportunities to be healing without overhealing.
2- EOL ticking less often means getting snipped by other classes that have stronger smartheals.
3- The collaterals are substantial. Fewer healing events from a holy priest means enchants, trinkets and the legendary cape will be proccing less often. Probably 10-20% less often with items with ICD … and twice less than before if there is no ICD like the legendary cape (going from 6 to 3 heals, twice fewer opportunities for procs to happen). That change cannot stay without entirely reviewing ICDs and proc rates just for holy priests.

I don’t have a remedy for this but doing it now is basically nerfing the least represented healing spec of the game by 10 to 20% (not only EOL but including collaterals as well).
Maybe giving the same smartheal healing rain treatment to EOL would do it.
To be fair, you also want to kill hot heals pulsing at 1s, so healing stream totem set to 3s … Wild Growth at 3s as well… + this is touching the heart of the holy priest spec, creating a shift from mastery builds towards haste builds (too bad our tier set is only mastery folks!). The consequences are major and is equivalent to sacrificing an already under-represented spec to a hypothetical solution to lag.
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90 Troll Priest
9890
10/09/2013 05:02 PMPosted by Vernia
I don’t have a remedy for this but doing it now is basically nerfing the least represented healing spec of the game by 10 to 20% (not only EOL but including collaterals as well).


Did you just say that the EoL change is a 20% nerf to holy priests?

If so, you should really take some online courses and learn basic math. Some formula interpretation wouldn't hurt either.
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