CC and Diminishing returns

90 Pandaren Monk
11505
I don't PvP, but the recently stickied CC and Diminishing returns list left my head spinning.

When ppl complain about being locked down beyond their control, I used to think they were probably exaggerating, but I'm not so sure now.
Reply Quote
90 Pandaren Monk
18055
Honestly going to guess they're getting the exact opposite of what they planned from it.
Edited by Kallìk on 10/14/2013 7:17 AM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Undead Rogue
6600
I find the list entirely too long. I think the developers are using them as a crutch to fix poor designs. A top down redesign of the CC system including gap closers and gap openers would be nice. There is a fine balance between casters kiting melee and melee getting uptime that has to be just right. Maybe there could be more snares and slows with less loss of player control. I really think the game could stand to lose 40% of the cc on that list and still maintain the same balance as it has now.
Reply Quote
Community Manager
As our senior PvP designer Brian Holinka tweeted over the weekend, we've got some pretty solid goals for the future regarding crowd control. We do think it needs to be toned back a bit, both in the amount of CC effects available and in how frequently they can be used.

That said, CC is still an integral part of World of Warcraft PvP. Dealing with it intelligently, both in choosing when to use your own CC as well as reacting to opponent CC's, does have strong gameplay value.

10/14/2013 07:15 AMPosted by Kallìk
Honestly going to guess they're getting the exact opposite of what they planned from it.


Our only "plans" were to try to make an admittedly confusing system less so. Confusion about which CC effects share DR's doesn't help anyone.
Reply Quote
it's funny because they always talk about not wanting to make things over complicated then they post that list.

That list is WAY WAY to long, and impossible for your average player to remember.

Nerfing CC DR is going to be the best way to create more comp diversity. Right now teams revolve around how much un-DR'ed CC they can pump out. Making things like Paralysis all but useless.

Really need to cut down to 3 DR categories, and start making more CC share DR so people actually get to play their character more then 20% of a match.
Reply Quote
As our senior PvP designer Brian Holinka tweeted over the weekend, we've got some pretty solid goals for the future regarding crowd control. We do think it needs to be toned back a bit, both in the amount of CC effects available and in how frequently they can be used.

That said, CC is still an integral part of World of Warcraft PvP. Dealing with it intelligently, both in choosing when to use your own CC as well as reacting to opponent CC's, does have strong gameplay value.


This is great to hear it just really sucks that we are going to have to wait for a new expansion to get these fixes.

One of my major problems with Blizzard is that you all tend to fix things an expansion to late. You toss in fixes which should have come during the previous expansion, in the new expansion beta.

Being so slow to fix things is ultimately why PvP in this game is subpar, and probably always will be.
Reply Quote
90 Undead Monk
4840
Dealing with it intelligently, both in choosing when to use your own CC as well as reacting to opponent CC's, does have strong gameplay value

Unfortunately this is the issue most of us are having. There are a handful of classes that just need that opportunity to land an instant CC on you and can single-handedly follow it up with a chain of their other CC spells to keep you out of the game for what feels like an eternity.
What do I mean? How about Hammer of Justice, Repentance, Blinding Light, Turn Evil, BE Arcane Torrent, possibly more Repentance (15 second cd?)...something like that.

Hunters, druids, mages also have strong CC.

Ability to react to upcoming CC while currently CC'd? Outside of trinket and one or two cooldowns, there is none.
Reply Quote
I did a 2v2 match the other day and 2s are not a big deal but it was me and my partner against rogue/hunter...

Match starts.... both are invis obviously...

I get sapped
partner gets opened on...

(ok i can't trinket because I will eat blind and he will die anyway)...

I get hit with scatter just as the sap is about to end, then trap, I trinket the trap, then get silencing shot, then redirect kidney, and then a WS...teammate dies.

I never even get hit blind.

There is far to much CC in this game that is instant, takes little to no set up, and is unavoidable. My DK partner was dying in a full stun barrage while all this was happening to me.
Reply Quote
90 Orc Shaman
13040
Being so slow to fix things is ultimately why PvP in this game is subpar, and probably always will be.


Nah, it's ultimately because WoW is first and foremost a PvE game. PvP comes second.
Reply Quote
88 Human Rogue
16050
As our senior PvP designer Brian Holinka tweeted over the weekend, we've got some pretty solid goals for the future regarding crowd control. We do think it needs to be toned back a bit, both in the amount of CC effects available and in how frequently they can be used.

Will be getting any more details on this at blizzcon? Or a blog post or something?
Reply Quote
Guild Wars comes up with a pretty good solution.

There is lots of CC but every CC ability has a long cooldown, and a short durration (less then 3 seconds most of the time)

It makes the game more about avoiding danger and your CC's become much more valuable.
Reply Quote
90 Troll Druid
14580
Our only "plans" were to try to make an admittedly confusing system less so. Confusion about which CC effects share DR's doesn't help anyone.

Perhaps a "budget" system, much like the pre-Cata talents combined with the MOP GUI? Give players options for the CC they want, based on class and spec. Baseline CCs in the toolkit ca still exist, but things like "Improved Counterspell" or "Ring of Frost" would be acquire through "talents"

... Just because leaving at that would seem like an incomplete thought, here's the full idea:

- Complete gutting of CC in toolkits and given back as "flavor of the spec" and utility. (Giving Aff/Demo locks Fear, but giving Destro a Pet Charm and Shadowfury. Things like that)
- Each class/spec will have spells in their toolkit. These spells would be similar to Frost Nova, Nature's Grasp, Hamstring, etc. "Soft CCs" basically.
- All DPS specs get a single baseline hard CC (Polymorph, Fear, etc.). Currently spammable abilities have a 6 second cooldown. Spells like Hammer of Justice remain unchanged.
- Talent do not offer CC options (Leg Sweep, Ring of Peace, Ring of Frost, etc).
- Budget System: DPS - 6 || non-DPS - 3

budget weights and uses:
1 - Interrupt/Kick/Protection Tool - [DPS -- [Melee: 15sec/3sec success-lock] [Ranged:24sec/4sec success-lock]] [Non-DPS: Interrupt Protection -> "Inner Focus"]

2 - Improved Interrupt - [Melee: +3sec blanket on miss kick] [Ranged: +4sec blanket on miss, success-lock now 6sec] [non-DPS: Lowers the duration of Loss of Control by 20%.]

3 - Improved Control - Based on class and spec: [DPS: Lowers cooldown on some utility spells (except raid-wide cooldowns) or increases the effectiveness. Think of HoJ to FoJ...a nice CD reduction]

3 - CC Break - non-DPS only -- Does not share a cooldown with PVP Trinket: 3min cooldown (this is basically another trinket).

5 - Improved CC - DPS only - Enhances your baseline CC spell, removing the cooldown (base: 6sec) and increases the range (based on the ability itself). [Casters - Some abilities grant Interrupt Protection temporarily.] [Melee - Improves your gap-closer abilities, based on class/spec.]
Edited by Cyous on 10/14/2013 2:53 PM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Human Death Knight
6245
How about nerf wars damage and cc.........you give them high damage output, cc chains worse than a rogue, and then give them extreme survivability. But you nerf one thing and they cry until you make them even more op. (or at least pay you off as Swifty most likely did because he a baddie and can't play without 1shot macros, lol jk. But no seriously.) - Just my 2 cents
Reply Quote
90 Night Elf Priest
7425
I think the cc list is probably OK for arena and duels but it is over the top retarded for BGs. They could quadruple the dr timers in BGs and things would be good.
Reply Quote
90 Orc Hunter
19905
As our senior PvP designer Brian Holinka [url="https://twitter.com/holinka/status/389053817787928578"]tweeted[/url] over the weekend, we've got some pretty solid goals for the future regarding crowd control. We do think it needs to be toned back a bit, both in the amount of CC effects available and in how frequently they can be used.

That said, CC is still an integral part of World of Warcraft PvP. Dealing with it intelligently, both in choosing when to use your own CC as well as reacting to opponent CC's, does have strong gameplay value.

Honestly going to guess they're getting the exact opposite of what they planned from it.


Our only "plans" were to try to make an admittedly confusing system less so. Confusion about which CC effects share DR's doesn't help anyone.


I fully agree that CC should play an important role, but MoP simply took it absolutely way too far. There's so much CC and very few counters (in comparison) that one half-second mistake can cause you to be locked down for upwards of a full minute with absolutely no way to properly recover.

Regardless, you may want to take another look at that list. Not all of that information is correct.
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Death Knight
9065
I think the issue is that some classes have a huge toolbox of ccs (some that don't even share DR on the same class) and others have a huge toolbox to get out of cc other than the pvp trinket.
Reply Quote
90 Human Priest
4655
The problem of the current system is that Blizzard is forcing class comps. If you are class X, you are completely unable to go 2v2 arenas with your friend of class Y. This was not true in the past, like WOTLK and Cataclysm. Mists of Pandaria just took out all the fun of playing arenas with any class and friends you have. Obviously, there is the "Class of the season", which is a notable buff to a specific class during a specific season. Eg.: Warrior on Season 14. This leads all people, who's got a warrior alt to stop playing with their main. This should be completely unacceptable. You find 80% of arena comps in season 14 having warriors.
Reply Quote
90 Orc Warrior
10150
How about nerf wars damage and cc.........you give them high damage output, cc chains worse than a rogue, and then give them extreme survivability. But you nerf one thing and they cry until you make them even more op. (or at least pay you off as Swifty most likely did because he a baddie and can't play without 1shot macros, lol jk. But no seriously.) - Just my 2 cents


Warriors are not the only problem with this game. You could completely remove the class and the game would still be as unplayable as it is now
Reply Quote
Community Manager
10/14/2013 01:02 PMPosted by Kronosh
Regardless, you may want to take another look at that list. Not all of that information is correct.


What do you feel is incorrect? The info in that thread is taken directly from our database.
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]