Mistweaver ideas

59 Draenei Death Knight
15850
I'm not a huge fan of mistweavers. They lack the ability to control where most of their healing goes because renewing mist just kind of jumps around as it pleases and also takes time to spread out to multiple targets to really take advantage of uplift, and furthermore uplift it's self just hits people with mists on them which again you have no control over.

Furthermore Mistweavers seem to lack a lot of the basic healing tools other healers have. They don't really have a "big" heal to cast on someone like a tank or someone that just took a lot of damage. They have surging mist sure, but it's more akin to a flash heal instead of a large, more mana efficient heal. Enveloping mists really doesn't compare much in that regard either.

But anyway, here is just an idea I was kind of toying with in my mind on how I would personally like to see Mistweavers redesigned for the next expansion.

First of all, i'd make renewing mist a very large heal over time spell, and it would not jump to other targets, and have it's cooldown removed. However, you could cast it on multiple people, and for each additional person it was active on, reduce the amount that it heals for. So two people, each get 50%, 3 people each get 33%, etc. You could cast it again on the same target to increase the duration by the base amount again, so you could stack it to a higher duration if you really wanted to depending on the needs of the fight, but keep in mind the more people you do this on the less effective the healing becomes.

Uplift would be changed to be more of a smart heal more akin to circle of healing, have it just instantly heal the 5 lowest health targets within 40 yards of the monk, it no longer relates to renewing mists.

I think soothing mists would be a lot cooler if you could cast it multiple times on the same target increasing the amount it heals and mana cost. So casting it again on someone you're already channeling on would double the healing and mana cost, a third time would be triple the base healing and mana cost.

Thunder focus tea uplift would be modified to heal all raid members who are currently affected by renewing mists for the same amount as a normal uplift would, but it also clears all of your renewing mists off everyone in the raid and heals them instantly for the amount their renewing mists would've healed them if it had run it's full duration.

I also think it would be fantastic if Mistweavers went back to the old Dark Chi/Light Chi system that all monks were originally going to use. But the main benefit here is for fistweaving. All healing spells should use (or generate) light chi, where jab generates dark chi and blackout kick and tiger palm consume dark chi. Without the ability to jab for chi to use on healing abilities, the mana cost of jab could be tuned back down to a reasonable level and allow fist weaving to survive better for longer periods without it just completing wrecking a monk's mana supply. Priests can atonement heal indefinitely without going oom, kinda doesn't make sense that monks can't punch and kick anymore because they run out of mana. Or perhaps instead of the dark chi/light chi monks originally had, maybe mistweavers could maintain an energy bar and chi for their fist weaving related activities, and use mana and some other secondary resource for healing. I've always felt chi was kind of awkward for healing as a mistweaver anyway because you generate it so fast and can hold so little of it you basically have to just burn it as you get it instead of being able to really store it up.

But anyway, just some thoughts, I don't expect much positive reception on the forums. :P
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90 Human Monk
12915
As a mistweaver I hate all your ideas.
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90 Night Elf Monk
3650
While the RNG nature of Renewing Mists is a bit annoying, I like the synergy it has with Uplift. It requires much more forethought and active thinking to keep your ReMs spread before you need to smash Uplift, whereas converting it to a lowest-health target ability has the potential to become a bit too strong.
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90 Troll Monk
10435
I'm kinda torn. I might just be bad at this class but I am really struggling to pull decent hps with rem/uplift in 25m. Rarely hitting more than 90k and I'm @ 60% overhealing. I am trying really hard but I just can't make healing effective with rem/uplift. Compared to eflorenesce, healing rain, light of dawn it just feels weak.
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90 Night Elf Monk
3650
I'm kinda torn. I might just be bad at this class but I am really struggling to pull decent hps with rem/uplift in 25m. Rarely hitting more than 90k and I'm @ 60% overhealing. I am trying really hard but I just can't make healing effective with rem/uplift. Compared to eflorenesce, healing rain, light of dawn it just feels weak.


Most HoT classes, as a whole, will do a lot of overhealing. Espeically Monks, considering that ReM hangs out on targets, and sometimes we have to throw out a few unnecessary heals just to get rid of chi.

Here are some things that *may* help your numbers.
- Use TFT in anticipation of big damage hits, it's sometimes a bit hard to time it correctly, but generally 10ish seconds before is enough (assuming you fire off an Uplift right after using it). From there, you can quickly fill your Chi bar and do the following:
- Uplift x2
- ReM + Expel Harm
- Uplift
- Chi Brew x2
- Uplift x2
(steps not necessarily in order, but that's the general idea)

Also, I've found that doing spot-healing can be helpful in times of low damage, when ReM isn't necessarily doing much healing itself. Chi Torpedo can also be an interesting tool to use when the raid's stacked, though a bit difficult to set yourself up to do at times. Using Chi Burst as a cooldown also provides a small boost.
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90 Undead Monk
13535
I'm kinda torn. I might just be bad at this class but I am really struggling to pull decent hps with rem/uplift in 25m. Rarely hitting more than 90k and I'm @ 60% overhealing. I am trying really hard but I just can't make healing effective with rem/uplift. Compared to eflorenesce, healing rain, light of dawn it just feels weak.


You've already mentioned in other threads that your other healers have 25 or so ilvls on you.

So yeah.
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90 Night Elf Druid
9210
10/15/2013 12:09 AMPosted by Petstuff
Furthermore Mistweavers seem to lack a lot of the basic healing tools other healers have. They don't really have a "big" heal to cast on someone like a tank or someone that just took a lot of damage. They have surging mist sure, but it's more akin to a flash heal instead of a large, more mana efficient heal. Enveloping mists really doesn't compare much in that regard either.


Enveloping Mist should have been 2 chi instead of 3, it's really not good enough to be that expensive.
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90 Troll Mage
18190
Sorry for the long post, but I just want to comment.

It sounds to me as if you are wanting more single target focused healing instead of AOE, which I can understand because Surging Mists by itself (or even with Soothing Mist) seems to be lacking. However, paired with TFT, I think Surging Mist + Soothing Mist is a pretty decent combo.

10/15/2013 12:09 AMPosted by Petstuff
First of all, i'd make renewing mist a very large heal over time spell, and it would not jump to other targets, and have it's cooldown removed. However, you could cast it on multiple people, and for each additional person it was active on, reduce the amount that it heals for. So two people, each get 50%, 3 people each get 33%, etc. You could cast it again on the same target to increase the duration by the base amount again, so you could stack it to a higher duration if you really wanted to depending on the needs of the fight, but keep in mind the more people you do this on the less effective the healing becomes.


This sounds like a Druid's Rejuvenation spell with a penalty. It would give you more control and focused heals, yes, but you lose the AOE aspect of the the heal if you can only put it on so many people at a time due to the penalty. As for adding to the duration of the HoT, Blizzard actually did this on the beta and realized it didn't work, unless you took away the ability to refresh the buff with TFT. Otherwise, you could keep the Renewing Mists up 100% of the time and pad the meters like woah.

My main concern with adding the duration thing to Renewing Mists would be the mana cost if the ability fell off the target for whatever reason. Sounds a bit like a skewed version of Lifebloom without the benefit of being able to switch that healing to another target like a Druid can.

Uplift would be changed to be more of a smart heal more akin to circle of healing, have it just instantly heal the 5 lowest health targets within 40 yards of the monk, it no longer relates to renewing mists.


They would have either implement a cooldown on Uplift or up the Chi cost if this was going to be the case. It's pretty easy for me to build up two Chi and I can easily see this becoming overpowered, much like Revival, which had to be nerfed.

I think soothing mists would be a lot cooler if you could cast it multiple times on the same target increasing the amount it heals and mana cost. So casting it again on someone you're already channeling on would double the healing and mana cost, a third time would be triple the base healing and mana cost.


Here's the problem I foresee with this. I'm on a fight where I'm casting Soothing Mists on the tank, but suddenly I have to move. Ok, I move, but now I'm experiencing a penalty on the tank who is taking the same amount of damage as before, so I'm now overhealing with twice the mana cost. It seems like an all right scenario with the Legendary cloak, but we aren't going to have it next expansion to take advantage of that overhealing.

Thunder focus tea uplift would be modified to heal all raid members who are currently affected by renewing mists for the same amount as a normal uplift would, but it also clears all of your renewing mists off everyone in the raid and heals them instantly for the amount their renewing mists would've healed them if it had run it's full duration.


This is actually an interesting idea that I hadn't thought of, but sounds a lot like the way Swiftmend used to work where it consumed your Rejuvenation and Regrowth to increase the healing. Assuming we are talking about including the Renewing Mists changes you stated above, I'm not sure if I would want to sacrifice a long duration on a Renewing Mists buff just for some extra healing.

To touch on your idea about Fistweaving, I agree and wish they would make the playstyle more appealing. However, it's tied heavily into our statue (which apparently no one wants to stand near) and our DPS output. Too strong of a DPS output and raid leaders will start bringing Mistweavers over other classes due to the fact they are strong healers and DPS.

Overall and TLDR: It really sounds like you want us to become more like Druids. Which isn't surprising considering you have a decently geared Resto Druid :P
Edited by Febreeze on 10/15/2013 8:29 PM PDT
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90 Troll Monk
10435
I like some of the ideas. I think while mistweaver is unique its also hurting itself with its uniqueness. Maintain rem/uplift for aoe healing is terrible. It goes against everything I was taught to do as a healer. Putting hots on full health people just so you can AoE heal. Half of which will also goto overhealing because the hot jumps randomly.

Better ways to do aoe healing?

ReM moves 3 times like before, but instead of uplift it puts a circle around each target doing aoe ground healing ala eflorenesce/healing rain/sanctuary. CD would need to be increased.

Chi burst has a chi cost and no cd, would have to be slightly less powerful than it currently is.

Zen Sphere can be made into a bubble area like the priest shield/dk amz. Inside the sphere you are healed for X every sec.

Our single target healing needs a buff, env mist is a waste of chi.

I enjoy just about everything about this class but its aoe healing. Every other class has healing spells for aoe healing. We have a spell rotation to accomplish aoe healing which either results in good healing or a buttload of overhealing
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90 Tauren Druid
8630
IMO ALL MW monk ideas need to be thrown out the window until you fix; Spirit/MM/Mana tea. (and any such interactions via meta gem etc)

They're gamebreaking issues. The way healers have been balanced is based on having some need for spirit. Monks have none. My monk has no HLG or legendary meta, and still 7k spirit is enough to carry my 525ilvl to thok. (alt very casual group) That's insane.

Until you balance this fact, I can see MW throughput being lower. And quite frankly, it's pretty garbage right now. Fix spirit/regen broken mechanics, then fix throughput.

And oh, don't get me started on the stupid full baked idea blizzard likes to call MW monk mastery.
Edited by Tonydanza on 10/17/2013 12:08 AM PDT
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90 Tauren Druid
8630
Chi burst has a chi cost and no cd, would have to be slightly less powerful than it currently is.


I lol'd

"slightly less"

Do you know how lol strong it is currently? In stacked raid situations, it's a frigging revival.

(Same problem with Divine Star btw. Stupid broken stacked mechanics this tier, along with HR and Efflo)
Edited by Tonydanza on 10/17/2013 12:10 AM PDT
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90 Troll Monk
10435
Mine crits for about 200k, its a strong cd. It's nerf would depend on how easily you.could chain them.

Numbers can be changed at any time. These are just my thoughts.
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90 Pandaren Monk
10320
No to all of the above, just no.

I don't want to be a druid ever.

MW Monk Mana Regen this patch also is not as broken as before, whilst in T15 we could easily finish a fight above 50% mana (only getting rid of it through Surg. spam at end of fight) now we are reliant on our mana tea constantly throughout the fight to bring us back up from being OOM through SCK. Not that we don't still have the best mana regen toolkit for heals in game but it's just slightly less broken now.
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90 Pandaren Monk
10320
@Langtao - You're gearing is very wrong and could be the root of some of your issues. Starting from the gloves you don't have enchanted and the gems you have for spirit. Your Crit and Haste are both lower than desireable although I'm unsure as to how much more you could gain atm with proper itemization.

Overall though it looks like you just have a straight up gear issue, by which I mean you don't have the gear you need to support more of what you want.

Also for the Overhealing of Uplift, this can be minimized with smart RnM spread (tank1, tank2, Low Health Raider).

MW Monk Tank healing as well is not as bad as people think, it may not be the best in the game but we can still hold our own. EnM gives a healing bonus to SooM making spamming the ability very effective and the always true Oh !@#$ heal of Surging Mist which in my current gear can crit for 300k as well as EnM healing for 32k and criting fro 67k per tick.

MW Monk is a little harder to play than most other healing classes given the thought that has to go into most of the things we do, but all done well you'll be able to blow other healers up(except for druids of course, thanks efflo :P)
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90 Troll Monk
10435
Yea I'm thinking about giving up on the class lately. I just don't understand the gearing,rotations ect. I can't seem to make it work effectively. I don't mind a challenge but I feel like I'm completely missing the mark on healing with this class.
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90 Gnome Monk
7430
10/15/2013 05:57 PMPosted by Rexoss
Furthermore Mistweavers seem to lack a lot of the basic healing tools other healers have. They don't really have a "big" heal to cast on someone like a tank or someone that just took a lot of damage. They have surging mist sure, but it's more akin to a flash heal instead of a large, more mana efficient heal. Enveloping mists really doesn't compare much in that regard either.


Enveloping Mist should have been 2 chi instead of 3, it's really not good enough to be that expensive.


It was fine until it got a 30% nerf in 5.1 (I think, whenever the 50% haste buff got added). I understand why there was a nerf but it was way too large.
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90 Pandaren Monk
15125
EnM is fine. It was nerfed because it was extremely powerful.

Ticking for 70k @500 ilvl was way to high.
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90 Night Elf Druid
12080
10/15/2013 12:09 AMPosted by Petstuff
I also think it would be fantastic if Mistweavers went back to the old Dark Chi/Light Chi system that all monks were originally going to use. But the main benefit here is for fistweaving. All healing spells should use (or generate) light chi, where jab generates dark chi and blackout kick and tiger palm consume dark chi. Without the ability to jab for chi to use on healing abilities, the mana cost of jab could be tuned back down to a reasonable level and allow fist weaving to survive better for longer periods without it just completing wrecking a monk's mana supply. Priests can atonement heal indefinitely without going oom, kinda doesn't make sense that monks can't punch and kick anymore because they run out of mana.


Ignoring everything else, I would kind of love this. I think fistweaving would feel even more fluid, though perhaps they'd need to tone down its damage. I'm sure there's something about the concept that I'm not considering.

My main gripe - my only gripe, really - with MW is that soothing mist is such a strange mechanic. If I have to deal with raid damage that can't be addressed by fistweaving, I really flounder. Turreting around spamming soothing mist on people and letting it tick once or twice for spot healing/RNG chi generation feels incredibly awkward. Is there some other way that I'm supposed to be generating chi for uplifts?
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90 Pandaren Monk
LA
17075
EnM is fine. It was nerfed because it was extremely powerful.

Ticking for 70k @500 ilvl was way to high.
I wish it was more front-loaded, make it tick faster at the start and then taper off.

Until you balance this fact, I can see MW throughput being lower. And quite frankly, it's pretty garbage right now. Fix spirit/regen broken mechanics, then fix throughput.
Yea we should totally have a class redesign instead of just making us competitive in 25s and rebuilding next expansion.
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90 Pandaren Priest
8295
EnM is fine. It was nerfed because it was extremely powerful.

Ticking for 70k @500 ilvl was way to high.


alliance. i am appalled.
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