Please reconsider raid wall version 2

85 Blood Elf Priest
11700
The new power word barrier is far too powerful and is OP to the point of being required for certain encounters. This is the second coming of raid wall, which when used properly will make encounters trivial, or will make encounters unnecessarily difficult without. In addition, I want to be holy come Cata, which will mean that my offspec will need to be disc for X number of fights because not doing so would be difficult and waste my fellow guild member's time.

Suggestions on how to make it better. Lower the damage reduction by the number of people in it, or apply the damage reduction to the X lowest health people where X is a small number.

For reference, the latest patch note from beta.
Power Word: Barrier duration reduced to 10 sec, down from 25 sec. No longer absorbs a given amount of damage, now reduces all damage done to friendly targets by 30%. While within the barrier, spellcasting will not be interrupted by damage.
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85 Human Priest
7735
i think what you mean to say is that due to this change disc priests will actually now be somewhat useful for raid encounters for 10 seconds every 1 minute and 50 seconds. you'll be able to stay holy, don't worry.

edit: not to say that i think it's a great change or anything but it's not going to be the deciding factor on which spec your guild expects you to play.
Edited by Grammykins on 11/10/2010 9:14 PM PST
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85 Human Priest
7005
I'm not quite sure what there is to complain about. The change to PW:Barrier makes it infinitely more powerful against huge, predictable raid damage. As it stands, I'm not a huge fan of huge, predictable raid damage.
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100 Troll Priest
10435
10 seconds every two minutes isn't much to worry about unless we're gonna see lots of stupid gimmick fights.

However, I wouldn't be surprised to see a damage absorption cap return in another patch (so that it matches the DK Anti-Magic Zone spell).
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100 Human Paladin
11845
The op raises a very serious issue, the new Power Word: Barrier is far to strong. It will now be mandatory to bring a Disc Priest to every single raid, perhaps even stack them in difficult encounters.

Zaroua from Premonition raised this issue at the start of the Beta testing, all raid cooldowns have to go. Just look at Aura Mastery and Divine Sacrifice and how they were abused throughought the entire Wrath expansion, entire boss strats where designed around these cooldowns, you had to have them in your raid to make the strat work.

In Cataclysm the gaol is to be able to bring any healer, giving Disc Priests a game changing ability, (and it really is game changing, that 30% reduction will make or break hard mode progression) gives other healers a significant disadvantage.

To fix this i think they will need to implement a debuff that is placed on the entire raid so you can only use the cooldown once every 2minutes, or however long the cooldown on PW:Barrier is.
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90 Human Paladin
10440
PW: Barrier is fine because it requires the raid to be in a specific area for it to be fully effective. It'll be great on those split damage mechanics and not so great on many other mechanics. This is Disc Priest's way to contributing to blanket raid healing, and it's strong because it's got a hefty cooldown.
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80 Troll Rogue
9245
Power word barrier would be best in a situation where it healed people under the barrier while absorbing damage and reducing damage taken. Somewhere around a 3k / 3 sec hot at lvl 80 / 7k absorb / 15% reduced damage for 12 seconds on a 1.5 min cd.

The way they keep jumping its mechanics around so abruptly is troubling, especially when they dont want to address how weak penance is right now.
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80 Human Priest
6665
I love how people who go for Realm Firsts HM's think the game revolves around them. You guys are like an entire expansion behind the power curve. There aren't 12m people who play the way you do, but there are 12m people who pay the same subscription.

Strats are always built around abilities, that by definition is how you make one. All good abilities are game changing in a way. When to Lust/Hero, is a classic example. There is nothing new here.

What is certain is though that Disc Priests green numbers are much smaller than the 4 other specs of healers. Providing damage mitigation is what they do. There is no way the vast majority of WoW guilds will be able to abuse that ability or stack Disc priests. Disc needs more throughput, and the redesigned PW:B is a step in the right direction.
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85 Goblin Shaman
2665
Raid wall hasn't gone away for pallies - this fits pretty well with buffs being homogenised.


raid wall being brought by a healer and being brought by a tank are completely different things.
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100 Dwarf Paladin
21080
I'm not quite sure what there is to complain about. The change to PW:Barrier makes it infinitely more powerful against huge, predictable raid damage. As it stands, I'm not a huge fan of huge, predictable raid damage.


There's a lot of reasons as to why abilities like new PW:Barrier and Aura Mastery are hated.

Hint: Blizzard ends up designing encounters around them. See Infest on H LK25 early %s or Freya - use a raid-wide cooldown here or your raid wipes.

That's not to say that PW:Barrier did not need buffing or re-designing. They just went the wrong route with it. They should put that spell and Aura Mastery back on the table for revamping.
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100 Night Elf Priest
17940
Then of course, your raid gets stuck bringing the mandatory x amount of Paladins or Disc Priests. And it squeezes out bringing other healers/specs. Namely, the OP wants to play Holy/Shadow and not be forced to play Holy/Disc because Disc will be superior on any fights requiring Power Word: Barrier.
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85 Worgen Druid
4235
Namely, the OP wants to play Holy/Shadow and not be forced to play Holy/Disc because Disc will be superior on any fights requiring Power Word: Barrier.


and disc will still be inferior on any fight not requiring pwb? this isn't the fix to disc, but it's not a bad change.
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100 Dwarf Paladin
21080
Namely, the OP wants to play Holy/Shadow and not be forced to play Holy/Disc because Disc will be superior on any fights requiring Power Word: Barrier.


and disc will still be inferior on any fight not requiring pwb? this isn't the fix to disc, but it's not a bad change.


I would much rather prefer discipline changed so that they are desired without a gimmick like a raid wall.

The PW:B change is simply a bandaid, like 100% overheal transfer Beacon in Wrath. It's not really a good change, but it makes your class situationally very overpowered.
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85 Human Priest
7735
I would much rather prefer discipline changed so that they are desired without a gimmick like a raid wall.


indeed.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
12135
In case you haven't noticed, every healer has an infinite-target AE heal that's very powerful if you can get everyone to stand in the same spot. Disc's is significantly stronger in that it doesn't diminish past 6 targets and scales with the incoming damage, but also has a significantly longer cooldown. So stacking discs and rotating barriers won't trivialize AE damage vs. a 'normal' comp, because synchronized efflo/sanc/radiance/healing rain on top of the limited-target AE heals that those specs bring won't be all that inferior (and in fact might frequently be superior depending on the nature of the damage) to a single barrier.
Edited by Suzushiiro on 11/11/2010 12:50 PM PST
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100 Dwarf Paladin
21080
Significantly stronger but significantly longer cooldown reminds me of another gimmick that was recently removed from the paladin class: being overly amazing at blanket AoE healing bursts but craptastic at any other form of raid damage.

The only difference being that 30% damage reduction is going to scale considerably better than anything else. But hey, that just makes it into a stronger pre-nerf Holy Radiance with an even longer cooldown (i.e., even more of an extreme gimmick).

Not to mention that against elemental damage, holy paladins have a tool that's nearly as powerful, especially against burst that happens with a single spell or situations where a raid cannot stack up on one location. Except, unlike disc priests, holy paladins actually have their own tools to hold against other non-gimmicky forms of damage as well, so raids would probably be more likely to stack holy paladins in place of disc priest on said gimmick encounters.

Aura Mastery and PW:B definitely need revamping in the homogeneous Cataclysm healing environment; they'll cause problems down the line otherwise, especially if they plan to make 10-man and 25-mans "equal" difficulty.
Edited by Eloderung on 11/11/2010 1:19 PM PST
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84 Human Priest
6510
Cata further homogenizes raid buffs so that we can "bring the player, not the class." But raid wall cooldowns are a violent push in the other direction, and not just for world-first hardmode groups--if there is any group progressing against a fight/mechanic (aoe burst damage) where raid wall is applicable, groups will emphasize Prot Paladins and Disc Priests inappropriately.

Remember Disc Bubbles + HM Infest? Yes, of course groups can succeed without the OP ability at hand, but by far, most groups will find a way to bring them.

This is not what we want. We want discipline to be viable, yes; and right now that requires a huge hand out like a blatantly OP PW:Barrier. But Raid Wall cooldowns are the wrong direction for this game, and we'll hear about all the players that believe they're sitting out while their guild stacks this cooldown for specific content if it goes live.
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94 Blood Elf Paladin
7475
Aura Mastery and PW:B definitely need revamping in the homogeneous Cataclysm healing environment; they'll cause problems down the line otherwise, especially if they plan to make 10-man and 25-mans "equal" difficulty.

Yeah. I can't wait for the first Heroic Twins fight that encourages Disc priest / Holy paladin stacking!
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