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So you think it is completely, fair, sensible, and reasonable that a tank should be nigh-defenseless against every dps or healer class/spec?
Tanks aren't defenseless. If you get jumped questing by someone ready to pop everything, you do what every person does - escape, kill or die trying one the former.
Again, have you actually bothered trying to PvP or are you just flailing about because you got ganked once and have no idea what other classes even do now?
Since when did you go around caring about PvP anyway?
Edited by Slashlove on 11/13/2010 8:52 AM PST
Fean, I'm not sure that's the right avenue of approach.
I mean, yes, we did lose *something* when we lost passive damage, but I don't think that that's the one and only way to give Prot specs a fighting chance in PvP.
And I'm pretty sure they didn't remove passive damage for PvP reasons, either.
Ret aura still exists.
And FYI, there's a CRAFTABLE set of basic PvP gear that you can wear at 85. Anyone can acquire it with minimal effort and cost.
But really, you don't need PvP gear to beat melee DPS. You just have to actually use abilities instead of letting them kill themselves on you. I don't seem to have much problem with melee DPS and I'm not the greatest PvPer in the world at all.
What did you used to do if another tank attempted to gank you?
A vast majority of a melee DPSs hits will be dodged, blocked, parried, or miss. Try and keep your front to them. When all is said and done, you probably can do similar damage to them that they can do to you. Plus your damage is pretty consistent since it's holy.
To be fair, some would consider Prot PVP to be better than Ret PVP as of now. Of course, that might just be a reflection on how eye-gougingly lousy Ret PVP is at the moment, but we do have a non-trivial amount of control and burst available to us.
And, as I said before, Prot Warrior PVP was in a really good place and it had (almost) nothing to do with passive damage.
Then you're not a tank: you're dps'ing with a tank spec.
Welcome to PvP. Since for freaking ever.
I was standing there because I was stunned and unable to do anything about it
Bubble, since you're not a useful race so you don't have a Human Racial handy. Wear a PvP trinket before you flag next time.
I will not keep an entire set of PvP gear in my bags on the off-chance that I see a rogue in Cata-WG while farming ore. Nor should I have to. Nor should the rogue have to, for that matter. Resil gear should be solely and wholly for organized Arena PvP.
PvP gear is for all kinds of PvP, including Wintergrasp, Tol Barad, battlegrounds whatever. If you choose not to partake in PvP, you can just farm ore outside a PvP zone.
Edited by Slashlove on 11/13/2010 9:41 AM PST
Control? BURST?!!? WTF kind of "control" and "burst" does a prot paladin have?!!? We have one stun on a long cd. We can re-gimp our shield with the daze, I suppose. No real interrupt. One attack that does non-pathetic damage on a 15-second cd. One attack with reasonable damage that requires 3 holy rogue combo-points and we have to be standing right on top of them. No fear-break. No gap closer. No way to get to melee range and stay there.
Hammer of Justice as a stun, Avenger's Shield as silence+burst and Shield of the Righteous as burst (albeit with a ramp-up) is precisely the reasons why some would consider Prot PVP to be better than Ret PVP (again, it is a matter of relativity)
Our stun is on a shorter cooldown than Ret, Silence is proactive as opposed to Rebuke being reactive, and requiring 3 HoPo for SHOR isn't all that different from a Ret needing 3 HoPo for Templar's Verdict.
Depending on how lucky you are with Grand Crusader procs, fights against a caster are usually winnable.
EDIT: I suppose I should further qualify that neither of the two Holy / Ret Paladin specs have a fear break, neither of them can slow their targets and neither of them have a means of staying in melee range with their target. Prot still has Dazing Shield at the very least.
Edited by Prinsesa on 11/13/2010 9:45 AM PST
I tanked in PvP bg all the time. To get the honor marks for the Merciless Gladiator's Gavel I tanked all of BC with, I almost exclusively ran Alterac Valley. Ran straight for the dorf chick and tanked her, then ran straight for the dorf general and tanked him. Pretty much ignored the rabble fighting in the roads when I could.
Welcome to PvP then. Still since for freaking ever.
Edited by Slashlove on 11/13/2010 9:44 AM PST
85 Tauren Warrior
1) I hear threat is an essential element of PvP.
I hear trinkets and resil are even more essential, but you apparently refuse to use them.
2) I was standing there because I was stunned and unable to do anything about it, and without the damage done during that stun, a prot spec is incapable of dealing enough damage to "catch up" to the damage taken.
Without a trinket, and without a resil, your passive damage is not going to matter. Mages will kill you in a deep freeze, Moonkins will moonfire you, rogues will stun lock, Arms will blow you up, etc. You lack mitigation, you lack the tools to deal with CC. PvP without those things largely turns into a game of "Whoever got the jump". That's just how it is.
3) You realize name-calling is a violation of the ToS? In any case, I will not keep an entire set of PvP gear in my bags on the off-chance that I see a rogue in Cata-WG while farming ore. Nor should I have to. Nor should the rogue have to, for that matter. Resil gear should be solely and wholly for organized Arena PvP.
You are arrogant, and you are stubborn. That's a fairly accurate description of you. But feel free to report me.
And if you won't do that, you're going to die. Because that's how PvP works. You need resil to deal with the damage output. Reality does not conform with how you think pvp 'should' work.
4) Then you're not a tank: you're dps'ing with a tank spec.
Since Players don't have aggro tables, you are correct. But I'm not dpsing. I'm pvping. Because there's more to PvP than just damage.
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