4.01 holy pally damage

49 Night Elf Rogue
Dueled a holy pally friend today. We were having fun with testing out elemental burst because he thought he could heal through it.

Well pve gear didn't last long more than 10 seconds, and his pvp gear took me awhile to drain his mana, but I ended with a lucky string of crits/procs and 44k burst.

Then we decided to duel with him actually fighting back/dispelling FlS etc. I don't have any pvp gear, and I wasn't really taking him seriously. I started opening up on him building some charges for Fulmination and that's when he started attacking. Didn't realize it but I was at ~40% health and then stopped to heal. Never got the heals off and died. Was kind of shocked, but thought it was because I hadn't been paying attention.

We reduel and he ends up running me oom as elemental. All he did was spam exorcism and holy shock on me with the occasional stun to try to finish me. Eventually he ran me oom and I couldn't keep up. He didn't even use a 10th of his mana doing that. Literally refreshing water shield was hard to do without dying and trying to get in wind shears/grounding totems.

So then we just screw around as me in my resto pve gear and him in pvp gear. I figured it would go no where, and it while he could do some damage not much would happen. I'm doing some pro LB spam with LvB every now and then basically doing nothing. He finally started trying with stuns, and avenging wrath. If I had ES up he would drop me to 20% health or so. With riptide and/or earthliving I would hang around 25-30%. Sometimes less sometimes more depending on crits etc. He never killed me but his burst was insane as a holy pally.

So I started looking over talents of holy paladins:
20% more holy shock/exorcism damage through talents
denounce makes exorcism cost like 200 mana and gives a holy shock 50/50 chance of making the next exorcism free and instant
conviction gives a stacking buff for damage and healing

Add that in with exorcism being like a 1.5 second (before haste/talents). He was hitting me for 4-5k non-crit.

Sure I don't have any PvP gear right now, so if I did have it the damage would of been less, but I'm sure I still would of lost in the end as elemental, and resto would of went no where (but I lock pvp) but seriously wtf? Holy paladin damage is off the charts. Even in pvp gear he would of been able to do some serious damage and no healing spec should be able to do what a holy paladin can do right now.

I can just imagine at 85 with a holy pally partner. They won't just help apply a little damage to a stunned low health opponent they will be closer to a nuke.
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49 Night Elf Rogue

Always a good way to check PvP balance.

It doesn't change the fact that holy damage is very high from a healer standpoint. You can spam a 5k damage dealing spell nonstop at around 1-1.5 seconds depending on gear for little cost and have a chance to get an instant one from time to time. With avenging wrath and a stun you can get around 4-5 casts off with +20% damage. That's a good 20k with no crits. Sure if I had resilience (say 30%) it would about 14k or so. but if I was say rocking relentless or wrathful I would probably be at around half health. Why should a healer be able to do that amount of damage in 6 seconds?\

That's not even including avenging wrath btw. With avenging wrath it would of been closer to 20k non-crit WITH resilience.

get in wind shears
How do you struggle to "get in" a Wind Shear? It's instant and off the GCD.

Well I was mixing grounding/wind shear in there. Just got a little overwhelming trying to do dps, heal, and interrupt all at the same time.

So, he could've had anywhere from 900 or so resil (not a full PvP set, or perhaps some PvP items from a tier or two ago) to 1400 or more resil (Wrathful, more or less), while you had 0 resil. I mean, it's not that resil reduces damage taken from players, or that it's been buffed so that anyone can easily sit at 50% DR, or anything.

If I remember right he's mostly relentless with wrathful weapon and wrathful off sets and like 2 wrathful pieces.


He never killed me as resto but he got DAMN close. I was sitting with 3-4k health at times.

Shouldn't make any difference, right? Nah.

I'm not too terribly upset about being beaten as a dps vs a healer. It's the fact that even in a resto spec/set I had trouble keeping myself alive against a PvP geared HEALER. PvP gear is supposed to be a trade off of surv over damage in the first place, and he's a healer. A healer isn't supposed to be able to do much damage in PvP. In clutch arena fights a healer will sometimes throw some damage down on a player they have at low health/stunned. I should be able to, as a pve resto shaman (in icc25 heroic gear) be able to laugh at his pvp geared holy damage.

Excuse me? Are you forgetting your little bit of

44k burst

as Elemental? And this is with him in PvP gear and you just nuking in PvE gear (oh wait, resil doesn't matter, your anecdote is perfectly valid).

The only reason I got that burst off was because he just tried to heal through it. No attacking, not even dispelling FlS. When he fought back even if I had a million health and all the resilience I wanted I could never have done that amount of burst because I never would of gotten to 9 stacks of lightning shield.

While I do agree that fulmination damage is a bit absurd at this level anyone fighting an elemental shaman doesn't have to deal with it if they don't let him turret and build stacks.
Edited by Kaitsu on 11/13/2010 6:46 PM PST
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