Fuse Titan's Grip with Single-Minded Fury?

I don't see why these have to be separate talents. They could just combine them into one talent, "Titan's Grip," with a two-part tooltip.

This is a little more out there, but it would be cool if SMF increased all damage with 1hers by 15% instead of increasing damage by 15% while dual-wielding 1hers. It would probably still be suboptimal, but this would allow warriors to reasonably use a two-hander MH and a one-hander OH if you get unlucky with weapon drops.
Edited by Nucleararms on 11/14/2010 7:22 AM PST
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85 Tauren Paladin
9805
i say, if you want both, spend a talent point in both, or use one spec for SMF and your other spec for TG. I like the separation.
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85 Tauren Warrior
8120
why do you like it? Because as it stands the only interesting thing about it is having to respec based on your weapons. They removed all the weapon mastery skills with the new trees but then stuck this crap in. It's just weird.
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87 Orc Warrior
OP
6475
i say, if you want both, spend a talent point in both, or use one spec for SMF and your other spec for TG. I like the separation.


anyone who specs both is beyond terrible
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85 Tauren Paladin
9805
i say, if you want both, spend a talent point in both, or use one spec for SMF and your other spec for TG. I like the separation.


anyone who specs both is beyond terrible


Making blanket statements like that isn't helpful to anyone. I could just as easily say that anyone who doesn't just dual spec into TG and SMF is beyond terrible. Neither statement is necessarily true or false.

What would they be giving up? Deep Wounds? Incite is more valuable, imo, than Deep Wounds, especially with a 5% crit chance baseline at 85 (by all reports); I think it's okay to give up a couple of points in that talent. It's not like you aren't wasting points in Field Dressing or Blitz to get Deep Wounds anyway. Or you could go the other way and give up two points in Incite for 3/3 Deep Wounds.

You can say Field Dressing is useful, but then I'll tell you to stop standing in fire; and Blitz is pretty self-explanatory. But hey, like I said, you can just dual-spec into TG.

I like the differences; I like the price you have to pay in order to want to take my SMF weapons, or if I want to take TG weapons. What do weapon skills and doing away with them have to do with SMF and TG? None that I can think of.

I think it's a meaningful choice right now, which is evidenced by this very thread. I think those are few and far between right now, and in this case, I like the choice.
Edited by Ashrial on 11/14/2010 9:22 PM PST
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1 Draenei Hunter
0
I think it's a meaningful choice right now


In what way is it a meaningful choice?
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85 Tauren Warrior
8120
50 gold is not a meaningful choice.

What do weapon skills and doing away with them have to do with SMF and TG? None that I can think of.


What do talents that were only useful if you have the specific weapon equipped have to do with SMF and TG? Hard to say...
Edited by Mooclane on 11/14/2010 9:28 PM PST
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85 Tauren Paladin
9805
If you want to go that route, neither is the selecting your class. Why not just make them all 1 class with 3 trees (tank, dps, heal) so we can all be the same?

I think the bigger issue is the trivialization of spec rather than TG or SMF needing to be changed. What would you suggest? 5,000g to change spec? 10,000g? Name a number.


In what way is it a meaningful choice?

The same way that choosing your spec is a meaningful choice.
Edited by Ashrial on 11/14/2010 9:31 PM PST
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90 Night Elf Warrior
16175
Its not really a "meaningful choice"

People that are min/maxing will just spec one or the other based on what weapons they have, assuming that the two skills are fairly equitable and that one doesn't beat the other even if you have better weapons for the other one. The weapons someone has is mostly a matter of luck and competition.

They weren't referring to weapon skills. They were referring to weapon specs. Axe spec, mace spec, sword spec. Those sorts of talents that gave you a bonus for using a certain weapon. They got rid of those, but SMF and TG are almost the same thing in that regard. Is a talent that says "put your points here if you have an axe" and a talent that says "put your points here if you have a mace" a meaningful choice? Only if you have a mace and axes of similar quality, but at that points its just a matter if one talent is stronger than the other. Generally dps talents aren't meaningful choices because you can usually math one out to beat the other. Most of the choice they are trying to cultivate is between utility type talents.

Deep wounds will still be one of our best talents despite overall lower crit rates. (we've always had 5% base crit though). It doesn't really matter though, because one point in deep wounds (or incite) is clearly better than a point in SMF or TG when you aren't using the correct weapons to get the bonuses. The same way people didn't spec axe spec AND mace spec, they chose the one for the weapons they had. (there was some funkiness with rogues using different weapons on each hand at some points, but that isn't an option with TG and SMF anyway)

Respeccing isn't very expensive, and except maybe when leveling, you generally won't change weapons very often, but I still don't really see why they are separate talents.
Edited by Asthas on 11/14/2010 9:40 PM PST
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85 Tauren Warrior
8120
Why do I need to name a number? I see no issue with the choice to respec, I see an issue with TG and SMF being 2 talents for no good reason.

And Your spec defines how you play. TG and SMF define what weapons you play with. Weapons are not particularly meaningful.
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85 Night Elf Druid
0
This is more of a pet peeve, but having exactly one tree with two "pinnacle" talents is awkward, especially when they are simply passive bonuses and could easily be merged.
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85 Tauren Paladin
9805

And Your spec defines how you play. TG and SMF define what weapons you play with.


TG and SMF change the way I play; SMF is much faster, smaller hits; TG is slower, larger hits. They feel very different, which is pretty much what you say they should be.


In fact, I dislike how TG plays/feels, especially compared to SMF.
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85 Tauren Warrior
8120
You spec 98% the same way, your rotation is the same, and for most people it'll come down to whatever weapons they happen to have (assuming TG doesn't blow SMF out of the water).
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1 Draenei Hunter
0
[quote]TG and SMF change the way I play


Not really. The talents are 99% aesthetic. I'm very, very glad the option is there for thematic purposes, but don't make the choice out to be more than it is.
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90 Human Warrior
13325
i say, if you want both, spend a talent point in both, or use one spec for SMF and your other spec for TG. I like the separation.


anyone who specs both is beyond terrible


To be fair, it may be a dps increase to spec both, and use a weapon swap macro to use SMF during execute phase, when you get rid of any weapon based skills in your rotation, and just spam execute for maximum effect, since SMF hits harder with all AP based attacks.


Now would that beat out the extra point in incite or deep wounds? Probably not. But people have done stranger things.





That said I would like to see them get rolled together. Like others have said, 50g isn't a choice, and speccing both is dubious at best.
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85 Tauren Paladin
9805
[quote]TG and SMF change the way I play


Not really. The talents are 99% aesthetic. I'm very, very glad the option is there for thematic purposes, but don't make the choice out to be more than it is.


Now you're telling me that it doesn't change the way I play? That is rather condescending of you. Let me say it again for you, SMF changes the way I play my Warrior versus how it feels to play TG. You can refute that all you want, but that doesn't make it untrue. :)

Are you now going to tell me that I don't have Shadowmourne on this character? Or that I don't live where I live?

I can only speak from my own perspective and experiences, same for you. You're free to think and express whatever you want, even to disagree with me, but you're not going to change the fact that for me, the difference is cool, and I don't think it needs to be changed. You haven't provided an argument to make me change my mind, and I obviously haven't changed your mind.

I'll be moving on now, hoping that TG and SMF stay as-is. If they don't, I'll deal, if they do, I'm sure you'll do the same. Good gaming to you.
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85 Night Elf Druid
0
Now you're telling me that it doesn't change the way I play? That is rather condescending of you. Let me say it again for you, SMF changes the way I play my Warrior versus how it feels to play TG. You can refute that all you want, but that doesn't make it untrue. :)


I agree that it changes the way you play, but forcing a talent respec just adds an extra (and costly) step to the process of switching weapons.
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85 Tauren Warrior
8120
Now you're telling me that it doesn't change the way I play? That is rather condescending of you.


Does it change the buttons you press? Does it change the way you spec (outside that one point)? Does it change what stats you prioritize? Does it have a mechanical impact on your gameplay?

No. It provides an aesthetic difference. That's no reason to maintain them as 2 separate talents when that same aesthetic would be maintained if they were combined.
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