Fuse Titan's Grip with Single-Minded Fury?

1 Draenei Hunter
0
That is rather condescending of you.


If you point at a square and tell me it's a triangle, it's not condescending of me to tell you that it is indeed a square. I might first query if it's a simple misunderstanding, and you happen to call an object with four, equal sides a triangle. Once your answer comes back negative though, it's not in any way condescending to correct you.

There is virtually no difference between how you play as a fury warrior talented into Single-Minded Fury, and how you play as a fury warrior talented into Titan's Grip. You watch different numbers appear on the screen at a different rate, but it doesn't actually alter how you play. It's an aesthetic difference.
Edited by Mayeli on 11/14/2010 10:32 PM PST
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90 Night Elf Druid
0
Again, it doesn't matter whether it is a functional or aesthetic difference. The fact of the matter is that having to change talents to change weapons is an arbitrary requirement that Blizzard has eliminated the precedents (weapon specializations) for.
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80 Blood Elf Paladin
5015
Again, it doesn't matter whether it is a functional or aesthetic difference. The fact of the matter is that having to change talents to change weapons is an arbitrary requirement that Blizzard has eliminated the precedents (weapon specializations) for.


It's arguable that having to change specs because you went from one two-handed weapon to a different two-handed weapon is considered different from a conscious decision to change specs because you want to use dual two-handers as opposed to dual one-handers.

Different enough to warrant separating each into their own talents.
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100 Human Warrior
14920
Again, it doesn't matter whether it is a functional or aesthetic difference. The fact of the matter is that having to change talents to change weapons is an arbitrary requirement that Blizzard has eliminated the precedents (weapon specializations) for.


It's arguable that having to change specs because you went from one two-handed weapon to a different two-handed weapon is considered different from a conscious decision to change specs because you want to use dual two-handers as opposed to dual one-handers.

Different enough to warrant separating each into their own talents.


Let's give all casters a couple of feats somewhere in their tree. One proves +15% dps while using a staff, the other proves +15% dps while using a 1hander+offhand.

I'm sure it's such an interesting decision and such an awesome talent, everyone will love these two talents added to their trees!
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80 Blood Elf Paladin
5015
It's not quite that cut and dried though, Secondwind.

Even if TG and SMF are intended to come out to the same DPS, they're not getting there the same way.

A more apt analogy would be if Staves made Frostbolts hit harder, while Spellsword+Off-hand made Frostbolts cast faster, and their respective talents amplified the effects to a degree that DPS met in the middle.

Although yes, if Blizzard wanted to pull off such a stunt, they'd be justified in trying to do so.
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1 Draenei Hunter
0
A more apt analogy would be if Staves made Frostbolts hit harder, while Spellsword+Off-hand made Frostbolts cast faster, and their respective talents amplified the effects to a degree that DPS met in the middle.


This isn't apt, because that actually alters how you play. You're hitting your Frostbolt key more often with a MH/OH combo than with staves in your hypothetical scenario, in addition to producing more damage events which turns into more procs.
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80 Blood Elf Paladin
5015
This isn't apt, because that actually alters how you play. You're hitting your Frostbolt key more often with a MH/OH combo than with staves in your hypothetical scenario, in addition to producing more damage events which turns into more procs.

It's not a perfect analogy because the different between a two-handed-Frostbolt and a one-handed-Frostbolt in terms of "attack speed" has to be expressed in discrete keypresses, unlike the difference between two-handed and one-handed Autoattacks.

However, the latter part of your paragraph regarding more damage events turning into more procs, is very relevant, I think - SMF can manage higher Enrage uptime because the hits are oftener (or have they changed that lately?)

In any case (and in the event that weapon speed/ability use differences have been completely quashed in TG-vs-SMF), the point was that in TBC, you only ever had one two-hander per PvE tier and one weapon specialization was always dominant in PvP even if multiple weapon types were available, which meant that Weapon Specialization was a non-choice: You simply took the best weapon that dropped in a raid, or took the best effect for PvP (stuns, or perhaps sword-spec)

In contrast, using a pair of two-handers versus using a pair of one-handers is a conscious choice you have to make: The game goes out of its way to make the two equal (or at least that's the intent), and acquiring a PAIR of weapons is a significant enough investment of your time and effort that you're not going to have one or the other as easily as you would have in TBC.
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87 Orc Warrior
OP
6475
i say, if you want both, spend a talent point in both, or use one spec for SMF and your other spec for TG. I like the separation.


anyone who specs both is beyond terrible


Making blanket statements like that isn't helpful to anyone. I could just as easily say that anyone who doesn't just dual spec into TG and SMF is beyond terrible. Neither statement is necessarily true or false.

What would they be giving up? Deep Wounds? Incite is more valuable, imo, than Deep Wounds, especially with a 5% crit chance baseline at 85 (by all reports); I think it's okay to give up a couple of points in that talent. It's not like you aren't wasting points in Field Dressing or Blitz to get Deep Wounds anyway. Or you could go the other way and give up two points in Incite for 3/3 Deep Wounds.

You can say Field Dressing is useful, but then I'll tell you to stop standing in fire; and Blitz is pretty self-explanatory. But hey, like I said, you can just dual-spec into TG.

I like the differences; I like the price you have to pay in order to want to take my SMF weapons, or if I want to take TG weapons. What do weapon skills and doing away with them have to do with SMF and TG? None that I can think of.

I think it's a meaningful choice right now, which is evidenced by this very thread. I think those are few and far between right now, and in this case, I like the choice.


even if if incite is better than deep wounds a rank in deep wound is still better than speccing into SMF and TG
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100 Human Warrior
8170
why do you like it? Because as it stands the only interesting thing about it is having to respec based on your weapons. They removed all the weapon mastery skills with the new trees but then stuck this crap in. It's just weird.
this is exactly right, they might not have realized it?
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85 Tauren Warrior
8120
They will likely stick to whichever of the two feels and plays better for them. I imagine only a very large tier difference between your available weapons would be enough to make the average warrior respec for a slightly better 2h/1h, when the difference in playstyle from what you prefer may actually result in lost damage.


People do a lot of things to min/max. Spending 50g isn't exactly a huge hassle. It's a gold sink. A really stupid gold sink.
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90 Troll Warrior
9925
i would love to have a giant 2h in one hand and a small axe in the other.
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90 Orc Warlock
11170
I don't see why these have to be separate talents. They could just combine them into one talent, "Titan's Grip," with a two-part tooltip..


They should just remove all talents except for one called "Make my character better" for 1 point.
Seriously, all this complaining about these sort of things is what's given us this homogenised expansion.
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100 Worgen Warrior
17115
I think they have them separate solely on loot purposes, that's the only reason I can think of. Only reason I can think of.


Well, I recall a blue post about this and their answer was, is that some warriors like the "feel" of 1Hers. It's a faster swing and "feels" more warriorish. I guess it can be viewed has six of one, half dozen of the other. Seems like it would be alot of wasted enegry trying to keep them both equal and hve to worry about keeping arms viable as well.

While I would like the convinece of having both, once raiding starts, I really don't see that many folks swapping back and forth very often. The cost of getting new weapons gemmed and Enchanted will be make the 50G respec a drop in the bucket.
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80 Orc Warrior
3190
What would b the two best one-hand weapons for SMF?
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85 Worgen Warrior
6110
I don't see why these have to be separate talents. They could just combine them into one talent, "Titan's Grip," with a two-part tooltip.

This is a little more out there, but it would be cool if SMF increased all damage with 1hers by 15% instead of increasing damage by 15% while dual-wielding 1hers. It would probably still be suboptimal, but this would allow warriors to reasonably use a two-hander MH and a one-hander OH if you get unlucky with weapon drops.


I don't see why Blizz could not have baked TG and GMF into the tree and came up with an entirely new 31 point talent. TG & SMF being baseline for fury would imho make it far easier to balance the tree, and give us a much more creative 31 pointer.
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100 Tauren Shaman
11960
This is more of a pet peeve, but having exactly one tree with two "pinnacle" talents is awkward, especially when they are simply passive bonuses and could easily be merged.

This.

I don't see why Blizz could not have baked TG and GMF into the tree and came up with an entirely new 31 point talent. TG & SMF being baseline for fury would imho make it far easier to balance the tree, and give us a much more creative 31 pointer.

Also this.
Edited by Matuk on 12/3/2010 9:26 AM PST
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