Should 1 heals stand above others?

85 Troll Shaman
0
Going down your list there:

A: Shaman still provide generally the best buffs. Totems and Bloodlust are still more beneficial to a raid than any buffs any other healing class can bring.

B: When he says paladins have the best defense, he's not comparing Protection paladins to other tanks. He's comparing Holy paladins to other healers, particularly in PvP. Holy paladins have an enormous amount of defensive power right now. Protector of the Innocent, Holy Shock, Blessed Life + Eternal Glory + Word of Glory. They can spam powerful instant heals on themselves at a very fast rate for a very long time without running out of mana and then when it finally looks like they're in trouble they can pop Divine Shield or Aura Mastery + Concentration Aura and cast uninterruptably for a few seconds as well. No other healer is nearly as hard to kill in PvP.

C: Agreed, I don't really know what he's talking about with HP. All healers have about the same HP in healing gear.

D: All healers except Holy priests are not particularly constrained by mana at level 80. If you were running out of mana while doing a new raid encounter last week that you weren't familiar with it was only because you were having to spend more mana to cover the mistakes of others.

E: I'm pretty sure when he said paladin healing was substantially better than other healers he meant in the Cataclysm beta (where they were, at least a week or so ago), but balance there is still fluctuating quite a lot.

F: If paladins don't have the best instant heal abilities now they're certainly competing with druids for that title. Holy Shock is a decent heal on a short cooldown with a very low mana cost that triggers multiple useful procs and builds up Word of Glory, which is very strong and costs no mana. Talents like Eternal Glory, Daybreak, Speed of Light and Infustion of Light greatly enhance those instant spells. Light of Dawn and Holy Radiance are also instant and don't forget LoH as an enormous instant heal on a long cooldown.

G: Holy paladins have the best damage output of the healer specs since Speed of Light, which is quite possibly bugged. Speed of Light is supposed to increase the cast speed of the next healing spell by 30% and then be consumed. However, it's currently also increasing the cast speed of Exorcism by 30% (unmentioned in the tooltip) and is not consumed, meaning you can Holy Shock someone and then chain cast very fast Exo's at them for very respectable damage, especially if you also have the Blazing Light talent. It's not enough to be a viable PvE DPS spec, but it's well above the sustainable output of the other healers.
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85 Troll Shaman
0
Smite spam is pretty powerful as well.


I have a priest too, and you're certainly right, especially with Power Infusion on. But it's not on the same level as Exorcism right now.

Try it yourself if you have a paladin. Just spec Blazing Light and Speed of Light. (Throw in Denounce too if you want to make it cost almost no mana.) Cast Holy Shock on cooldown to keep the Speed of Light buff up and spam Exo. The damage is really high.

I'd actually be amused to see how much DPS a holy paladin could get in ICC with the spirit -> hit rating conversion talent and the 100% crit chance for Exo on undead mobs.
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85 Undead Priest
6340
A. The best buffs

debatable... I'm not sure that kings or might is really better than totems or motw+brez or fort.

B. Best defense

Are you talking pvp? If so paladins are the easiest healer to lock down.

C. Best hp

Hp is pretty comparable between the healers

D. Infinite mana

not bad on live at least.

E. 1.5-2x higher output than other classes

On live no... in beta not quite that exaggerated, but still better.

F. The best instant heal abilities

definitely better than riptide... but better than rejuv+wg+lb? or renew+coh/renew+bubble/PW:B? Hardly
G. Best offense

This is the one that made me lol. Paladins have the worst dps by far of any of the healers.


not only are you delusional, you apparently haven't played the game for the past month.
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80 Night Elf Druid
2875
I laugh at you reply to this post because as a Druid Healer, I've out healed many Paladins and have to give up MY innervate to help out with their "infinite" mana issues. And now that Lifebloom is better I've out healed many Pally Tank healers aswell. LOL
Edited by Firëfly on 11/16/2010 11:17 AM PST
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85 Blood Elf Warlock
6000


B: When he says paladins have the best defense, he's not comparing Protection paladins to other tanks. He's comparing Holy paladins to other healers, particularly in PvP. Holy paladins have an enormous amount of defensive power right now. Protector of the Innocent, Holy Shock, Blessed Life + Eternal Glory + Word of Glory. They can spam powerful instant heals on themselves at a very fast rate for a very long time without running out of mana and then when it finally looks like they're in trouble they can pop Divine Shield or Aura Mastery + Concentration Aura and cast uninterruptably for a few seconds as well. No other healer is nearly as hard to kill in PvP.


PotI, Blessed life and holy shock were all nerfed significantly recently. Paladins were always a defensive class. That's part of being a plate and shield wearer. We should be able to take more incoming damage than escape artist druids.

G: Holy paladins have the best damage output of the healer specs since Speed of Light, which is quite possibly bugged. Speed of Light is supposed to increase the cast speed of the next healing spell by 30% and then be consumed. However, it's currently also increasing the cast speed of Exorcism by 30% (unmentioned in the tooltip) and is not consumed, meaning you can Holy Shock someone and then chain cast very fast Exo's at them for very respectable damage, especially if you also have the Blazing Light talent. It's not enough to be a viable PvE DPS spec, but it's well above the sustainable output of the other healers.


Seems many people haven't been paying attention to the pally tree, this is the second post I've read recently referring to the old SoL. SoL was changed on the beta quite some time ago. It only gives 3% haste now. And really, hpally damage isn't that great. No one is going to die from an hpally attacking them. Especially with most classes having some form of self heal.
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85 Night Elf Druid
6000
I love healing, but would get bored with only being able to chose 1 class if I want to get in a raid. I really like the idea of being able to play any of the 4 healers and be able to either spec to heal raid-wide, or spec to heal single targets. Each healer class has a lot to offer, along with a different healing style, which is unique to their class, and I think that's the way it should be; it gives all players more flexibility when deciding which class they will pick.
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85 Troll Shaman
0


B: When he says paladins have the best defense, he's not comparing Protection paladins to other tanks. He's comparing Holy paladins to other healers, particularly in PvP. Holy paladins have an enormous amount of defensive power right now. Protector of the Innocent, Holy Shock, Blessed Life + Eternal Glory + Word of Glory. They can spam powerful instant heals on themselves at a very fast rate for a very long time without running out of mana and then when it finally looks like they're in trouble they can pop Divine Shield or Aura Mastery + Concentration Aura and cast uninterruptably for a few seconds as well. No other healer is nearly as hard to kill in PvP.


PotI, Blessed life and holy shock were all nerfed significantly recently. Paladins were always a defensive class. That's part of being a plate and shield wearer. We should be able to take more incoming damage than escape artist druids.


It gets difficult to discuss class issues when the live servers and beta server are so different at the moment. On the live servers right now these abilities are all in their un-nerfed state, and they do make Holy paladins almost absurdly durable in PvP. I realize Blizzard has taken steps to correct this and it won't be such an issue at 85, so it's not really a big deal.

G: Holy paladins have the best damage output of the healer specs since Speed of Light, which is quite possibly bugged. Speed of Light is supposed to increase the cast speed of the next healing spell by 30% and then be consumed. However, it's currently also increasing the cast speed of Exorcism by 30% (unmentioned in the tooltip) and is not consumed, meaning you can Holy Shock someone and then chain cast very fast Exo's at them for very respectable damage, especially if you also have the Blazing Light talent. It's not enough to be a viable PvE DPS spec, but it's well above the sustainable output of the other healers.


Seems many people haven't been paying attention to the pally tree, this is the second post I've read recently referring to the old SoL. SoL was changed on the beta quite some time ago. It only gives 3% haste now. And really, hpally damage isn't that great. No one is going to die from an hpally attacking them. Especially with most classes having some form of self heal.


Same thing here. The original, overpowered version of Speed of Light is currently on the live servers, and it's definitely giving Holy paladins a lot of offensive punch. I suspect it would be considered a significant PvP balance issue if arenas were currently being played. I also think it's a bug since the tooltip doesn't even mention it effecting Exorcism. Once again, this should not be an issue at 85.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
5805

not only are you delusional, you apparently haven't played the game for the past month.


Most of my points were about cata, and I noted it in my post you quoted... but if you think paladins are all of those things on live, then you obviously don't play a paladin. The only point listed that might be valid on live is good defense, but that's only if the other team doesn't know how to stun/silence, in which case my point is still correct.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
11565
To bring a different point of view:

In Guild Wars you had 8v8 PvP (Hero's Ascent), and most groups contained:

2 Pure Healers (Monks or occasionally Necromancer/Monks or Elementalist/Monks)
0-3 Support Classes (Almost half the classes could fill this role)

Even though this game was drastically different in structure from wow, I really did like the group setup in some ways. Basically every group needed two monks, they were the designated 'health bar pushers'. But then you got to decide how you wanted to balance the rest of the group. If you felt a situation required more condition removal, immunity versus certain things, or additional heals of a different kind, you could specify that by what type of support healers you brought. You had great control over the variations of offhealers and their skills, which you could customize and bring to the encounter to specifically provide you with the type of healing or buffs that you wanted.

Also, you could determine how dps-heavy or defensive you wanted your comp to be by not only the number of healers & offhealers, but the type of offhealers. All of the offhealing class combinations packed different amounts of DPS & heals depending on how you customized them. In a way I think WoW tried to bring this customization to each WoW healing class, but WoW is constantly toeing the line, between making all the classes equally strong while not losing the 'niche healing' feel which makes them all feel unique. In guild wars, every pure healer was a monk and so no 'create equal' issue was on the table. And for the offhealing setups, there was no issue of balance either because anything that a character lacked in the healing output, they would make up for in DPS or utility. This worked great because you could choose exactly the balance of abilities you wanted for an encounter.

This would be tragic for PvP in a lot of ways though, and relatively unrealistic for the structure of this game. Like I cannot imagine the 2v2 bracket. It's just something to think about, since I think WoW is kind of crippled by the constant lack of balance and lack of customization (spec, gems, enchants, glyphs, and gear are not enough for me - they aren't drastic enough changes to the playstyle for me personally), but I'm a biased GW vet so I can't really talk. I'm used to being able to basically choose eight skills out of an encyclopedia of talents, to be used together as I wish.
Edited by Daemøn on 11/16/2010 12:24 PM PST
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85 Troll Shaman
0
The only point listed that might be valid on live is good defense, but that's only if the other team doesn't know how to stun/silence, in which case my point is still correct.


That's kind of a disingenuous statement. Paladin healers are arguably less vulnerable to stuns than other healers because they can get out of one with Divine Shield. The only other healer abilities that can be used while stunned are Barkskin and glyphed Pain Suppression.

They're also less vulnerable to silence and interrupt effects than other healers because of Aura Mastery and the aforementioned plethora of instant heals which allow them to avoid casting much of the time. The only other healer who has anywhere near that level of protection against getting silenced at a bad moment is shaman, who can block some silences (though not all of them) with Grounding Totem. Admittedly, Grounding Totem is a much shorter cooldown than Aura Mastery, but shaman are also forced to cast more frequently due to having very limited instant heals.

At any rate, all healers are somewhat vulnerable to being stunned and silenced, but it's arguable that paladins are less vulnerable to it than others.
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85 Night Elf Druid
5430
No.

This. Thread over.

Although I do love me some D&D references.
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90 Human Paladin
aus
18560


That's kind of a disingenuous statement. Paladin healers are arguably less vulnerable to stuns than other healers because they can get out of one with Divine Shield. The only other healer abilities that can be used while stunned are Barkskin and glyphed Pain Suppression.


Both of which are shorter cooldowns, We dont have hots, we dont have a honking great pws. we might have a 1k or so mastery proc which fades after 6 seconds by itself.
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85 Troll Priest
0
I played a priest during classic.

Somehow I got the impression that healing was not very fun on every other healing class. I mean, as entertaining as it was for our paladins to spend 75% of their mana bar rebuffing kings during the fight, I'm sure they would have rather been healing.


I wish we had paladins back then so I didn't have to dispel all of Vanilla.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
9110
I wish I could support the idea of a SUPERIOR healer, but I can't imagine what the world would do with all those Hmrheads running around.

<---------------Deez healz are all you need. ;-)
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85 Night Elf Priest
7220
No.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
5805

At any rate, all healers are somewhat vulnerable to being stunned and silenced, but it's arguable that paladins are less vulnerable to it than others.


because of all those passive heals going on while they are stunned right? It sure is hard to kill a stunned paladin with their pw:shield, renew, lifebloom, rejuv, regrowth hot, earthshield, riptide hot, healing stream. Those paladins are so hard to kill while stunned.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
9110
And really, hpally damage isn't that great. No one is going to die from an hpally attacking them. Especially with most classes having some form of self heal.


<----------- Killed a rogue in IoC yesterday and I was holy. Took about six minutes and he was terrible. I never got stunned once. Ret Aura, Consecration, Judgments, and heal myself through the pinpricks.
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85 Blood Elf Warlock
6000
And really, hpally damage isn't that great. No one is going to die from an hpally attacking them. Especially with most classes having some form of self heal.


<----------- Killed a rogue in IoC yesterday and I was holy. Took about six minutes and he was terrible. I never got stunned once. Ret Aura, Consecration, Judgments, and heal myself through the pinpricks.


lol, ok I should have said you won't die to a hpally if you aren't a complete moron. Actually I was thinking about writing that when I made the prior post but I assumed that people couldn't possibly be that stupid. Alas, your post proves me wrong. What a terrible rogue. lol
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