Poison Simplification

80 Human Rogue
6325
Hello.

I'm currently worried about the design behind poisons. Previously, it was more like alchemy; the rogue would acquire the materials (whether through vendor/herbalism) and had a bit more depth to the skill. I understand why it was removed - it was tedious and unnecessary. Now, we've got a very simplified version. Each poison has one rank that scales with level.

At the maximum level, the cost incurred to purchase a poison is insignificant. With the inclusion of a thrown weapon, I find myself consuming a very large amount of poisons. This, in addition to the relatively short duration, makes me wonder why we have to constantly re-apply them over and over again. It's a very crucial part of our class, yet it's by far the least interesting.

Why not change poisons to an infinite duration like an aura? I know this is kind of a slippery slope argument, but we've already descended the slide.
Edited by Layta on 2/14/2011 6:43 PM PST
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29 Night Elf Rogue
270
Agreed. It's such a tedious task to apply poisons every so often. In fact, mine wear off in between battlegrounds and usually I don't even notice until someone isn't getting kiting because my crippling poison isn't on my dagger.
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The simplest solution is to train yourself to keep an eye on those weapon buffs. Short of that, there are addons that will alert you to when you need to re-poison, such as Power Auras.
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80 Human Rogue
6325
I am fully aware of the addons that are available to remedy this. However, there are design modifications that have taken place to trivialize poisons and at the moment they're in a bit of a strange state.
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90 Night Elf Rogue
9655
Personally, I've always liked the idea that we learn them from a trainer at the appropriate level, and then they function in a similar manner to the shaman weapon enhancements (First clicked goes on MH, second one selected automatically goes to offhand). No items in your bag, you have an infinite supply, no need to remember to buy them or spend money on them anymore.

Hunters don't have to buy ammo, which was essential to their class. Why do I still have to buy poison?
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80 Human Rogue
6325
Personally, I've always liked the idea that we learn them from a trainer at the appropriate level, and then they function in a similar manner to the shaman weapon enhancements (First clicked goes on MH, second one selected automatically goes to offhand). No items in your bag, you have an infinite supply, no need to remember to buy them or spend money on them anymore.

Hunters don't have to buy ammo, which was essential to their class. Why do I still have to buy poison?



This right here is my rationale. Hopefully this gets picked up and seriously considered. We'll just have to see :)
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85 Blood Elf Rogue
11015
I always thought they should work like Shaman weapon buffs.

I don't mind them having a duration, but having to consistently purchase an item that is a important part of our classes damage output is pretty lame.
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85 Night Elf Rogue
4155
Well, seeing as we can get them from junkboxes we pickpocket, and seeing as we can pickpocket extra cash from mobs, I think they've given us a way to pay for our poisons.

Wait, we can add poison to our thrown weapon now? Guess I need to update my macros to add a "middle mouse button" option. What poison is best for thrown?
Edited by Adra on 11/10/2010 7:49 PM PST
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80 Human Rogue
6325
Well, seeing as we can get them from junkboxes we pickpocket, and seeing as we can pickpocket extra cash from mobs, I think they've given us a way to pay for our poisons.

Wait, we can add poison to our thrown weapon now? Guess I need to update my macros to add a "middle mouse button" option. What poison is best for thrown?


My initial post dismissed the trivial cost of poisons. That was never the problem.


Please do not derail the thread.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
8915
I smell a troll.

And I'd say an hour is fine.
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80 Human Rogue
6325
I smell a troll.

And I'd say an hour is fine.


Care to add a little more to that statement? I have no problem if you disagree, but please explain why. I've tried to convey my thoughts as clearly as possible to a problem that I perceive.

I can very well argue that you're trolling, with such a blunt assertion backed with no evidence.
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100 Gnome Rogue
12655
Hello.

I'm currently worried about the design behind poisons. Previously, it was more like alchemy; the rogue would acquire the materials (whether through vendor/herbalism) and had a bit more depth to the skill. I understand why it was removed - it was tedious and unnecessary. Now, we've got a very simplified version. Each poison has one rank that scales with level.

At the maximum level, the cost incurred to purchase a poison is insignificant. With the inclusion of a thrown weapon, I find myself consuming a very large amount of poisons. This, in addition to the relatively short duration, makes me wonder why we have to constantly re-apply them over and over again. It's a very crucial part of our class, yet it's by far the least interesting.

Why not change poisons to an infinite duration like an aura? I know this is kind of a slippery slope argument, but we've already descended the slide.


don't trivialize poisons anymore.

if anything petition to get them back to an item we have to farm. i loved selling vanishing powder and blinding powder for tons of cash.
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78 Dwarf Rogue
4290
Just out of curiosity. Has anyone thought that they didn't make it like shaman buffs cause they didn't want you to be able to switch it instantly while in combat? I haven't played my rogue in a few months and haven't played him seriously since beta. So just curious if this could be the reason they aren't shaman buff style.
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80 Human Rogue
6325
Just out of curiosity. Has anyone thought that they didn't make it like shaman buffs cause they didn't want you to be able to switch it instantly while in combat? I haven't played my rogue in a few months and haven't played him seriously since beta. So just curious if this could be the reason they aren't shaman buff style.


I cannot comment on how the shaman works, sadly. I've never played one.

don't trivialize poisons anymore.

if anything petition to get them back to an item we have to farm. i loved selling vanishing powder and blinding powder for tons of cash.


I don't see how taking it down one notch further would trivialize it would hurt. If anything, I think that it would be an interesting design change that would benefit the class as a whole.

Requesting a change so that you can make more money isn't good design. The goal of this thread is to better the game.
Edited by Layta on 11/11/2010 11:54 AM PST
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100 Goblin Rogue
11140
I smell a troll.

And I'd say an hour is fine.


I smell an idiot.

And I say that Seals should be bought and applied to weapons and take up space in your bags.
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100 Human Rogue
15935
This is a very interesting topic and I would like to put in my input. First off I noticed since the scaling changes that depending on where you buy the poisons, you will have many different poisons of the same kind. ie I bought 10 poisons from the poison vendor in Dal, then went and bought 10 more of the same poison from jeeves. Ive noticed i get level 10 poisons and level 80 poisons. They won't stack but have the exact same tooltip and damage. Its just frustrating not a big deal.

Onto the topic at hand. I like the idea of getting rid of the icon in our bag. Maybe the poison could act similarly to how glyphs work. We could have access to them all and we use an item(ie vanishing powder) to change the poisons on our weapons.

I like the idea quite a bit and don't see a detriment of it. Rogues will never want to be without poisons, so why not make it so you can have the poison you want on the majority of the time.
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80 Night Elf Rogue
4065
Hm, well. To be honest, I miss the old poisons where you had to work on your skill. It was a lovely unique mechanic and I actually had fun capping mine. I didn't complain about the removal, but I do miss it from time to time.

I see where you're coming from. Poisons are as essential to a rogue as ammunition to a hunter, yet they removed those items. Still, I like the act of applying poisons to my weapons. I like that rogue is just a bit different.

Though, I suppose, I wouldn't really complain if they changed it to your suggestion as well.
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90 Night Elf Rogue
9655
Just out of curiosity. Has anyone thought that they didn't make it like shaman buffs cause they didn't want you to be able to switch it instantly while in combat? I haven't played my rogue in a few months and haven't played him seriously since beta. So just curious if this could be the reason they aren't shaman buff style.


Keep the cast time on the application. Problem solved
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90 Orc Rogue
15165
Ah, yes, I remember the old poison crafting system—the tedious crafting system where I leveled up my character faster than I could use the lower-level poisons. I frankly never saw the use for making so many types of poisons, and I'm happy it got abstracted away.

I think it maintains the flavor of the class in having the poisons be tied to physical objects that you keep around in your inventory. It's one of the things that sets us apart from enhance shamans.

I only wish there were more poison vendors around the world, it irked me that the TOC area had vendors of all kinds, and even profession trainers, but no poison vendor.
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