On rotating rated BGs

85 Undead Warlock
5000
Already posted this somewhere else and I had good feedback so I figured I might as well post it here. There are some other issues with how the rated BG system is planned but I believe these two, especially the weekly rotation, should face nearly unanimous opposition and they are the ones I want to discuss here.

After reading this http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=27607280587&sid=2000 FAQ, I must say I believe the rated BG system is terribly planned. And I am not what you call a ''casual'' PvPer. I reached Gladiator on two of my three active arena seasons and played extremely optimized premade WSG/AB teams for nearly one year. I however believe important changes will be made before or soonly after it goes live because Blizzard is not stupid and I don't see the current system working out.

Rated Battlegrounds are broken down into three brackets. 10v10, 15v15 and 25v25. These brackets rotate weekly and can be viewed in-game via the calendar by activating the battleground holiday filter.

Players must create a raid with the full number of players required for the current bracket before entering the queue. Any level 85 player of your faction may participate in the battle (regardless of guild association).

When players win a battle, they are rewarded conquest points, up to their weekly cap. Weekly caps are individual for each player and are based on your highest single pvp rating from the previous week (the cap resets on Tuesdays). This rating can be derived from your 2v2, 3v3, 5v5 arena, or your rated battleground rating.

Players start at zero rated battleground rating and progress upward from there. Rating is only reduced after a lost battle when the player is above their internal matchmaking rating. For the most part, a rating only goes up.

Epic ground mounts will be rewarded at the end of each season to the top 0.5% of players. Titles are also available as you gain rating in the system. The titles are rewarded directly from achievements earned from gaining the required rating.

Winning a rated battleground with a team composed of 80% guild members will result in the additional benefit of guild experience gain for your guild. The UI will display a guild banner near the minimap that lets you know if you are eligible for guild achievements and experience.



These brackets rotate weekly and can be viewed in-game via the calendar by activating the battleground holiday filter.


This is probably the worst part. This will screw up groups, force good AB teams to accept random bads in order to fill up 25-man raids, etc. This is not like rotating maps in arenas, this would be like rotating 2v2/3v3/5v5 weekly. This would mess up team composition and synergy, screw over classes which aren't as good in a specific BG, screw over any esports potential rated BGs could have had, etc.

I expect this to change before or soon after rated BGs are released because I can not see any type of player enjoying it or agreeing with it.

Winning a rated battleground with a team composed of 80% guild members will result in the additional benefit of guild experience gain for your guild.


This is simply forcing the guild progression system down our throats at the cost of enjoying the PvP experience. In vanilla most (read: not all) good teams were made of players hand-picked from various guilds because of their PvP skills. Players shouldn't have to choose between a PvE guild and a PvP guild. I can already see daily problems caused by this system (we want to play with player x who is a friend and a good pvper but he doesn't belong to the guild and would put our team under 80% so we'll invite random guildie y instead /// player z who doesn't give a @#!@ about guild progression system switches guild every other day to accomodate his rated BG teams /// etc.)

This won't be nearly as much of a problem as the first issue if most people don't give a %%## about guild experience. I hope this will be the case.

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85 Blood Elf Paladin
5805
I doubt guild groups will be a huge factor in bg teams. It won't take terribly long for any decent guild to get to level 25, and there are daily xp caps anyway.

But yeah... when I heard about the rotating team size, it left me scratching my head. I have 12ish people from my guild and my previous guild I pvp with regularly, adding another 13 pugs every 3 weeks just seems weird.
Edited by Wimplee on 11/11/2010 9:29 AM PST
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85 Tauren Druid
5365
I can't decide what is worse... the fact that you will have to pug in more people in order to play, or the fact that we will be forced to play terrible battlegrounds, that just about all competitive pvpers hate.
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85 Night Elf Druid
5430
I can't decide what is worse... the fact that you will have to pug in more people in order to play, or the fact that we will be forced to play terrible battlegrounds, that just about all competitive pvpers hate.

The latter for sure. On any reasonable population server you'll hook up with other good pvpers, maybe 2 smaller guilds will work together for the larger bgs. But the fact that you're taking a good group into a horrible bg remains totally out of our control and thus sucks way harder.

Perhaps if Bliz sees the participation in crappy bgs like SotA and Isle stays low even when they're the featured rated bg, they'll revisit this poor implementation.

Badly implemented rated bgs > no rated bgs. At least we have a foundation in place. Now with reasonable suggestions, and possibly players boycotting the bgs that simply aren't fun, the system may evolve into something more awesome.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
5805
They decided to remove the 25v25 bracket from rated bgs!

http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/124162/rated-battlegrounds-faq
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85 Tauren Druid
5365
They decided to remove the 25v25 bracket from rated bgs!

http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/124162/rated-battlegrounds-faq


Thank god! Once again i am surprised by the fact that blizzard has listened to people on the forums... ty blizzard!
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100 Troll Mage
10510
They decided to remove the 25v25 bracket from rated bgs!

http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/124162/rated-battlegrounds-faq


That's really bittersweet and stupidly black and white of Blizzard.

I think people didn't like the idea of being forced to do 25 man rated BGs, but I'm sure most liked the idea of having them as an option.

I was very excited about venturing into a large scale BG with an organized group for a change instead of with a random PuG that plays with no organization or strategy.

I think the best compromise is to rotate the 10 and 15 mans but keep the 25 man BGs available all the time...or something.

There is so much opportunity for fun.
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85 Blood Elf Rogue
8290
one day blizz will do it like pve, both 10 and 25m will have same difficulty?
why keep 10v10 and 15v15? what will the other 5 guys do during 10v10 week, sit out? no fun.
Edited by Reizal on 11/11/2010 1:11 PM PST
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85 Tauren Druid
5365
That's really bittersweet and stupidly black and white of Blizzard.

I think people didn't like the idea of being forced to do 25 man rated BGs, but I'm sure most liked the idea of having them as an option.

I was very excited about venturing into a large scale BG with an organized group for a change instead of with a random PuG that plays with no organization or strategy.

I think the best compromise is to rotate the 10 and 15 mans but keep the 25 man BGs available all the time...or something.

There is so much opportunity for fun.


if they were to do somethign like this, it would make much more sense that they would keep 10 man rbgs all the time, due to the fact that WSG is by far the most popular BG, and im betting the new 10 man ctf bg will also be extremely popular, and then keep the 15 and 25 man rotating on a weekly basis.
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90 Human Rogue
11760
Posted this on old forums, came here to add if i found a thread about it. "Oh look moar qq without proposed solutions.../sigh"

After much though and deliberation, we have decided to remove the 25 v 25 bracket from rated battlegrounds. We felt that overall, it created too many logistical issues for players and that in the long run, most players would just skip that week in the rotation.

Thanks for all the feedback on this issue, we are listening. =)




Why not keep all three brackets and rotate the battleground used for each weekly instead of the bracket itself? This would render all the qq against 25v25 void as well as give the players who are capable and were looking forward to all three brackets the option to do so.

The people against 25v25 are the ones who will suffer with a bracket rotation and of course voice their opinion against it, and there are a lot of them. What were the many people, if not more like myself, who were looking forward to 25v25 suppose to say to the qq without trolling? I see their side of the story, understand, and agree, however removal of the bracket altogether is disappointing.
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90 Human Rogue
11760
Double post, please delete this.
Edited by Membranein on 11/11/2010 1:56 PM PST
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85 Blood Elf Warrior
12995
This change is terrible for a 25 man guild, we were planning to do rated BGs together as a guild. The 10 and 15 Bg weeks woulda been painful because there would be A team and B team drama, but hey in the old system we get to all be together in a 25 man every 3 weeks, so its not so bad.

But now...there WILL be A team and B teams, every week. They really should have done something like have a "favored" queue per week. Let conquest points be earned in all 3 brackets, but only the favored queue allows you to change your rated bg rating for that week. Though, at the same time that is bad because it does not show any adaptability at all which is something that is considered important in BGs, and not arenas.
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85 Blood Elf Warrior
12995
To not allow titles etc would mean there are 3 rbg ratings, and atm there is only 1. But at the same time, I dont think it will be as easy to afk your way tot he top. There will be a bg leader who hand picked all 25 people if they are doing 25. And he will hand out assignements, and if they arent followed that person will be blacklisted not invited back etc.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
6870
I was really looking forward to 25v25 BGs as well. I could really care less about the rewards but I would like to see how my group fares against another. Large scale PvP is fun and can be very competitive IF there are capable groups. Organized world PvP is some of the most fun I've had in this game - from the early days of Southshore, to the opening of the AQ gates and the Isle of Quel'Danas. Being able to organize AVs and IoCs would be awesome as well.

I think everyone here agrees that they just want to play with their friends and not be forced to do 25v25. By forced I mean making the player feel cheated by giving rewards to something they can't accomplish with their friends alone.

IMO give us the option to queue for AV, IoC and even Tol Barad as an organized raid. THIS WOULD MAKE THESE FUN! Sure rewards are nice but not necessary. A guild with at least 12 players can still get rewards from the other RBGs. Sound reasonable?
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