Approximation of raid boss strengths (lore)?

85 Blood Elf Warlock
6960
With every tier of content, player stats inflate. It is to the point that a small group of players could go back and kill Ragnaros - but that same small group would not be able to defeat the Jormungar worms in the Argent Tournament.

Clearly (and I don't think anyone would strongly argue otherwise), though our in-game power increases with each tier of content,the "lore" strength of our enemies does not necessarily increase.

I only know a little bit about the lore, learned from old warcraft instruction manuals, a few glimpses at wowwiki, and some things I've seen in-game.

I modestly propose:
The strongest opponents we've seen in the world are Yogg Saron and C'thun. These are the Old Gods.
After them would likely be Kil'Jaeden and Archimonde, the two highest-ranking generals of the Burning Legion, ruling the countless demons of the nether in Sargeras' long absence.
After those, there is the Lich King.
Beyond him, what comes next? M'uru, the insane and corrupted Naaru? Malygos, the mad Aspect of Magic? Algalon, the entity of stars sent by the Titans to "re-originate" the entire planet? Perhaps Illidan? I didn't consider him that personally strong - he was more of a clever leader - his power came from his ability to amass powerful followers and find powerful artifacts.

Does anyone have interesting ideas on this?
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
5735
M'uru(both types)
Kael'thas
Illidan
Malygos
Yogg Saron(as we face him) -C'thun
Arthas
Deathwing
Aglalon
Yogg Saron-C'thun
Sargeras
Titans

On the Sargeras/Old Gods thing, they can be flipped too. It took the entire pantheon to beat what? 6 Old Gods. They're pretty much toe to toe with each imo.
Edited by Layam on 11/11/2010 5:40 PM PST
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85 Blood Elf Mage
4230
Sticking purely to end-raid-bosses;

Yogg-Saron/C'thun
Kil'jaeden/Archimonde
Deathwing
Malygos
Ragnaros
Arthas
Hakkar
Nefarian/Onyxia
Kel'thuzad
Prince Malchezzar
Illidan Stormrage
Magtheridon
Sartharion/Halion
Kael'thas
Ossirian the Unscarred
Lady Vashj
The Titanic Watchers (all bosses in Vault of Archavon)
Anub'arak
Gruul
Zul'jin
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85 Blood Elf Warlock
6960
out of curiosity, why rank Malchezzar higher than Illidan? I, too, don't believe Illidan was particularly mighty, but Malchezzar seemed like a mere lieutenant, and not any sort of truly great being of power. I would have thought him to be beneath a Pit Lord like Magtheridon, even, who seemed very mighty as the demonic lord of Outland before Illidan came along.
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85 Human Mage
0
out of curiosity, why rank Malchezzar higher than Illidan? I, too, don't believe Illidan was particularly mighty, but Malchezzar seemed like a mere lieutenant, and not any sort of truly great being of power. I would have thought him to be beneath a Pit Lord like Magtheridon, even, who seemed very mighty as the demonic lord of Outland before Illidan came along.
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85 Blood Elf Mage
4230
out of curiosity, why rank Malchezzar higher than Illidan? I, too, don't believe Illidan was particularly mighty, but Malchezzar seemed like a mere lieutenant, and not any sort of truly great being of power. I would have thought him to be beneath a Pit Lord like Magtheridon, even, who seemed very mighty as the demonic lord of Outland before Illidan came along.

Because Malchezzar had access to all of the knowledge and power of Karazhan, as well as the ability to funnel any and all power from the numerous ley lines that converge there into whatever spells he may have wished to weave.

He may not have been that powerful directly, but in terms of what he could use against foes given the opportunity to plan ahead, Malchezzar wins.

Vaes list is fairly accurate, though Im not sure if KJ and Archi are actually stronger than the Dragon Aspects, and I would put Illidan up with Arthas. Those two were fairly close in power, and Ner'zhul was pumping all the energy he had into Arthas. The quest text made it seem like Illidan was the only person he feared (and read that as he would fight him if need be, but would rather not), if my memory serves.

Kil'Jaeden and Archimonde were the two single most powerful Eredar; they have been involved in the consumption and absorption of thousands of worlds into the Burning Legion. Their powers would, among the Legion, be second only to Sargeras.

Deathwing might be more powerful than them, I'll grant that.
Either one of those two could have taken down Malygos, though. They have tens of thousands of years of invasions of planets behind them. On every one of those worlds, they and their servants consumed all of the magic present, destroyed the world, and moved on.
They are incredibly powerful. :P

Illidan was only a match for Arthas because Arthas had not yet merged with the Lich King; the "power funnel" from Ner'zhul to Arthas was imperfect at best. Arthas was nowhere near as powerful then as he was when we fought him in-game.
Arthas, the Lich King would have curbstomped Illidan, and left him a corpse in seconds.
Arthas, the Death Knight, was a more or less even match for Illidan.
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100 Blood Elf Warrior
5660
I like Vaethria's list, but I wanna make some changes.

Kil'jaeden/Archimonde
Yogg-Saron/C'thun
Deathwing
Ragnaros
Arthas
Malygos
Hakkar
Nefarian/Onyxia
Kel'thuzad
Illidan Stormrage
Halion
Magtheridon
Sartharion
Kael'thas
Prince Malchezzar
Anub'arak
Ossirian the Unscarred
Lady Vashj
The Titanic Watchers (all bosses in Vault of Archavon)
Gruul
Zul'jin
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100 Blood Elf Warrior
5660

The Old Gods are most definitly stronger than KJ and Archi. The Old Gods are stronger than Sargeras. And even if they change it so thats no longer true, they are nearly as strong.


Yes, I would agree with you that the Old Gods are stronger than KJ and Archimonde, but as raid bosses, we only fought their simulacrums, their mortal bodies that were on Azeroth only held a fraction of their power.

At least... that's what I gather from the lore.
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85 Blood Elf Mage
4230
Yes, I would agree with you that the Old Gods are stronger than KJ and Archimonde, but as raid bosses, we only fought their simulacrums, their mortal bodies that were on Azeroth only held a fraction of their power.

At least... that's what I gather from the lore.

But this isn't a thread asking about their power as they were fought; it asks about their power overall.

Which is exactly why the Old Gods are head and shoulders (and tentacles, and... feet-like-things) above everything else. They make everything short of the entire Titan Pantheon look like gnats.
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100 Blood Elf Warrior
5660
Yes, I would agree with you that the Old Gods are stronger than KJ and Archimonde, but as raid bosses, we only fought their simulacrums, their mortal bodies that were on Azeroth only held a fraction of their power.

At least... that's what I gather from the lore.

But this isn't a thread asking about their power as they were fought; it asks about their power overall.

Which is exactly why the Old Gods are head and shoulders (and tentacles, and... feet-like-things) above everything else. They make everything short of the entire Titan Pantheon look like gnats.


Oh. I misunderstood. I thought you meant their power over all, as they were fought. Like if all the bosses were level 85, who would be strongest in lore terms.
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85 Blood Elf Mage
4230
Nope. Just the straight lore terms, out of context of the game.
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100 Orc Warrior
22450
I just want to know where Trash Mob Joe gets his gear. I've taken down two old gods, Illidan, Kil'Jaeden, Arthas, countless Scourge, scores of demons, more dragons than I can count, and a giant robot. Yet these random schmucks get an HR tour and suddenly my head pops off like a bottle rocket.

______________
http://www.fanfiction.net/u/2348118/
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90 Human Paladin
8185
M'uru(both types)
Kael'thas
Illidan
Malygos
Yogg Saron(as we face him) -C'thun
Arthas
Deathwing
Aglalon
Yogg Saron-C'thun
Sargeras
Titans

On the Sargeras/Old Gods thing, they can be flipped too. It took the entire pantheon to beat what? 6 Old Gods. They're pretty much toe to toe with each imo.


Is that list in any particular order?? I wouldn't say Kael'thas ranks anywhere near the level of power as the other characters listed.
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85 Blood Elf Warlock
6960
Vaethria, where would you put Algalon in your list? He is not an end boss,but I feel he is a powerful-enough entity to merit listing among the rest, no?
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90 Human Paladin
8185
Here's my list, in order of most powerful to least powerful.

Old Gods & Titans
Sargeras & Deathwing & Queen Azshara
Dragon Aspect
Murmur
Kiljaeden
Elemental Lords (Rag, Alakir)
Pit Lords (I think Mannaroth getting 1-shotted by Grom was a fluke more than anything)
Lich King
Illidan & Dreadlords

Some explanations. Yes, I know Sargeras is a Titan, but I think the pantheon as a whole is stronger and I don't think he is the strongest Titan either. Also, I know Deathwing is an aspect, but he has been empowered by the Old Gods, making him stronger. Queen Azshara was on the same level as Kiljaeden and Archimonde, but now she has been empowered by the Old Gods, making her stronger as well. I do think Azshara, Sargeras and Deathwing are now on the same level, with one being a bit stronger than the others.

I do think Dragon Aspects are stronger than Kiljaeden though, being empowered by the leaders of the Pantheon themselves.

I put Pit Lords above the LK because they aren't just strong and gigantic, they actually wield magic and are very proficient at it. And again, I think Mannaroth's arrogance caused his death because he spent his time toying with Grom instead of using his full power and killing him. Finally, i would put Illidan on the same power as Dreadlords.

I purposely avoided the Naaru because I'm not sure where they can range. Certainly more powerful than dreadlords and pit lords I would think. But how they stack up against an aspect or even a titan? I don't know.

EDIT: I forgot about Elemental lords... and Murmur, who it think is more powerful than your standard Elemental Lord like Ragnaros.
Edited by Verus on 11/12/2010 8:48 AM PST
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90 Orc Warrior
10290
-Yogg-Saron/C'thun
-Deathwing
-KJ/Archimonde
-Algalon
-Ragnaros
-Murmur
-Arthas



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