Focus like/dislike?

82 Blood Elf Paladin
4040
Do you like or dislike how focus currently works as the new hunter resource?

As we all should know by now, saying things like "focus isn't/is fun" without giving reasons is not the proper way to give feedback, so if you feel about it one way or the other, then please give your reasons.

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I myself find focus hard to enjoy. The main culprit for me is probably the way steady shot is tied into our resource system. It makes me feel as if, instead of being mildly limited by resources or cooldowns, that I'm in a headlock due to the cost of focus shots and the slow rate at which focus regenerates. All of the other classes that rely on resources gain them just by attacking or possibly through an ability like Evocate/Hymn/Harvest, not by using a special casted shot. If steady shot was instant and not casted, then it wouldn't feel nearly as limiting to me as it does now.

I'm not suggesting that as a solution, just explaining that having to cast an ability just to gather resources makes the system feel like it's peppered with a whole lot of doing nothing. Steady shot in order to stack procs to get an instant Aimed Shot? Cool! Steady shot is doing something. Steady shot in order to gain resources to use real attacks... not so cool. No other spec involves repeatedly casting something simple in order to cast something great. You don't cast Flame shock 3 times to get enough mana to LB, you don't cast slam 3 times to get enough rage to MS, you do hit SS or w/e enough times to get enough combo points to use the 3/4 finishers, but at least you have finishers that aren't tied to cooldowns so you have a desire to get those combo points. It just feels like the majority of the time I'm forced to use an ability that has nothing interesting about it whatsoever.

The Ret PvE DPS system was made more interesting recently (sadly at the same time we lost some of our more interesting PvP utility), and I feel that while Ret PvE DPS system has gone forward, the hunter entire DPS system has just taken a big leap backwards. It's not interesting. It's not challenging. There aren't even any serious proc's to take care of. I'm going to make a wild no math backed up assumption here, but I bet you won't drop very far in DPS with a hunter if you ignore the majority of your procs. If you ignore focus fire as BM, if you ignore Aimed Shot procs as MM, of course you can't ignore LnL shots as SV, but yeah.

So yeah, any other hunters takes on focus? Like/dislike?
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90 Tauren Shaman
12680
I think they should just give you guys energy and change what Steady Shot does.
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85 Human Paladin
7345
I think they should just give you guys energy and change what Steady Shot does.


How would that change anything significantly? Hunters need a reason to stop, so do fire mages actually.

Hunters just need only their damage shots costing focus and everything else being no focus.


That's actually how it is, as far as I can tell from leveling my hunter (67)

Perhaps it's just because I'm survival, but I have absolutely no kiting damage, which pretty much kills solo leveling.
The damage I do when standing still is so spiky that no pets can keep aggro off me, and the damage I do when moving is nonexistant because I have no focus for instant casts, and cannot regain focus while moving.

The result I have is I can only get worthwhile amounts of leveling done via the dungeon finder, since only dedicated tanks are able to keep aggro off me even when I intentionally throttle my threat gen. Even then, serpent spread alone is enough to pull an entire pack off a tank even when waiting 5 seconds after the pull.
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90 Night Elf Druid
14970
Focus is fun... once you're not doing the Arcane Shot Spam rotation and are in situations where you can reliably Steady Shot. Unfortunately, that only exists against dummies right now. Players outgear everything in PVE, so nothing lives long enough to Steady Shot while JP farming. PVPing right now is hell without AotFox or decent damage from the signature shots.
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90 Draenei Shaman
8305
I like how it almost feels like a combo point system (build up "something," then dump it), but the amount of "build up" is more continuous, as opposed to a rogue's discrete combo points. It's fun switching between build up mode and dump mode.
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85 Dwarf Hunter
4510
Hate it.

First, I hate getting the basic tools to manage focus at such late levels - Aspect of the Fox and Cobra Shot are quite important to BM and SV being able to keep focus available for reliably using signature shots.

Second, I hate not having any reserves. At all. Before, I could go all out for a reasonable time, then I'd have to switch to Viper and recover mana and then switch back to full DPS. Now I have to be recovering focus pretty much after every single shot. If focus recovery were kept the same but the pool were 10x bigger, I'd like it a lot better. I could sustain my mobile output for longer if I had to, would have a little more room to recover from minor rotation mistakes without hitting either end of my focus bar, but it would take longer to get back to full or nearly full if I depleted things. It would make the system feel much smoother without actually letting Hunter sustained DPS be any better, since at 85 rumor has it that we're fine in that department.
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85 Dwarf Hunter
4510
Edit: Bah, double post. First time I tried got a 404 error.
Edited by Craggar on 11/12/2010 8:18 PM PST
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85 Tauren Warrior
8120
10x the focus pool just makes you the burstiest class in the game.
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60 Dwarf Hunter
3445
At 60, I don't have problems with Focus itself. It's other issues such as weakness of Aimed Shot, MM conditional talents that are worthless 75 to 80% of the time and lack of Disengage and Aspect of the Fox at low levels.

One big plus with Focus is no more mana burn.

With Rapid Recuperation, I rarely have to use Steady Shot. I sometimes get 8000-9000 Focus back with Rapid Recuperation in a random dungeon.



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85 Worgen Hunter
Vis
4680
Focus isn't really an issue, it's the other core mechanics (talents,abilities) that fail the class. There are tons and tons of threads explaining these issues, I'm not going to repeat them.
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85 Worgen Hunter
8275
Why would anyone bother to burn you anyway? Trust me, they can all survive the three shots you're able to throw at them before you're OOF and dead in the water.
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85 Night Elf Hunter
7170
I like it simply because managing it is a continual process of weighing up what shot ability to use when rather than the old mana based system where a mindless rotation was used and the only thing which changed that was one running low or oom and switching to viper, or movement which limited shots on cd. with this change to focus means you have to pay attn alot more and with the ability to dps alot more with movement aotf gives it a more continual attn flow than mindless rotation and series macro pressing.
You actually have to pay attention to the resource side of being a hunter now unlike how it was with mana.
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85 Blood Elf Mage
13125
It makes me feel as if, instead of being mildly limited by resources or cooldowns, that I'm in a headlock due to the cost of focus shots and the slow rate at which focus regenerates.


Isn't this the point of a resource system?
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82 Blood Elf Paladin
4040
Isn't this the point of a resource system?


Not really. Resource systems are meant to require a little thought and planning, not constantly stifle your opportunity. Imagine having to wand things in order to use any of your spells. Two wands before you have enough resources to cast pyorblast or fireblast. I just don't find it a fun system when the constraints are that restrictive.

I play a couple other classes, and no other class has such a restrictive feeling on resources that I've encountered... though perhaps Death Knights with runes, but that's why they have two resource systems and runes come back and act as cooldowns on abilities that otherwise don't have cooldowns, whereas with hunters our abilities still have cooldowns so we end up with "focus dumps".

Obviously that's a personal opinion, as many others in this thread feel that focus and attention to focus is a good thing :p Though @Tegra, I'd have to counter your mindless rotation comment with the statement that perhaps our mindless rotation should have been fixed, instead of giving us a mindless rotation that has a heavy resource restriction. IMO our rotation is still just as mindless.
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90 Troll Hunter
4400
I quite like it, it depletes quickly, but it also replenishes quickly. I've found myself being far more discerning in my rotations and ability choices due to the fact I can only use a group of 3-4 at a time before needing to auto-shoot/steady shot to 'restock'.
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85 Blood Elf Mage
13125
Isn't this the point of a resource system?


Not really. Resource systems are meant to require a little thought and planning, not constantly stifle your opportunity. Imagine having to wand things in order to use any of your spells. Two wands before you have enough resources to cast pyorblast or fireblast. I just don't find it a fun system when the constraints are that restrictive.


Considering wand mechanics, that's a pretty bad example. A better comparison might be, imagine having to cast two fireballs before you can cast pyroblast. Well, I usually have to cast alot more than two fireballs before I can pyroblast!

I play a couple other classes, and no other class has such a restrictive feeling on resources that I've encountered... though perhaps Death Knights with runes, but that's why they have two resource systems and runes come back and act as cooldowns on abilities that otherwise don't have cooldowns, whereas with hunters our abilities still have cooldowns so we end up with "focus dumps".


What exactly feels restrictive about the focus bar? The fact that you have to intersperse stuff like chimaera shot with steady shots? You did that already.
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85 Dwarf Hunter
4510

What exactly feels restrictive about the focus bar? The fact that you have to intersperse stuff like chimaera shot with steady shots? You did that already.


We did it before because we could - because casting Steady Shot when you had a chance to stand still and get a cast off was better damage than not casting Steady Shot under those circumstances. Now, if we don't have a chance to cast Steady Shot, we don't have a chance to cast *ANYTHING*. I don't mind having to cast Steady Shot to do peak damage. I mind having to cast Steady Shot to allow me to do anything at all beyond autoshot.
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