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I've looked a Lazeil's specs more then once and I always see it as Single Target spec and AoE spec. In Wrath 4.0 I used to do something very similar. I had an AoE Spec/Glyphs and a Single Target Spec/Glyphs.
The places where he takes points out of are perfectly fine and really come down to a matter of preference. Kind of like me having 1/2 PoJ instead of 2/2.

P.S. Drop one of the buff glyphs and pick up glyph of insight and glyph of truth (minors). This let's you seal twist easily during combat which is sweet (especially if you ever do fall behind on threat in a low single target threat build).

I have been meaning to do this.

For some tanks, they get that luxury of having 2 prot specs, others, like myself, are forced to dual spec in case raid leaders want to make subs or whatever :P

That being said, even with the AoE spec I have right now, I haven't felt the need to move back into threat talents. I'll keep playing by ear, and it could very well change as our guild continues to gear up and progress, but as it stands, there really isn't a whole lot to worry about :\

Seal Twisting FTW!

No new posts in 5 days.


UNACCEPTABLE!!!!


Umm trying to up a question to justify this post....

/think
/think
/think

Oh okay!!! When do you recommend using an armor trinket?

For magic damage fights stamina seems the way to go and for healing intense fights mastery.

I guess for physical damage fights where there isnt alot of raid aoe damage? Or are they interchangeable with avoidance/mastery trinkets.

mmm yeah that seems like a good question justifying this post =)

Armor in general beats mastery in every situation where melee damage can't be avoided.

A good example of this is the block meta vs armor meta. The block meta is only very slightly better in terms of mitigation than the armor meta, but it only applies to attacks that can be avoided, where as the 2% increased armor is valuable against every melee attack there is.

For trinkets? I personally don't see enough value in the equal ilvl trinkets to cancel out the benefit of mastery.

According to Theck's derivation thread, with Mastery vs Armor, 1 single point of Mastery rating is worth 7 armor.

Taking the Bedrock Talisman at 1285 Armor, vs the Mirror of Broken Images at 321 Mastery Rating, the Mirror comes in significantly over the Bedrock Talisman (2247 armor's worth of value from the Mirror).

You can include procs as well, but even at that level, the Mirror's Proc is so good compared to the Talisman, I wouldn't even bother considering another trinket.

On Demand resistance that stacks with all other buffs. It's essentially a 25% magic damage mitigation buff (assuming full raid buffs). Same cooldown as Divine Protection with no mana cost and the same duration (40% magic damage reduction without any resistances).

Cool though the fact that you would need to nearly double the armor on the bedrock talisman to be comparable makes me think that armor is under budgeted.

Yeah, i'd have to look at it more closely, but that trinket itself does feel very underbudget. But they did increase the value of bonus armor significantly at the end of WOTLK moving into Cataclysm. Regardless, comparing the mastery directly to the armor, it definitely seems like the mastery is significantly overbudget for pallies :\

Wow thanks.

Didnt know that.

Here is hoping that on my crappy server it doesnt cost like 2k gold.

Any leg upgrades i should look for...


...i have the feeling its gonna take an act of god or a heroic drop to find better legs than the pillars of might.

cape was 500 gold on my server -_-


Edit:

@Xayton

Could i ask a favor. As you know i pimp your guide almost every chance i get. Its an awesome guide and it deserves to get pimped out.

But could you just confirm that the spec im planning on using falls under the " there are more variations" part of:

Specs;
Always subject to change.

Survivability;
http://wowtal.com/#k=-e40fMs1.a8t.paladin.

There are some variations on this spec, so I will list a couple of the most popular.

1/2 Reckoning
http://wowtal.com/#k=-e40M6odT.a8t.paladin.

2/3 RoL
http://wowtal.com/#k=-e4zWW9m.a8t.paladin.

Again, there are more variations.

I don't consider going for a more threat based spec to be even worth doing anymore because of Vengeance.

This is what im planning on:
http://www.wowhead.com/talent#sZhrhcRdkRRucbG:socqbRmcM

I just feel that the threat and survival of Rule of law as well as the utiltiy of 2/2 out weigh the utility and threat of 2/2 GC.

With 1/2 I still get those RNG shield just not as often. I feel i get exponentially more benefit from that 1st point compared to the 2nd. Either way you are not guaranteed a proc when you need it.

I have tried both and I HONESTLY dont notice any difference between 2/2 and 1/2 because its sooo RNG. I dont ever go "damn if i just had one more point the talent would have procced when i needed it." On the other hand i can tell the difference in 1/2 and 2/2 PoJ (the talent i would pull a point out of for 2/2GC).

I Highly respec your opinion and just would like you to say you think that its a decent talent choice so that when i say "Go to Xayton's guide its amazing" they wont reply "why dont you follow his guide yourself and get a proper spec noob."

Out of Curiosity, why 1/2 GC and not 1/2 Reckoning?

@Celyndrashad

Personally I am not a fan of 1/2 GC myself, BUT I will probably put it in 2/3 RoL's place because not maxing out RoL seems like a bad idea in my eyes. Mostly because you also lose survivability on top of threat. If it was just threat I would be semi okay with it.
My opinion aside, it would technically be a larger threat boost to go 1/2 GC over 1/2 Reckoning. Reckoning is 330 DPS per point and GC is only 124 DPS per point. So from a pure threat + survivability build 1/2 GC is superior. It comes down to how much RNG you are willing to put up with. I will probably put a note reflecting this.

As somewhat of an after thought (and this is a poor argument but the point is there). Take Argaloth for example, if he isn't attacking you, you wont be blocking therefor you wont get any stacks of Reckoning. That's one of those situations where you are better off with 2/2 GC because at least you can use that. Like I said this is a poor argument because there is only like one boss where this applies, but you get the idea.

01/31/2011 10:28 AMPosted by Caeless

Out of Curiosity, why 1/2 GC and not 1/2 Reckoning?

Because reckoning is nearly twice as much threat as GC and like I said above i simply can not tell the difference in 1/2 vs 2/2 GC. I get back to back procs with both though I know mathematically not as many.

My main thing is I really really want 2/2PoJ and 3/3 RoL and looking at my options it seems to come down to GC or Reckoning in order to get that. Since I don't really notice the difference in proc rate, dont really have AoE issues, and its less threat...GC just seems a better choice to cut.

While SotP may be more threat than GC i find the utility of 1/2GC more than makes up for the tiny threat loss. Thats why i don't go 1/2SotP and 0/2GC.

Of course as Xayton said/showed there are exceptions. But i have respecced for individual encounters before so that does not really bother me.

01/31/2011 12:30 PMPosted by Xayton

@Celyndrashad

Personally I am not a fan of 1/2 GC myself, BUT I will probably put it in 2/3 RoL's place because not maxing out RoL seems like a bad idea in my eyes. Mostly because you also lose survivability on top of threat. If it was just threat I would be semi okay with it.
My opinion aside, it would technically be a larger threat boost to go 1/2 GC over 1/2 Reckoning. Reckoning is 330 DPS per point and GC is only 124 DPS per point. So from a pure threat + survivability build 1/2 GC is superior. It comes down to how much RNG you are willing to put up with. I will probably put a note reflecting this.

As somewhat of an after thought (and this is a poor argument but the point is there). Take Argaloth for example, if he isn't attacking you, you wont be blocking therefor you wont get any stacks of Reckoning. That's one of those situations where you are better off with 2/2 GC because at least you can use that. Like I said this is a poor argument because there is only like one boss where this applies, but you get the idea.

Thank you. Like i said i tell everyone to go to your guide and it would be awkward if they noticed that i was not following it myself.

I still think that GC is superior to reckoning.

You will never notice if you remove points in reckoning, ever. It's 100% passive single target threat.

GC is far superior AoE threat as shown by the AoE threat graphs in the matlab thread.

Also, the utility coupled with GC is huge, especially in fights that require adds to be picked up. Having it off cooldown more often means it's just that much more reliable.

I know it all comes down to personal choice, but I'd use 2/2 GC (and am) over points in reckoning any day of the week.

01/31/2011 4:23 PMPosted by Caeless

I still think that GC is superior to reckoning.

You will never notice if you remove points in reckoning, ever. It's 100% passive single target threat.

GC is far superior AoE threat as shown by the AoE threat graphs in the matlab thread.

Also, the utility coupled with GC is huge, especially in fights that require adds to be picked up. Having it off cooldown more often means it's just that much more reliable.

I know it all comes down to personal choice, but I'd use 2/2 GC (and am) over points in reckoning any day of the week.

And that is perfectly fine! We both like our builds and are having fun thats all that really matters right?

Like Xayton said it all depends on the amount of RNG you want to deal with =)

I mean you and i both have the important talents in our build:
Toughness/JotJ/Vind/sanct/Holy Shield/GbtL/AD/ and most importantly Divine Guardian.

So long as you have those you know you are doing it right.

And that is perfectly fine! We both like our builds and are having fun thats all that really matters right?

Like Xayton said it all depends on the amount of RNG you want to deal with =)

Like I pointed out with the constraints of 3/3 RoL and 2/2 PoJ. The highest threat build you can get is drop one point out of GrC and not Reckoning.

Quick trinket question:

IS DMC: Earthquake worth getting at all?

Side note: I think I'm geared for raiding.... not 100% sure anyway. Stupid trinket from ToTT refuses to drop >.>

<--- New to tanking. (just made this guy 4 or 5 days ago.)

So I started reading this guide and went all cross eyed. Being new to the class/role I don't know all of the shorthand yet. It doesn't help that I won't even be able to train most of the stuff being talked about for many, many levels.

My question is; is there a guide somewhere for leveling a paladin tank?

I'm learning as I go but at this point I could be just fudging my way through it all and not even know it. Everyone in the lower level LFD has full BoAs which means the already easy/forgiving low level content is pretty trivial. I'm just worried that I'll get to 80+ and realize that I was doing it wrong the entire time and never really "L2P".

<--- New to tanking. (just made this guy 4 or 5 days ago.)

So I started reading this guide and went all cross eyed. Being new to the class/role I don't know all of the shorthand yet. It doesn't help that I won't even be able to train most of the stuff being talked about for many, many levels.

My question is; is there a guide somewhere for leveling a paladin tank?

I'm learning as I go but at this point I could be just fudging my way through it all and not even know it. Everyone in the lower level LFD has full BoAs which means the already easy/forgiving low level content is pretty trivial. I'm just worried that I'll get to 80+ and realize that I was doing it wrong the entire time and never really "L2P".

Hope this helps:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/1866357128#1

I think I've read this guide twice (now I need to respec :P). I want to say that I have always played this toon as tank, but became quickly bored leveling once Wrath came out and too lazy to DS and re-gear. I haven't tanked in 2 years and am nervous jumping into the LFG system even at 76. Great guide and I will be reading it yet again once I get closer to 85.