Confessions of a Tank turned DPS

80 Human Death Knight
1830
I used to tank PuG's with my Pally back in the day and I had all the usual problems associated with the gig. DPS not caring about aggro, people complaining I'm moving too slow and pulling, etc.

The last few weeks I've been playing my DK and I'm ashamed to say I find myself becoming guilty of the same behavior. When I first began I would wait a few moments for the tank to get aggro before I started my dps and I would never use DnD due it's high threat.

Over time however, I've found myself becoming more and more reckless and yesterday while in a H PoS I actually said out loud to myself "Why is this tank moving so slow!" and proceeded to pull a mob. I have no regard for threat anymore and when I hear the aggro warning sound I just keep going. I even get some kind of perverted pride out of pulling a mob off the tank because it somehow means I "out did" the tank.

It's crazy how one's behavior changes when the shoe gets put on the other foot. Anyone else who used to tank and now does dps find themselves guilty of this? Maybe we could form a support group.
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85 Goblin Shaman
12305
You need help and the first step is admitting you have a problem. :/
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100 Blood Elf Warrior
11105
I have more health than some tanks, and wrath heroics are a joke anyways.
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80 Undead Warlock
2525
First thing first i want to make sure its understood that none of this post's content is in any way sarcastic.

Congratulation. You are beggining to understand ''truth''. The truth is, there is always two sides to each coin. If you can put yourself in the other person's shoes, you can understand their actions and reasoning.

Now do this exercise: go back and tank some heroics. You will notice a couple things...
1) You pull faster. A lot faster. Basically you learn to gauge your healer's capacity and push it to the limit because you remember this ''omfg go faster!'' feeling.

2) You push your threat. That perverted pleasure you are talking about, you can find here. Personally i usually roll with very geared dpsers who happen to pull a %!#*-ton of threat, and I get a lot of pride never letting them get aggro and I even get to nag em about it.

3) You get a better feeling of what mobs are more likely to be randomly focused and why (squishier so ppl like big numbers for exemple), so you can prepare for it.

The side effect is that you then become extremely frustrated by slow tanks when you dps, even more-so then ppl who never tanked. Why? Because in the back of your mind you always have that nagging voice that says ''I could do such a better job of it!''.
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100 Draenei Paladin
19175
I've tanked and healed enough to know (generally) what's annoying behavior and what's not, and figure out most of what's happening in a 5 man and why. As a dps if I pull aggro and get smashed, I know if should have done something differently. Either identify early on that the tank doesn't have a solid handle on what they're doing or are badly outgeared.

Likewise, if I'm pulling aggro and the healer is willing to heal me through it, all the better. I'm risking my own repair bill by doing so, and it's not a personal dig at the tank. I don't really get why tanks get so cranky when someone pulls, unless that dps is continually doing something dumb and slowing the group, it's their own repair bill at risk.

Naturally most of the content is ridiculously outgeared right now so it doesn't matter much anyway. But when we're leveling again, who cares? Unless the dps is doing something incredibly dumb like wiping the group, incessantly complaining, or purposefully taunting off the tank it's on their own head. Take the risk that the healer will keep you up or don't, just don't stir up drama when you're adding to your own repair bill.
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85 Orc Warlock
5930
There's no consequence for pulling off the tank in wrath heroics, so why should a dps care? The instance will get done quicker if I don't worry about aggro.



That's the main reason, really. You'll start to care a LOT more, and develop more group-friendly habits, when you start getting 2-shotted after pulling aggro in Cataclysm.
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100 Tauren Shaman
11935
I used to tank PuG's with my Pally back in the day and I had all the usual problems associated with the gig. DPS not caring about aggro, people complaining I'm moving too slow and pulling, etc.

The last few weeks I've been playing my DK and I'm ashamed to say I find myself becoming guilty of the same behavior. When I first began I would wait a few moments for the tank to get aggro before I started my dps and I would never use DnD due it's high threat.

Over time however, I've found myself becoming more and more reckless and yesterday while in a H PoS I actually said out loud to myself "Why is this tank moving so slow!" and proceeded to pull a mob. I have no regard for threat anymore and when I hear the aggro warning sound I just keep going. I even get some kind of perverted pride out of pulling a mob off the tank because it somehow means I "out did" the tank.

It's crazy how one's behavior changes when the shoe gets put on the other foot. Anyone else who used to tank and now does dps find themselves guilty of this? Maybe we could form a support group.

I've gone in the other direction, but I never lost my DPS-minded thinking, even after main-tanking all of 10ICC and most of 25, as well as most of the 10M HMs.

I think all players should start as DPS, before they switch to tanking or healing. And frankly, players need to try all *four* roles (counting melee and ranged as separate here, because they have to act different in raids) before they start trying to tell other players how to play.

People who tank and only tank get some level of elitism, thinking all other players must listen to them and follow their lead. You shouldn't have to tell people to follow you - if you're a good leader, whether it be in 5-mans or 25-mans or in BGs, they will follow you whether you want them to or not.

I will tell tanks how to play, and tell melee how to play, but for now I leave healers and ranged deeps to themselves. Until I get my Priest to max level anyways. :)
But if a tank is pulling too slow? I don't say a word, I just run ahead of them with my instant GW and pull the pack myself. That's what ShamRage is for!
Edited by Matuk on 11/15/2010 11:25 AM PST
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90 Undead Rogue
13680
Cata *will* fix it - think back to H MGT - only a fool would've pulled a mob they couldn't CC or otherwise shed. Aggro on a patrol was often a wipe.

It's not going to fix %#%%.

People will just complain because they know Blizzard will cave to their demands.
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100 Tauren Shaman
11935
I think most tanks are conditioned to random DPS pulling mobs and killing it before it reaches them, making aggro a non-factor.

When I'm tanking on my bear, I will glance at target of target on a loose mob - if it isn't my healer, I don't taunt. If I see the DPS that pulled aggro in dire trouble, I will usually save his butt so we don't waste time rezzing and rebuffing him.

While healing, I've been plenty guilty of chain lightning pulling an extra pack of trash onto the tank, knowing full well I can spam myself until he manages to aggro them off.

Cata *will* fix it - think back to H MGT - only a fool would've pulled a mob they couldn't CC or otherwise shed. Aggro on a patrol was often a wipe.

I actually haven't had issues tanking. All these stories of DPS pulling mobs on the tank, I read with a bit of skepticism. Because I rarely have a mob pull off me, unless it's already low HP and it just took a HUUUUUUGE crit.


As to your last statement: Halion trash feels like what they will do in Cata.
Edited by Matuk on 11/15/2010 11:33 AM PST
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100 Draenei Paladin
19175

Everyone assumes it wasn't their fault.


Only the ones that wonder why they get a bad group every time.
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82 Blood Elf Paladin
4040

Unless the dps is doing something incredibly dumb like wiping the group, incessantly complaining, or purposefully taunting off the tank it's on their own head.


I used to do that in raids on trash. Just to tease the tank, and to put out some extra dmg back when our taunt was cool. He managed to save me 90% of the time.
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80 Troll Warrior
3935
Eh, when I'm tanking, I just hold everything I can (or am supposed to) and if I can't, I can't. Anything else is just silly rationalizations in my opinion.
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85 Tauren Paladin
9805
As far as I'm concerned, unless the tank establishes a kill order by marking targets for every pull (with a mod or by hand), it's the tank's fault.

When I used to tank, I had a macro I would spam for kill order (Skull, Square, Moon), and I'd mark them every single pull. Of course, at that time, if a DPS pulled threat they generally died so I could tell them if they pull it, they're tanking it (and by extension, dying); nowadays not only do I not tank any more, I don't care about threat. I out-gear content (and 99% of PUG tanks) that I pretty much end up doing nothing if I worry about threat, plus I have enough HP/armor to take the hits now.

I think it will matter more in Cataclysm. At least, I hope it does. I have no problem following kill orders and such, as long as the tank (or someone) takes the time to mark targets, and that they are, in fact, the correct targets to kill first.
Edited by Ashrial on 11/15/2010 4:25 PM PST
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