SUB PVP Damage at 85

Couple questions for all you beta testers at 85. I watched a few videos of 85 rogue pvp in arenas and the damage output looked god awful. It pretty much looked like lvl 80 rogue damage output with a large healthpool. Whats the deal? Was it just the video I watched? What kind of numbers are we seeing on Shadowstep ambush crits, backstab crits, and eviscerates?


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God forbid rogues do competitive damage. How fair would that be considering we can turn INVESABEL!?
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85 Worgen Rogue
8915
Would love a buff to bursty abilities (or a large buff to rupture) and then a nerf to Energetic Recovory so it just rewards using recup instead of requiring it in our dps rotation. It's just annoying having to keep that up just to do more damage. Just don't overbuff/overnerf things like you seem to do a lot.

Pehaps a small baseline buff to rupture and then adding Rupture to Coup de Grace. Also, make Serrated Blades 100%. From what I hear, sub is having trouble fitting even one evisc in the rotation. All that talent does is add annoying RNG to it.

I know this about sub pvp, but a lot of this can also help sub pvp as well.
Edited by Zinena on 11/16/2010 7:18 AM PST
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85 Blood Elf Rogue
10735

Dear Blizzard,

I'd like a Ferrari with a 640 HP V12, but still get 45 MPG when I'm on the highway.

Or a pony.

Thanks,

Fuji.


Go away.
Edited by Anjyl on 11/16/2010 7:36 AM PST
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85 Blood Elf Warlock
5105
Sub is such a complicated spec, giving it decent damage can make it overpowered pretty easily with the levels of control they have <against certain specs>.
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85 Night Elf Rogue
One
9060
Sub is such a complicated spec, giving it decent damage can make it overpowered pretty easily with the levels of control they have <against certain specs>.


funny, blizz did that to frost mages, and their control own rogue's.

but the dmg at least is fine at 80, id just buff the finishers SPECIALLY rupture and recuperate and SnD both add on mastery for increased timing (more pve wise).
Edited by Lunarclick on 11/16/2010 1:09 PM PST
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100 Blood Elf Rogue
9745
Sub's burst at 85 is honestly pretty decent, it's nowhere near what a Warrior's or Frost Mage's is though. The big problem currently is Sub's damage outside Shadowdance, it's complete crap. I'd like to see them buff it somehow with maybe bigger numbers out of rupture and have Serrated Blades affect SnD too.


I think the nerf to Recup was very much uncalled for, at the very most they should have made Recup affect the duration of Recup rather than make it unaffected all together.

But tbqh I really don't see them buffing Sub rogue dmg at all until much after the release of Cata, especially if they were willing to give into the QQ about Recup in duels.


And this is all conserning PvP, idk why you're playing sub for PvE.
Edited by Naughtlol on 11/16/2010 1:13 PM PST
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85 Draenei Shaman
5305
The idea of a Rogue and I cant imagine why rogues don't play this way: Rogues are Finisher Classes.

Ever played Mortal Combat? When the 3rd match is over and the large bold red letters and booming sound says FINISH HIM! that was the idea that a rogue is suppose to jump out of the shadows and kill steal that guy.

1. Rogues are opportunist classes, hints why you have a Stealth ability.
2. Rogues, Especially Sub Rogues, Are meant to strike hard and fast and go back to the shadows. Basically your job is to be the finisher or the sudden lock down on the healer so your group can kill the un-killable person.
3. You have the most advanced system in the game when it comes to CC, in fact you have every CC in the game minus Roots, meaning you have no excuse to not being able to CC a character(s).

In short, rogues are designed to be the greatest PvP class in the game. You as the player, just need to understand that you have no right to complain that you should be able to down a person by your self, that isn't how a Rogue is suppose to be played. You are the stealthy, sneaky, bastard that kills the weak or helps us take down the un-killable players. With out a rogue on your team, you don't have that Ace in the hand. I truly enjoy having a Rogue join me in battle. To arms my brothers and sisters, Cataclysm is coming!
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100 Blood Elf Rogue
9745
I'm not sure if you're serious or not, but that has to be the stupidest reply I've ever read concerning "how rogues should play."

That was @Thalais. Still wary on how to these new forums work.
Edited by Naughtlol on 11/16/2010 1:23 PM PST
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85 Blood Elf Warlock
5105
You guys are gonna have a hard time arguing with anyone about sub lack of damage if you're comparing yourselves to frost mages at 85.
I'm not saying sub damage is good at 85 ( mostly because i don't have the slightest idea the state they're in).
At 80, though, i don't think i can say that their <burst> damage is fine ( no one's is ), they can pretty much destroy anything cloth if they really mean to.
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85 Draenei Shaman
5305
I'm not sure if you're serious or not, but that has to be the stupidest reply I've ever read concerning "how rogues should play."

That was @Thalais. Still wary on how to these new forums work.

Then you have a lot to learn about your class young grasshopper. Rogues do well, currently, and at 85 they do well as well. Do you really think you deserve to be able to play in the open and fight in the open as other classes do? If that's the case, then I will be happy to take your stealth from you. I'll be happy to have all the CC's you have too. Oh can I have Immunity to all Magics also from your CoS?

What bothers me is when people want more damage when it was clear that you are not suppose to burst people form 100% to 0 come Cataclysm. The idea is to fight long, drawn out battles where skill becomes the main focus, not burst.

Sub Rogues will never be buffed, because they cause too much issues at lower levels and the Devs know this. Rogues are suppose to attack when they see an opening. That is what I meant by Opportunist fighters. I watch rogues all the time, waiting for someone to get to 50% health and jump in and burst them down. Why? Because they want to kill someone and go back into stealth. Sub rogues are masters at this game play and I approve of it. Your job is to fight with others so your team can counter that player.

No class is fine, every class needs tweaks because nothing is perfect. Playing a rogue how I play mine, which is how I discussed, has worked almost 90% of the time, the 10% was because I attacked a paladin and they bubbled.
Classes who have really powerful abilities such as stealth, have no right to demand they should be on par with classes outside of stealth. Use stealth, find a correct time to strike and be that player who can make the difference in the BG.
Edited by Thalais on 11/16/2010 1:35 PM PST
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85 Draenei Shaman
5305
Oh okay so you really are that retarded, good to know.

I would watch your self. You will be banned for violating the CoC. Try to express your self or your idea's without resulting in insults. I made that mistake and I was banned. I learned and was given a second chance. I suggest you do the same.

If you don't like how I play a rogue or the videos I have watched from Youtube, which the players themselves have said rogues are to be played as finisher classes and you (a rogue) shouldn't be able to solo people, then that is your opinion and that is fine.
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85 Blood Elf Rogue
10735
I'm not sure if you're serious or not, but that has to be the stupidest reply I've ever read concerning "how rogues should play."

That was @Thalais. Still wary on how to these new forums work.

Then you have a lot to learn about your class young grasshopper. Rogues do well, currently, and at 85 they do well as well. Do you really think you deserve to be able to play in the open and fight in the open as other classes do? If that's the case, then I will be happy to take your stealth from you. I'll be happy to have all the CC's you have too. Oh can I have Immunity to all Magics also from your CoS?

What bothers me is when people want more damage when it was clear that you are not suppose to burst people form 100% to 0 come Cataclysm. The idea is to fight long, drawn out battles where skill becomes the main focus, not burst.

Sub Rogues will never be buffed, because they cause too much issues at lower levels and the Devs know this. Rogues are suppose to attack when they see an opening. That is what I meant by Opportunist fighters. I watch rogues all the time, waiting for someone to get to 50% health and jump in and burst them down. Why? Because they want to kill someone and go back into stealth. Sub rogues are masters at this game play and I approve of it. Your job is to fight with others so your team can counter that player.

No class is fine, every class needs tweaks because nothing is perfect. Playing a rogue how I play mine, which is how I discussed, has worked almost 90% of the time, the 10% was because I attacked a paladin and they bubbled.
Classes who have really powerful abilities such as stealth, have no right to demand they should be on par with classes outside of stealth. Use stealth, find a correct time to strike and be that player who can make the difference in the BG.


Wow. Well I'm sold. I'll tell the guys putting together a solid rated battleground team that I will be RPing and the only time I'm coming out of stealth is to get a killing blow.
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85 Draenei Shaman
5305
Wow. Well I'm sold. I'll tell the guys putting together a solid rated battleground team that I will be RPing and the only time I'm coming out of stealth is to get a killing blow.

You can also CC as I said before. If your not going to get the killing blow, CC that healer goes a long way. I as a Shaman would CC more, but I have 1 CC as a class and I have to be Elemental to Root, which doesn't help against healer and almost all healers have a form to instant heal vs casting so I really never have a real chance to interrupt them.

Rogues have ways to survive outside stealth, but rogues shouldn't be asking for more damage when we all know they do well. Sure the numbers are still out of sync, but that should be fixed in the next 2 weeks.

I love having a rogue step up with me because I hate boomkins and rogues destroy boomkins. If that chicken put thorns on themselves, I just purge it off so my rogue ally doesn't kill themselves.

Asking for for anything without really giving a reason for or why, wont get you anything.
Edited by Thalais on 11/16/2010 2:02 PM PST
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85 Blood Elf Rogue
10735
Wow. Well I'm sold. I'll tell the guys putting together a solid rated battleground team that I will be RPing and the only time I'm coming out of stealth is to get a killing blow.

You can also CC as I said before. If your not going to get the killing blow, CC that healer goes a long way. I as a Shaman would CC more, but I have 1 CC as a class and I have to be Elemental to Root, which doesn't help against healer and almost all healers have a form to instant heal vs casting so I really never have a real chance to interrupt them.

Rogues have ways to survive outside stealth, but rogues shouldn't be asking for more damage when we all know they do well. Sure the numbers are still out of sync, but that should be fixed in the next 2 weeks.

I love having a rogue step up with me because I hate boomkins and rogues destroy boomkins. If that chicken put thorns on themselves, I just purge it off so my rogue ally doesn't kill themselves.

Asking for for anything without really giving a reason for or why, wont get you anything.


Fair enough. But don't talk about low level PVP like it should have any relevance to max level and how because we have more CC we should hit like a wet noodle. Should we do tons of damage on top of our CC? No. But should we be no threat at all and rely on having a warrior or mage around to kill anything? I'm not saying either of these situations are the case on beta, but don't argue that it should be.
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