Modern Blood Elf Mindset [Video]

91 Night Elf Druid
9065
It should be stressed that this is the story forums, yes, and that much of what people say is opinion - but that that opinion is based on something factual and not just guesses, assumptions, and fancies!


Agreed, but we can determine that the reason he didnt take his sword wasnt to hide what he was doing as much as hide who he was untill he got to his destination. He drug Moria out into the open, so obviously it wasnt about him hiding who it was that actually killed Moria.

It was about hiding who he was untill he GOT TO Moria...

Unless of course Im completly misunderstanding what you mean by that post...Which is probable.
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It's not for me to decide (as a character) what she was doing is wrong, it is her kingdom. If she didn't like the way Varian ran his kingdom would she be justified in doing what he tried to do? The man only unmasked himself so she could see who killed her, he even left his own sword behind because it was "too recognizable". He knew what he was doing was wrong.


Generally, being recognized while on a stealth mission is bad for the stealth mission.

If he was so terrified of being recognized after he had gotten her, why did he go to the great forge with her and get everyones attention after removing his mask?

By this logic, nobody had any right to put down Arthas for the way he ran his kingdom.
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100 Blood Elf Hunter
10920
My apologizes for forgetting Lothar as well as Garrona not being controlled by Twilight's Hammer (although I could have sworn she was controlled by them since her character came into being.) Still the condescending remarks weren't really needed. Excuse me for forgetting a piece of lore from a fantasy world, I forgot that to do so was a crime punishable by humiliation and death. After all I should eat breath and live warcraft, rather than study for my A+ certification, or work on scholarship work. See I can be condescending too.


This is absurd. It takes about three minutes of reading to find out all the facts. You didn't just forget a few facts, you forgot 99% of the storyline of Warcraft: Orcs and Humans.

Varian's anything -but- a saint. If he were a saint, I wouldn't like the character. He'd be boring.

You don't need to be so dramatic because someone was a little sharp-tongued with you and showed you where you were wrong.


Three minutes of reading that I did back when? I haven't re-read/re-played the story of humans vs orc since the game came out. That's been a long time, even longer considering it was a game. Since then I have read a few books here and there by Knaak, and Goldstien, but none the less it was a long time ago.
Yes he/she showed me I was wrong but in such a condensing fashion that came off rather insulting.

I realize that these are not the RP forums and you are not supposed to "speak in character" but when it comes to lore you have to think from a characters point of view to see both sides of it. It is her Kingdom, if she decides to succeed from the alliance that is her choice, and her law. Yes the "kidnapping" of Audiun (sp) was overboard, still the king of a city rushing in to "deal with her" is beyond overboard.
He was going to kill Moira what does it matter if she saw his face? Who is to say that he would not cover it up again after the deed was done? Do you think he was just going to kill her show his face and then waltz out of IF? No he wanted HER to know who killed her.
And by your logic Morth, the Iron Dwarves would have ran around doing that anyways after he killed her, so his plan was kind of flawed right? I may be mistaken and correct me if I am but didn't he only drag Moria out AFTER Auduin stopped him? I thought he was going to take care of her quietly until his son stopped him THEN he drug her out.

What Moria did is completely different from what Arthas did. Arthas was still a prince, not the leader, he had limited power in his kingdom, yet acted as if he was in charge. Also keeping your people in jail, and cutting them off from the world is worlds different then slaughtering them because you think there is no cure. Sure there wasn't but the man didn't even give anyone a chance to try.

Either way this thread I think has gotten derailed and it is no secret that it was thanks to me, so let's move on and continue Belf discussion..

Garthios was still under the Alliance banner, and he was Human. SW and Lord may differ, but where they were both Alliance, and both allies. How is it wrong for the Blood elfs to assume, that they would not be welcomed by one if they were not welcomed by the other?


Edited by Aylward on 11/11/2010 11:48 AM PST
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I realize that these are not the RP forums and you are not supposed to "speak in character" but when it comes to lore you have to think from a characters point of view to see both sides of it. It is her Kingdom, if she decides to succeed from the alliance that is her choice, and her law. Yes the "kidnapping" of Audiun (sp) was overboard, still the king of a city rushing in to "deal with her" is beyond overboard.


How so? She had committed an act of war against Stormwind, and she had never left the Alliance anyway. It's no different than Alterac in the Second War, except Moira was shown mercy this time.

Plus, the Dwarves saw them as liberators, what with the whole "cheering" business.

Plus, even if it was illegal (as it naturally would be; I imagine that Moira would make a law prohibiting anyone from killing her...) he still had a moral imperitive to liberate Ironforge.

It's very strange that people are arguing that Varian was "in the wrong" for liberating Ironforge, on the sole basis that it was "illegal" (according to...Moira's laws.)
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Garthios was still under the Alliance banner, and he was Human. SW and Lord may differ, but where they were both Alliance, and both allies. How is it wrong for the Blood elfs to assume, that they would not be welcomed by one if they were not welcomed by the other?


Why would they assume? Blood elves are supposed to be intelligent and wise. Why not, you know, ask them? I'm sure they could send a message to Stormwind's wizards through some use of the arcane.
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100 Tauren Druid
9880
It's very strange that people are arguing that Varian was "in the wrong" for liberating Ironforge, on the sole basis that it was "illegal" (according to...Moira's laws.)



Except that's not the only reason. The very first day the new forums opened there was an entire thread about it - didn't you yourself post in it? If not, you should go check it out. It won't seem so strange to you after you read the other reasons why it was a bad choice. (do not read: the result was wrong)
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Except that's not the only reason. The very first day the new forums opened there was an entire thread about it - didn't you yourself post in it? If not, you should go check it out. It won't seem so strange to you after you read the other reasons why it was a bad choice. (do not read: the result was wrong)


I did, and I had hoped that the matter was settled there.

There wasn't really anything wrong with Varian's actions.
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80 Undead Warlock
2540


Except that's not the only reason. The very first day the new forums opened there was an entire thread about it - didn't you yourself post in it? If not, you should go check it out. It won't seem so strange to you after you read the other reasons why it was a bad choice. (do not read: the result was wrong)


I did, and I had hoped that the matter was settled there.

There wasn't really anything wrong with Varian's actions.

The only thing that I think was wrong with it is that he didn't kill Moira there.
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100 Blood Elf Hunter
10920
Garthios was still under the Alliance banner, and he was Human. SW and Lord may differ, but where they were both Alliance, and both allies. How is it wrong for the Blood elfs to assume, that they would not be welcomed by one if they were not welcomed by the other?


Why would they assume? Blood elves are supposed to be intelligent and wise. Why not, you know, ask them? I'm sure they could send a message to Stormwind's wizards through some use of the arcane.

Lest we forget the Blood elves were starving for magic, they might have seen sending a message as squandering precious life energy.
They had been betrayed once, do you really think that if Stormwind had sent a letter saying "Oh hey yeah Garthios is a jerk, we totally won't do that to you." they could believe it?
Besides they were still allied with the Naga at this point as well as Illidan. Illidan being a wanted criminal as far as the Night elves were concerned. I doubt the Alliance would welcome us with open arms.
ALSO, given the fact that our very own race the high elves, who quite a few of them live in Stormwind, hate us for our way of life after losing the Sunwell, it's even more of a reason for us not to join with the Alliance.
Edited by Aylward on 11/11/2010 11:59 AM PST
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100 Tauren Druid
9880


Except that's not the only reason. The very first day the new forums opened there was an entire thread about it - didn't you yourself post in it? If not, you should go check it out. It won't seem so strange to you after you read the other reasons why it was a bad choice. (do not read: the result was wrong)


I did, and I had hoped that the matter was settled there.

There wasn't really anything wrong with Varian's actions.



I'm not really sure how to respond to a response that ignores my point by simply restating your opinion on the matter - so here you go:

I'm glad you have that opinion; I disagree.
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91 Night Elf Druid
9065


Except that's not the only reason. The very first day the new forums opened there was an entire thread about it - didn't you yourself post in it? If not, you should go check it out. It won't seem so strange to you after you read the other reasons why it was a bad choice. (do not read: the result was wrong)


I did, and I had hoped that the matter was settled there.

There wasn't really anything wrong with Varian's actions.



I'm not really sure how to respond to a response that ignores my point by simply restating your opinion on the matter - so here you go:

I'm glad you have that opinion; I disagree.


Meh, It was an interesting thread. I honest to goodness cant understand why people think Varian was in the wrong. I can understand people saying he was stupid to do what he did, in the manner he did it, but not wrong.

We need more threads like that.
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100 Tauren Druid
9880
Meh, It was an interesting thread. I honest to goodness cant understand why people think Varian was in the wrong. I can understand people saying he was stupid to do what he did, in the manner he did it, but not wrong.

We need more threads like that.



I agree, I did like the thread (though I think some posters got a bit overzealous in it).
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100 Blood Elf Hunter
10920


Except that's not the only reason. The very first day the new forums opened there was an entire thread about it - didn't you yourself post in it? If not, you should go check it out. It won't seem so strange to you after you read the other reasons why it was a bad choice. (do not read: the result was wrong)


I did, and I had hoped that the matter was settled there.

There wasn't really anything wrong with Varian's actions.



I'm not really sure how to respond to a response that ignores my point by simply restating your opinion on the matter - so here you go:

I'm glad you have that opinion; I disagree.


Meh, It was an interesting thread. I honest to goodness cant understand why people think Varian was in the wrong. I can understand people saying he was stupid to do what he did, in the manner he did it, but not wrong.

We need more threads like that.


I think he was wrong simply because rather than work things out diplomatically as he seems to want Thrall to do with giving up the orcs responsible, he just decides to go in and do as he pleases. I don't argue that what he did was "illegal" or even "legal", but given that he just decided to do what HE wants.
Moria could easily do the same to him, or even say Garrosh to Sylvanas, or Voljin to Garrosh. Sure they threatened it, but the important thing is they DIDN'T attempt it.
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91 Night Elf Druid
9065


Except that's not the only reason. The very first day the new forums opened there was an entire thread about it - didn't you yourself post in it? If not, you should go check it out. It won't seem so strange to you after you read the other reasons why it was a bad choice. (do not read: the result was wrong)


I did, and I had hoped that the matter was settled there.

There wasn't really anything wrong with Varian's actions.



I'm not really sure how to respond to a response that ignores my point by simply restating your opinion on the matter - so here you go:

I'm glad you have that opinion; I disagree.


Meh, It was an interesting thread. I honest to goodness cant understand why people think Varian was in the wrong. I can understand people saying he was stupid to do what he did, in the manner he did it, but not wrong.

We need more threads like that.


I think he was wrong simply because rather than work things out diplomatically as he seems to want Thrall to do with giving up the orcs responsible, he just decides to go in and do as he pleases. I don't argue that what he did was "illegal" or even "legal", but given that he just decided to do what HE wants.
Moria could easily do the same to him, or even say Garrosh to Sylvanas, or Voljin to Garrosh. Sure they threatened it, but the important thing is they DIDN'T attempt it.


Stormwind and Ironforge are unlike any other places in the game, and as such you must judge the way he dealth with that into the situation.

Varian would not have to worry about an invasion from the Night Elves. With the tram, that WAS a threat to Stormwind. We can assume that the Tram is not easy to destroy, or it would never exist in the first place. If Morias was even showing signs of pulling out of the Alliance, it was a direct threat to Stormwind.

Regardless, Im going off topic.
Edited by Ferlion on 11/11/2010 12:25 PM PST
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100 Orc Warrior
21195
I don't think it's really fair to put it all on Garithos. The Blood Elves may have initially joined the Horde out of desperation and animosity towards the humans, but I like to think they've bonded with the other races since then:

-The Forsaken were a huge help in the Ghostlands. Enough to where many Blood Elves would be willing to overlook any prejudices they have towards them.

-The orcs are something of a kindred spirit, even if neither side will admit it. Both were enthralled by demons, and both are struggling to rebuild their civilization into what it used to be. Both had to go against their own kind for the greater good of their people. I should think there would be some level of respect between the two races post-Sunwell.

-Trolls might earn some glaring looks, but the Blood Elves fought the Amani, not jungle trolls. That should be enough to at least tolerate each other.

-Who doesn't love Tauren?

And that's before factoring in everything else. The contempt of their High Elf brethren, who've openly aided the Alliance, has to sting. The war is sure to obliterate any hope of diplomacy between the Blood Elves and Humans. The Horde army has to value the Blood Elf scouts and magi in at least a practical sense. The Reliquary is a pretty big boon to the Horde, albeit in a very indirect way.

I just wish we could see more in-game cooperation between the Blood Elves and the rest of the Horde. In fact I wish we could see more of that with every race, Horde and Alliance. These are dark times but there should still be something of a war buddy vibe going on.

______________
http://www.fanfiction.net/u/2348118/
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100 Blood Elf Hunter
10920


Except that's not the only reason. The very first day the new forums opened there was an entire thread about it - didn't you yourself post in it? If not, you should go check it out. It won't seem so strange to you after you read the other reasons why it was a bad choice. (do not read: the result was wrong)


I did, and I had hoped that the matter was settled there.

There wasn't really anything wrong with Varian's actions.



I'm not really sure how to respond to a response that ignores my point by simply restating your opinion on the matter - so here you go:

I'm glad you have that opinion; I disagree.


Meh, It was an interesting thread. I honest to goodness cant understand why people think Varian was in the wrong. I can understand people saying he was stupid to do what he did, in the manner he did it, but not wrong.

We need more threads like that.


I think he was wrong simply because rather than work things out diplomatically as he seems to want Thrall to do with giving up the orcs responsible, he just decides to go in and do as he pleases. I don't argue that what he did was "illegal" or even "legal", but given that he just decided to do what HE wants.
Moria could easily do the same to him, or even say Garrosh to Sylvanas, or Voljin to Garrosh. Sure they threatened it, but the important thing is they DIDN'T attempt it.


Stormwind and Ironforge are unlike any other places in the game, and as such you must judge the way he dealth with that into the situation.

Varian would not have to worry about an invasion from the Night Elves. With the tram, that WAS a threat to Stormwind. We can assume that the Tram is not easy to destroy, or it would never exist in the first place. If Morias was even showing signs of pulling out of the Alliance, it was a direct threat to Stormwind.

Regardless, Im going off topic.


I had completely forgotten about that tram, I only use it to kill your leaders for bears.
Still I think he was wrong in just sneaking in and trying to assassinate a leader, he's been doing some less that honorable things lately, as have humans under the Alliance's flag. Shooting those poor goblins, trying to kidnap a man, well orc who is just trying to keep the elements in check....
That is really what it boils down to with the Blood elves too, an Alliance official/leader decided to be a jerk, and boom an ally lost. Same with the Goblins, their neutrality ended, unless there are two sets of goblins I don't know about.
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100 Blood Elf Hunter
10920
I don't think it's really fair to put it all on Garithos. The Blood Elves may have initially joined the Horde out of desperation and animosity towards the humans, but I like to think they've bonded with the other races since then:

-The Forsaken were a huge help in the Ghostlands. Enough to where many Blood Elves would be willing to overlook any prejudices they have towards them.

-The orcs are something of a kindred spirit, even if neither side will admit it. Both were enthralled by demons, and both are struggling to rebuild their civilization into what it used to be. Both had to go against their own kind for the greater good of their people. I should think there would be some level of respect between the two races post-Sunwell.

-Trolls might earn some glaring looks, but the Blood Elves fought the Amani, not jungle trolls. That should be enough to at least tolerate each other.

-Who doesn't love Tauren?

And that's before factoring in everything else. The contempt of their High Elf brethren, who've openly aided the Alliance, has to sting. The war is sure to obliterate any hope of diplomacy between the Blood Elves and Humans. The Horde army has to value the Blood Elf scouts and magi in at least a practical sense. The Reliquary is a pretty big boon to the Horde, albeit in a very indirect way.

I just wish we could see more in-game cooperation between the Blood Elves and the rest of the Horde. In fact I wish we could see more of that with every race, Horde and Alliance. These are dark times but there should still be something of a war buddy vibe going on.

______________
http://www.fanfiction.net/u/2348118/


Let's not forget that our former Ranger general is the leader of the Forsaken, and every blood elf worth his sunwell rations loves her.
Edited by Aylward on 11/11/2010 12:34 PM PST
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100 Blood Elf Warlock
10245
It should be stressed that this is the story forums, yes, and that much of what people say is opinion - but that that opinion is based on something factual and not just guesses, assumptions, and fancies!


Agreed, but we can determine that the reason he didnt take his sword wasnt to hide what he was doing as much as hide who he was untill he got to his destination. He drug Moria out into the open, so obviously it wasnt about him hiding who it was that actually killed Moria.

It was about hiding who he was untill he GOT TO Moria...

Unless of course Im completly misunderstanding what you mean by that post...Which is probable.

It says specifically in the book that he was wearing the mask so that it would have a greater impact when he removed it to reveal his identity.


More importantly, to the topic at hand. I think the blood elf mentality fits perfectly with the Horde. Garrosh's Horde, in particular. They like power. They're reckless. They dislike the Alliance.

Worth noting that in The Shattering, the blood elves were rooting for Garrosh in his duel with Cairne, and Baine assumed that they would ally with Garrosh over him if Garrosh was in on Cairne's assassination.
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85 Blood Elf Mage
4230
...

Guys.

See the topic title?
Do you see any mention of Varian, Garona, Moira, or any of the other characters you've been discussing for the past page?
No?

Get back to Blood Elves. :P

On topic;
I'm still of the opinion that, aside culturally fitting in (and fitting in from a "feel of the questing experience" standpoint), a major factor leading to the Blood Elves joining the Horde was that the Alliance had taken in their High Elven kindred. That is bound to create a lot of bitterness towards the Alliance, given the levels of hatred and distrust between the two sides.

The Alliance had taken in the exiles of Quel'thalas, who the Blood Elves viewed as weak and traitors. The High Elves would have been telling the Alliance how evil, capricious, and fel-tainted the Blood Elves had become.
I'd say that would be enough to drive a pretty major wedge between any attempts by the Blood Elves to join the Alliance.
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100 Human Mage
12120
...

Guys.

See the topic title?
Get back to Blood Elves. :P


C'mon, Vaeth, the story forum is infamous for topic drift! We start talking about the realities of a demand economy in modern Ogrimmar and a couple of pages later we're talking about whether Deathwing prefers loganberry or strawberries on his waffles.

...always the waffles...

*Twilight Zone music*

I'd say that would be enough to drive a pretty major wedge between any attempts by the Blood Elves to join the Alliance.


Honestly, after the Second War I would be surprised if many people in the Alliance would even want the Blood Elves. It wouldn't shock me if there were a lot of Second War vets (or their families...and why does Second War have the same abbreviation as Stormwind? *grumbles* Conspiracy!) who curse Quel'thalas as fair-weather allies.
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